The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting 30.06, 300 WSM, or 300 WM?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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First, Happy New Year to everyone (as of 28 min. ago). My air force friend wants to put in for antelope with me in WY. We also have a couple of other things lined up that may happen depending on whether or not he gets transferred to Iraq. Ok, he does not own a rifle and has asked me twice via email about the venerable 30.06 vs. the 300 WM. I really picture him as a ONE rifle guy so whatever he gets will most likely be it for at least a decade (when he's done serving). I sent him some info on those 2 and in addition, the 300 WSM. I've owned 2 of the win mags and one 30.06 which I still have and it is definitely one of my favorite rifles of all time. Lets just say that the largest game he'll ever hunt will be elk. He would love to do an elk hunt, mulie, antelope, and eventually some bears (black), cougar, caribou. After several discussions it appears that he would like a "one gun, one bullet, do all combo." He's shouldered a couple of Wal Mart Remington 710s (on sale with a scope for about 300.00). I know nothing of this rifle, whether it can be customized in the future, etc. Don't know how it compares to the regular 700 action. I told him I'm not a fan of "cheap" rifles regardless of brand but he's on air force salary with a wife and 4 kids. Anyway, the brand isn't the issue, I'll work on that. What say you to the 3 given choices? Of course they all will work for his purposes. I would just like a collective opinion on what YOU all like and why. Then I'll email him this link and let him read. Thanks! Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | ||
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Let me be the first to wish you and everybody here a happy New Year! I still have 14 minutes to go here. Also let me be the first to vote for the 30 06. I own six, and wouldn't trade any of them off. I also have three 300wm, and like them, but the '06 has been around too long to ignore, and when all the others fade away, it will still be going strong. Still the best all around caliber IMHO. Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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I guess I should also mention that he would be VERY interested in buying a good used rifle if anyone is selling. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I guess I would put a vote in for the 30-06 as well. I own one 30-06 and a 300 wsm, I personally prefer my own 300 wsm over the 30-06 do to accuracy. I am not saying that the 300 wsm always beats the 30-06 but right now my 300 wsm CZ Model 3 comes out on top of the Ruger m77 tang safety 30-06. A 300 winmag is a good rifle as well but the 30-06 is definitely the economical choice of the two. Also a 300 winnie is overkill on antelope, does the job but definitely more than is needed. The 30-06 will take anything in the Western Hemisphere just fine. If I was you I would steer him away from that 710 though. You can get a Savage 110 with a blind magazine and maybe a scope for about the same price I believe and it will be twice the rifle. I have played with those 710's and don't trust them. I have a friend who has one and thinks it is just fine, not good fine. Kind of a similar situation as your friend except he just got out of the Navy. I have seen it shoot and I think he is lucky to hit anything at all. "I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me." -- General George S. Patton | |||
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I have nothing against the 30-06 what so ever, and it'll do everything you're asking. BUT, there is nothing wrong with having a little more reach, especially in the case of antelope out on the windy plains. I'd opt for a 300 Mag, and since he is not a handloaded, see if he can find Federal ammo with a 165 gr TSX or maybe the 180 MR-X. Either of these bullets will pack enough punch for elk, but also carry enough zip to make a flat shooting to 400 yard combo. Another possible idea...I just read about Remingtons new "multi task loads" in 300 RUM. You can buy power levels 1, 2 and 3. 1 would be lighter bullets with 30-06 numbers, 2 would be with medium bullets at 300 win mag numbers (a good all around choice IMHO) and 3 would be heavy tough bullets at full bore 300 RUM. Recoil is supposedly on par with matching numbers, so the level 1 kicks like the 06. Amazingly, these all pretty much print the same point of aim, no matter the load and without rezeroing the rifle. For someone like your buddy with a situation of a 1 gun for all....this might need some consideration If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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I have owned all three calibers, and I will cast my vote for the 300 Win Mag. I love the '06 and am a huge fan of the WSM, but for a "one gun", I would get the 300 WM. It may be "overkill" in some circumstances, but the ammo will be available anywhere and can be loaded up or down with a wide range of bullet weights. | |||
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Another vote for the -06. In the long term your friend will probably spend much more time hunting smaller animals than elk. The -06 will take most if not all game on this continent with less muzzle blast and recoil. Ammo is less expensive using 150 or 165 gr bullets. If he ever goes after elk, he can resight using 180 gr or heavier. Also, a once-in-awhile hunter should probably not be taking shots much beyond 200 yards. The -06 will fill this need very well. "Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult." | |||
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06 is great. 300 WM is just a little better. He'll be very happy with either rifle. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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If he's only gonna have one rifle, the 710 is not the one to get. Have him get a 30-06 in a CDL. Nice looking rifle that taken every head of game in the new world. And in the scope department, bigger is not better. A 3x9x40 or a 2x7x38 in Leupold will last him a life time and do everything he needs to do. | |||
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I'd go with the 300 WM as well. He's listed some bigger game on here and he'll need the bigger punch than perhaps the WSM will offer. Don't worry about the overkill. If he shoots it where he wants he might only damage the shoulder - not exactly the prime piece of meat. | |||
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.30-06 Happy New Year to all!  | |||
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338 win not on the list but with the new 160 gr ttsx and tsx at 200 gr also great partitions at 250 it is the best one rifle for north america VERITAS ODIUM PARIT | |||
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Doc, After wishing you and yours a happy new year I am going to be blunt. Anyone who looks at a Rem..710 twice does not have a clue about machinery, rifles or who knows what. The 710 Remington is one of the cheapest pieces of junk ever made. It ranks with the Mossburg ATR below the bottom. For value today in a big game rifle I like the Ruger Hawkeye's. Keep in mind that even the 30-06 kicks pretty hard so if your friend cannot work around that he may flinch let alone with a magnum. Let him pick the cartridge but tell him about the recoil. Then whatever he gets he is going to have to work it out. | |||
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The 300 Winchester would get my vote. Out performs them all. If you handload it is very easy to exceed factory performance levels. The 30-06 and 300 WSM will get the job done but they will never be a 300 Win Mag. If you really want 30-06 or 300 WSM performance load the 300 Win down to those levels. Stay away from the Remington 710. It is absolute junk! Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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Good choice and right on about scopes. Also check the on-line used gun sites - gunbroker, gunsamerica, and auctionarms. You can find very good deals on quality rifles like Husqvarna for $400 or so. "Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult." | |||
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The .300 Win mag would get my vote, but I wouldn't give a dimes worth of difference between it and the WSM. My old Winny is a post 64 Model 70 that shoots a 180 grain North Fork 3100 fps with one hole accuracy for me my son and grandson. The 30-06 will not do that, the WSM will come close. He could find the post 64 Model 70 for a song on any of the gun buying sites and it would beat the hell out of the 710 now and forever. Just my .02 worth. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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I used to be a .30-06 fan or a .280 Rem fan until I started shooting the .300 Win Mag. I like it better and it seems to hit harder. This is one of those decisions where no matter what, you cannot make a bad decision. | |||
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I can echo the 710 comments above. It is junk. I shot one in 300 WM and everything about it screams cheap. The scope (from the Wal-Mart package) is very poor. I would pick a 300 WM if given my choice. I just like the extra punch it carries. One thing though, you'll always be able to find 30-06 cartridges anywhere that sells ammo. I don't yet, but plan to own both. | |||
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I have a 300 WSM and 2 300 Win Mags, all model 70's and all three shoot very small groups. I like the 300 WSM because it is a compact lite rifle. If weight isn't an issue the 300 Win Mag is all anyone would need for the game listed. Hawkeye47 | |||
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If recoil sensitive, the 30/06 would be the way to go; if not, I would choose the 300 Win. Mag. of the choices given. Actually, I would prefer the 300 Weatherby Mag. but that wasn't one of the choices considered. | |||
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I spent 11 years "in" and know what he's dealing with for $$$. I think he could do a lot worse than a 300WSM in Weatherby Vanguard and a reasonable scope from Wally-World. That was my first medium bore bolt gun and it's a good combo. I still have it and it's not for sale.  | |||
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"Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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I say 30-06.He could get a Savage reasonable.Just talk him into a better Scope!!!! OB | |||
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There is no way to salvage a 710 that has a barrel problem. The barrels are permanently pressed into that action not screwed in. Shooting the barrel out in any of your suggested calibers is not really a serious concern. But there are honestly more ways to screw up a barrel than shooting it out. If that happens to a 710, the rifle's life is officially over. With the newer higher velocity loadings available for the 30-06 it comes darn close to approaching 300WM and 300WSM performance. Out to 400yds the differences are such that if you'd miss with one you'd miss with the other. Overall the 30-06 is a cheaper rifle to feed with factory fodder and will just plain work. The Tikka T3 and Weatherby Vanguards are worth him looking at. I really like the 300wby. It's a great cartridge. I just don't think a "one gun" guy on a budget is gonna like paying for factory loads in it. He should buy the rifle now. Save up and buy a good scope when he gets back. | |||
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1 gun = 30-06, 1 load Barnes 165/168 grn TTSX Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Another vote for 30-06. Also, another caution on the Remington 710-- very poor quality. | |||
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This is good feedback. You all know it's one thing to get advice from one or two guys you know, it's a whole different thing when you get experienced hunters from all over who've hunted more game than just a deer or antelope. I emailed him the string so far. He said that talking with some of his military buddies that the .06 seemed to be very popular. I agree with the comments about the 710. These rifles are priced accordingly obviously. If I cannot convince him to put a little more money into it, I will also advise he go with the Savage. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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First, the .30-06 is by far the best choice when economy is important. I have to assume that he will be shooting factory ammunition, and .30-06 is half the price of the magnums. Besides, it will kill any elk just as dead, and shoot any antelope just as far as one of the pricier magnums. Second, have him cruise the pawn shops and look at used rifles. A bunch of them come in just after hunting season, and by mid-spring (still plenty of time before hunting season), the non-redemptions will be on the shelves and the shop owners will be eager to cut a deal on a gun that will otherwise sit there for several more months. Third, the scope is as important as the rifle. The best performer for the money is a $200 Leupold VX-I. It will also hold its value and be worth 80% of what he paid if he wants something else later. He might find a good used scope at a pawn shop also, and with a Leupold, if there is something wrong with it he can send it to the factory for free repairs. | |||
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I usually do not like to load ammo for anyone other than myself or my brother. I used to do it many years ago but our "group" has since dispersed over the years. I suppose, since I'll be the one taking him to the range and helping him get used to shooting, shooting positions, etc., I could load some ammo for him, so long as I had full control of the rifle and did all the shooting myself with test loads. Liability always lingers. I was thinking of the 150 accubond or 130 Barnes if he chose the .06. Even if I loaded him up 50 rounds, it would last him 10 years. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Just my not so humble two cents worth but it probably would have been nice to know just how much shooting experience your friend has, but since he does not currently own a rifle, I'll assume little or none. Now I own rifles in .30-06 and .300 Win. mag. and have a bit of working knowledge on the .300 WSM, at least at the range and in working up the loads for my ex-son-in-law's rifle. They are all great cartridges. My choice would be the 30-06, plain and simple. It has the least amount of recoil, is more than accurate enough, it wouldn't be all that hard to figure out one load to "do it all". Actually, my one load to do it al is two loads. For soft skinned game like deer I use the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter and for heavier stuff like bear and elk I use the 180 gr, Nosler Partition. I did the load work up with the Sierra, dropped back a grain and a hald and worked back up with the Nosler. Great serendipity as the same charge worked for both bullets and no change in sighting in was necessary. I've found this to work just as well in my .300 Win. Mag. Probably, for his purpose, a 165 gr. bullet with a standard cup and core for the soft stuff and the Nosler for the "heavies" would work just fine. It'd give him a bit more range as well. Most of the comments on the Remington 710 have been way too kind. I've helped newbies sight in a few on sighting in day at the range and in my not very humble opinion, they are a piece of shit. Paul B. | |||
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Correct, very little. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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If he is not experienced with rifles, I'm not sure I'd suggest he cruise the pawn shops or used gun scene. Those rifles were sold for a reason and sometimes it's a bad reason. Especially when you get into magnums. Being in the service does not make one an expert on used rifles. Especially when it comes to burnt out throats and shoot out barrels and such. Of course, I rather take my chances with a used, well cared for Remington 700 in 30-06 than a new Savage. | |||
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Just curious about something.........it seems to me like several of yall believe (for some odd reason) that the .300 WSM is not as powerful as the .300 Win. If you look at the ballistics of factory ammo, the WSM is slightly faster and has slightly more energy than the Win. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Thats the kicker for me to go to the .30-06. If he doesn't own a rifle then why start him out wiht something tha he potentialy can't handle? Everything he wants to hunt can be done with the 06. I don't like the fit and finish M710 rife and I think there was actually quite a few problems with them early on. Do your friend a favor if he wants a Remington steer him towards a M700. If you can find them a lot of stores are offering good deals on old stock of ADL rifles or the new SPS doesn't look to bad either. | |||
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I wouldnt trust a Remington 710 in any caliber.I have seen 6 or 7 of them totally mess up to where they were returned to Remington and replaced.I would buy a used Ruger model 77.You can get a good deal on a 300 win mag or my choice a 338 win mag.I think the 338 win mag is alot more versitile than the 300 win mag.I dont like the Remington sps eith remington chepo model 700. | |||
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if you air force buddy is an enlisted man, at or below the rank of e-5, and has anyone to support other than himself, let's assume he doesn't have a lot to spend. he should be able to get a remington 700 sps or adl at just about any walmart, as well as a savage, and he might want to splurge on a weatherby vanguard. these are all on the lower end of the price spectrum, and will last him his entire hunting career. regarding caliber, he will never regret getting a 30-06. tell him he can buy ammo anywhere ammo is sold, and it will easily kill anything he is likely to hunt. a good lower priced scope is a nikon buckmaster, but there are many otjhers such as the leupold vx1. | |||
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He's a Major. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I like the 30-06 as well. If I need more than that I bring out the 338 Win Mag; more than that, the 416 Rem Mag. Most everything else are "tweener" rifles. | |||
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I'd also like to add that I plan on encouraging him to not take any shots that cover more ground that what he AND his rifle are capable of doing, and having had demonstrated it at the range. i.e., he'll likely keep all shots at 350 and under. That is "the plan" anyway. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I would try to help your friend by a nice used 30-06. I feel his $ pain. My first "big game rifle" other than my 30-30 which I used for years, was a 700 in 7mm Rem Mag...bought and paid for with per diem money I saved by eating on the cheap while on TDY as a captain.  Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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