The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Colorado's non-resident license allocation sucks!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Didn't draw a unit 61 elk tag again. Had 18 preference points. The bad thing is you can expect to shoot a 280-300" bull in this unit. YOU WILL NEED AT LEAST 19 POINTS TO MAYBE KILL A 300" BULL. THAT'S PATHETIC!!!!!!!! | ||
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One of Us |
Not just pathetic for non res. I'm a resident and have drawn nothing again this year. I've been applying for Moose since before they invented Moose preference points (1986) and still waiting. Unit 61 has better Bulls than 300" but you have to get out of the truck to kill one. By the way how's the Elk hunting for 300" Bulls in Wisconsin? Pathetic? | |||
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one of us |
It's a helluva lot better than what New Mexico offers non-residents. Oh by the way, you can still hunt elk in Colorado each and every year with an over the counter tag. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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| One of Us |
I've done the over the counter tag. Way to many hunters. The problem with Colorado is they changed the rules in the middle of the game. The first change was the Ranching for Wildlife rule. Next was the number of nonresident tags issued in the tough draw units. I'm all for the resident having better draw odds. I should have been given the option to get all my prefence point money back when they changed the rules. I know the residents bitch about all the nonresident hunters. I'm wondering how much of the Game and Fish budget is supported by nonresidents. | |||
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| One of Us |
By the way, I did talk with the biologist from that unit and yes there are bigger bulls in the unit. The average bull killed is a 280-300. | |||
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| One of Us |
The preference point only costs you 3.25$ per year unless thats different for Non res? Rough math says thats about 66 bucks over the last 18 years. Not bad compared to states like New Mexico, Arizona you have to buy a non refundable license to get points like $150 year or something. Colorado is a pretty good deal for everyone in that respect. Just so you don't feel alone my brother didn't draw elk this year either, he's at 21 points now. | |||
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One of Us |
It is what it is. Evidently if a person did not get drawn, there were not near as many people boycotted Colorado over the new gun laws that claimed they would. Non-Residents griping about not drawing a tag in a certain unit, while there are probably units around the state where it would not require near as many points to draw, but those units don't average bulls with a certain level of B&C points Residents gripe because non-residents either come into a unit and spook everything out or hire a guide/outfitter that thru various methods try to limit residents access on to areas of Public Land. There is no perfect system that will please everyone, someone will always feel that they are getting screwed over. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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| One of Us |
I believe it's $55 or $60 for a nonresident point. The deal for me is they changed nonresident licensing after I had 7 or 8 points built up. Had I known, I wouldn't have put in the money for points. | |||
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| One of Us |
So, what else is new? Stop bitching and go hunting. You can't eat the ANTLERS. | |||
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| One of Us |
What's pathetic is someone who chooses to live in Wisconsin then bitches about Colorado not giving them a tag. Poor baby, sucks when you don't get what you want. Let me guess, it's too much work to move to Colorado? Too much effort to apply in other elk states? Too much beer money to drive to Idaho and buy a bull tag over the counter to go hunt a maybe 300 bull? | |||
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| One of Us |
There are bigger bulls than 300-320 in unit 61. Several in the 370-380 range over the years, never heard of a 400 bull though. I've seen at least 8-10 bulls that would net BC since I began hunting there 30+ years ago. And to address the topic the non res allocations are more than fair. Quit whining. | |||
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| one of us |
Actually, it costs a maximum of $38 for a point. $3 application fee, $10 habitat stamp and $25 for the preference point. And, $25 of this can be waived if you meet certain criteria. Finally, they just implemented this new $25 fee a few years ago. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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| One of Us |
Thanks for all the idea's especially "Navaluk". I think I'll pull up stakes and move to Colorado so I can hunt elk and drink more beer.  | |||
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one of us |
Results are no suppose to be posted until 5/24 | |||
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| One of Us |
I think most of you are missing the "Big picture". This time of year there is a big run on "bitching posts", folks that didn't draw and don't matter, Res or non-Res. Rotten No Good, Sums ah Beaches, won't give me a tag, couldn't run a game dept.... Everybody else is so pissed off they didn't draw either and the feeding frenzy is on... I know I'm damn sure guilty of "jumping aboard" the Chit storm Express or Ranting a bit. Sucks having to stand in line and wait your turn for something that drives us out of our ever loving minds, The primordial Chase. Don't know why I thought I needed to pass this on cause I'm so bored I could use a ride on the Chit Storm Express just for the stimulation. But there you have it Safe travels | |||
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| One of Us |
Yeah, you're out around $150 for 20 years of applications. Out more mental anguish, but that is life. I feel worse for the 20 year old guy with 8 points. What about the guy starting out now. Not a chance of drawing that kind of tag until he is 60+ or dead. Why states give preference to guys who have points, when the tags are tougher than 1-40 odds, is stupid. Plain and simple idiocy. There are units in Utah with odds of 1 in 300. Guys with the most points get half the permits. The rest of the people have odds of 1 in 300. 90% will NEVER have the permit, but all applicants within a few points of the top will. Freaking FOOLISH. | |||
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| One of Us |
Weighted lottery. Everybody has a chance. 20 points 20 chances. | |||
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One of Us |
This is the route I took this year for deer and elk but you do still have to pay the full price for the tags then you are reimbursed less the $3 and the $10 and the point fee of $25 after the draw even if you opt for only the point Hey but it isn't that complicated to do and it is the best way to control hunter densities ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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| One of Us |
Start putting in for unit 76. Bigger bulls and a lot more elk. You will draw with those points and you won't be disappointed. I have hunted there once and saw at least 30 6x6 in the first three days. | |||
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| One of Us |
Chuckmaxman - Brother, I'm all for non-residents hunting CO. Ya, the system sucks - but its not really the system, its the fact that we have a limited resource, and a whole lotta folks wanting a piece of it. I agree that they "changed the game" on non-residents, both with the RFW, and lowering non-res tags, but that was directly related to "whining" residents - go figure. Same as with every state. But truly, the part of the system that sucks, and the ones really getting screwed are the landowners of this state. Now there's a system (the landowner voucher system) that really sucks!!!! Anyway, JMO. | |||
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| One of Us |
Should be plenty of tags in Colorado since everyone is boycotting the state. | |||
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One of Us |
Being a whiny Colorado resident, we have to pay state income taxes, have to deal with our ridiculous legislature and their gun laws. In my opinion, we should pay much less for hunting tags and in my opinion get preference over non-residents for draws. If our state sucks so much please boycott us and draw in Montana or somewhere else. If I want to hunt brown bear in Alaska, I have to hire a guide. It's their state and their rules. I don't have to like it or hunt there, but if I want to hunt brown bear in Alaska as a non-resident I have to abide by it. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| One of Us |
Oh yes, I really believe that   ! I have a hunch a bunch of folks put in for tags just because they took that Boycott for a fact. Figured they would have a better chance of getting a tag.Me and a guy on another site have an argument on hold concerning the boycott I think he actually believes that enough hunters are going to boycott Colorado that it will make them regret passing the gun laws. I really don't think that he and probably a few others understand that while some folks will be patriotic and try and teach Colorado a lesson, a whole bunch more folks are going to view it as a possible window of getting to finally draw a tag. JMO. We are waiting for the figures come out after season so we can compare license/tag sales and overall hunters numbers, pre gun laws and post gun laws. I could be wrong but I seriously doubt the "Boycott" is going to have measurable impact. Again that is just my opinion. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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| One of Us |
If you really want to talk about Colorado changing the game look at Moose draws for example: When I first started applying for Moose in about 1986 it was luck of the draw, NO preference point system, after we did that for many years they decided to start awarding points so many many more people jumped in the game for the point, the drawing points were "capped" at 3 for many years all the while hundreds if not thousands of people "caught up" all ended up with 3 points, then they said we will continue to leave you capped at 3 points and begin awarding "weighted" points. So here I sit with 3 points and 13 weighted points. I've been applying for Moose for 27 years but am at the same "point" level as someone applying for 16 years. Fair, no but it is our system so I participate every year faithfully. It's not a perfect system but I'm having a hard time imagining a worse system.... | |||
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| One of Us |
How a state issues tags can be debated for ages. After living in Alaska for 35 years and putting in for about 5-6 tags each year and never been drawn for ANY tag I just gave up wondering what system might be the best. People who get drawn think the system is fair, people who don't hate it. Go figure. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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| One of Us |
Hey Chuck, we already do!!!  Residents like "me too", pay roughly 10% of the cost a non-resident pays for deer/elk tags, etc. And of all the limited draw permits, 60% - 80% of them go firstly to Residents, depending on the points required to draw the tag. Not sure what point you were making? | |||
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| One of Us |
Stop for just a minute and think of the alternatives. A person can save the time trouble and effort and book with an outfitter in Canada, but that takes away the D-I-Y concept. A person can buy a hunt on a high fence property somewhere around the country, but again, something is lost. Do some residents of the mountain states have feelings of animosity toward non-resident hunters, yes, no doubt about that. However from some of the stuff I have witnessed over the years, I can understand why residents of the various states have those feelings. One thing however does not change, and that is the fact that NO ONE is forced to get involved in the draw process! The individual gets involved all on their own. No arm twisting is done, no guarantees of being successful in the draw are made, it is the individuals choice on whether to get involved are not. I made a post on here a few months back complaining about the continuing increases in the cost to participate in the draw, but my annoyance at the price increase did not stop me from sending in my application or the necessary funds. Also the supposed boycott by non-resident hunters had no influence at all on my decision to apply for a tag. I want to hunt elk again, even if it is a cow and Lora and I have good friends in Colorado we want to visit with. If you don't like the way Colorado DOW does business, take your business elsewhere. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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| One of Us |
Lot of truth here.A guy is better off to save the dough and go to Alberta and having a chance at a real Buster Elk or Muledeer.Sure I like DIY hunting.I also once in a while crave shooting a Monster whatever!!!! | |||
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| One of Us |
Well since I agree with you, now I'm not sure either lol ...  good, successful and safe hunting all wherever you go ...Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| One of Us |
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One of Us |
This is the reason why I would never try to acquire a bunch of points. When you put in for the most publicized and popular units its damn tough to draw. Fact is, you can still hunt CO every year and still get your PP. I know of some fantastic bulls that come out of OTC units every year and I know of multiple 350"-380" bulls that have recently come out of units that are either OTC or require less than 2 points to draw. To say that the system sucks when the opportunity is there and you choose to not hunt isn't quite a fair statement IMO. I hear guys bitching about having never drawn a sheep tag but they always put in for the most difficult units. They could have drawn 2 sheep tags in less popular areas but they make the choice to apply knowing full well the odds are not in their favor | |||
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| one of us |
Colorado is just about the only western state with something for everybody. Over the counter tags, outfitters with tags and long-shot draws for the very desirable slots. Unfortunately there is no way to please everybody. | |||
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| One of Us |
Graybird, I don't know about NM not giving non-residents a fair shake. Last year there were 16 bighorn sheep tags. 15 of them went to non-residents!! Chuckmaxman, NM does not have a points system. What are you refering to?? | |||
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| one of us |
That's a straigt head's up draw, which doesn't allocate X% for resident and Y% for non-resident. How about we discuss the percentages allocated for NM elk for resident versus non-resident, since the CO elk is what started this thread? If I'm not mistaken, the non-resident allocation without the use of guide is a phenominal 6%. Colorado's allocated percentage for non-resident elk hunters is higher than 6%. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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| One of Us |
This looks like it is changing and rightfully so. | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't know what he said.....but seeing as the size douchebag he is, I would imagine it was consistent with same. That being said.....tough to draw means tough to draw. Ask Maine residents that have been trying to draw a moose permit for 30 years.....and the things are everywhere! I've applied as a resident here in NH since '05 and not a whiff yet. Sucks, but why punch yourself in the nose about it? | |||
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| One of Us |
Graybird, Per the current NM Dept of Game and Fish website: Public Draw Licences 84% NM residents 10% residents and non residents that contract with a NM registered outfitter. 6% non residents that contract with a NM registered outfitter. It is just hard to draw a license anywhere now. | |||
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| one of us |
I think the biggest complaint is the 10% going to the non-residents who are willing to pay for an outfitter, leaving only 6% for the DIY guys and gals. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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| One of Us |
The 10% allocation to the guides is for resident and NRs combined and the 6% max is for NRs who prefer to DIY, not what impala posted. | |||
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| one of us |
I've been hunting CO as a non-resident since 93, and for three years as a military 'resident'. There are plenty of over-the-counter areas you can hunt and not run into a crapload of other hunters...just follow one rule. If you can drive a 4-wheeler there...keep going. Hunt the thousands of acres of wilderness and limited access areas and you'll see the crowd disappear. Will you shoot a 300" bull every year, hell no, but I've seen them, and have seen a couple 330+ pulled out of those areas. I'm not picky as I really do like eating elk meat and won't pass a decent bull, but I have filled my elk tag most every year when hunting with a rifle...bow is another story but I've done OK with that too. Shoot straight, shoot often. Matt | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Colorado's non-resident license allocation sucks!
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