I saw this posted on another forum and thought I would share it here. I guess his DIY message does not resonate with these associations. I'm glad to see RMEF is standing by him.

http://onyourownadventures.com...wthread.php?t=253976

quote:

http://onyourownadventures.com...wthread.php?t=253976

The link didn't work for me.

Sorry, the link is working for me. Here is the first post in the thread from Randy Newberg:



Well, since the last four days of my life have been made very difficult by a few fringe elements in the Montana Outfitter and Guides Association (MOGA), I am going to post what has been going on. Makes me wonder if all the MOGA members know a few of their leaders are willing to use their organization to engage in their personal battles.

Seems MOGA is trying to split the hunting community and forcing RMEF to chose between guided hunters and non-guided hunters. Seems have me as one of the twenty-four board members of RMEF is more than MOGA can stand.

A few on the MOGA board are upset with my representation of our audience when testifying at the legislature, and the shrinking grip they have on the legislature. Appears desparate times call for desparate measures.

Below is an email that was sent to every RMEF board member and RMEF management. Also was sent to the state outfitter associations across the west, with WYOGA being the only other association who has joined MOGA.

This effort by MOGA prompted other emails and phone calls followed where outfitters informed RMEF of action if RMEF went forward with my nomination. Those threats covered the spectrum of pulling donations, not attending banquets, dropping memberships, etc.

This effort, an effort most would classify as extortion, seems to be the way the fringe operates these days. Personal agendas of a few within an organization allows them to go so far as to use RMEF and the RMEF mission as a tool of leverage to try take another whack at me and the viewers/readers I am asked to represent.

The good news is that RMEF has asked me to keep my position and continue advocating as I have in the past. They are not about to let any group hold them hostage. RMEF will not be drawn into attenpts by a few disgruntled outfitters who want to split the hunting world.

I have told RMEF that I have not yet finalized what I will do. The goal, mission, and work of RMEF is far more important than my board position.

Since this MOGA effort has now been spread across much of Montana, with my CPA clients and landowner friends being told of the MOGA plan with peculiar frequency, I don't have many options other than to speak out and start pushing back.

This has been going on since Wednesday. I have waited to post until now, though by Friday, I was getting calls from landowners and clients, asking what the hell was going on.

I waited for RMEF to digest what this was about and what was being asked of them. It became very obvious, very early, that MOGA had "stepped in it" by trying to extort RMEF. The reply of RMEF and their board makes me even more proud that they would ask me to be part of the Board of Directors.

For those of you who are as disgusted with the effort by MOGA, I hope you will give RMEF your support for not being held hostage by this group of fringe operators who have now gained control over the MOGA board of directors.

Looks like MOGA has taken the gloves off in their desparate and continuing effort to control the hunting of 180,000 hunters in Montana and the 195,000 members of RMEF. I am now taking my gloves off and rolling up my sleeves. Things are going to get real interesting, real fast.

If you are as tired of these continue attempts by MOGA to split the hunting community and drive a deeper wedge between hunters and landowners, I hope you will take actioin. Share this thread on as many websites as you can. Post a link on your Facebook page.

It is time to stomp out this craziness. Hopefully the many good guys within MOGA will read this and will ask some questions of how their organization was drawn into such a mess by a few in leadership positions.

Please let RMEF know how you feel about their decision. In today's world, when extortive tactics seem to be effective, RMEF stood tall and is supporting my nomination, thereby supporting the bigger goal of a united hunter community; thereby rejecting efforts of those who put personal agendas above the important work of conservation, habitat, and access, and most importantly, refusing to be held hostage.

More to follow. Lots more.

Quote:
From: MOGA [mailto:moga@mt.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:28 AM
To: montana outfitters and guides assoc.
Subject: RMEF Board Appointments

Individual Outfitters from several states have expressed concern over the possible appointment of Randy Newberg to the Board of Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Randy is a TV show host and has consistently projected a “do-it-on –your own” theme. However, Randy is affiliated with, and often represents one or more organizations that some perceive to be anti-outfitting/landowner often presenting the western Outfitting Industry in a negative light.

Montana based Outfitters, many of whom provide significant donations to RMEF that sustain the organization, are questioning the wisdom in this appointment. They have indicated they may withdraw donations to RMEF if the appointment goes through. It is our understanding that the appointment is not final and will not be until later this month.

Many have called our office asking how they make their views known to the leadership of RMEF. In response to that request I am providing the following email addresses. Please direct your individual comments to these leaders of RMEF.

John Cade
Outgoing chairman
jcaid@frontiernet.net,

Lee Swanson from WI
Incoming chairman
lee.swanson@crossplainsbank.com

Charlie Decker
crdlog@frontiernet.net .

Below are the RMEF Directors from the western states. We do not have contact information, however many of you will know these folks personally and it may be worth a call.

Dennis Radocha
Boise, ID

Chuck Roady
Bonners Ferry, ID

Keith Ward
Huson, MT

Glenda Wilson
Cody, WY

Terry Sweet
Grand Junction, CO

George McCoy, Ph.D.
Las Cruces, NM


Mac Minard
Executive Director
Montana Outfitters and Guides Association
5 Microwave Hill Road
Montana City, MT 59634
406 449-3578 office
406 439-2059 cell
moga@mt.net
www.montanaoutfitters.org

The link is working fine and I'm glad you posted that up on this site as I was going to. I'm a regular on the OYOA website Randy owns and I also watch his great show on the Sportsman Channel. He's a class act and MOGA has made a big mistake putting their letter out opposing Randy as a Board member. RMEF is standing behind Randy and a lot of the members on his site are joining, renewing, or upgrading their RMEF memsberships because of this, as well as writing RMEF to let them know we appreciate their stance.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
The link is working fine and I'm glad you posted that up on this site as I was going to. I'm a regular on the OYOA website Randy owns and I also watch his great show on the Sportsman Channel. He's a class act and MOGA has made a big mistake putting their letter out opposing Randy as a Board member. RMEF is standing behind Randy and a lot of the members on his site are joining, renewing, or upgrading their RMEF memsberships because of this, as well as writing RMEF to let them know we appreciate their stance.

I have always enjoyed his show as well. Why they would oppose is a mystery; he did a show where he had an AZ elk tag and he ate it - and not because he was shooting monsters. If anything, his show often highlights the value of a guide.

Everything always comes down to money


"On Your Own Adventures" has attempted to carve out a unique niche in a noisy, crowded field — hunts that the average guy can do. Newberg, 46, of Bozeman, plans all of his hunts on public lands with no guides. - Billings Gazette

Maybe he is being blamed for poor sales amongst the Montana Outfitters?

Jim

conflict of interest, why appoint the fox to gaurd the hen house?

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
conflict of interest, why appoint the fox to gaurd the hen house?

Could you please explain what in the haydes you mean by that statement?!!!

I know I'm going to draw some flack here but I don't care for the guy's show or the way he pushes it. AAW and I have discussed this previously as we have different takes on it. Our disagreement over Newberg has been very respectful however in that we simply interpret the show differently.

First of all, the show has very little content in that there is maybe 2 or 3 minutes of actual hunting, with those segments replayed as many as 8 times in the episode. Most of the remaining time is taken up by Newberg speaking to an "off camera" interviewer. But what I dislike is his statement to the effect that "The do it yourself hunter is the REAL American hunter" as if using a guide from time to time makes you less of a REAL American hunter. I do a lot of DIY hunts but use guides from time to time as well. It all depends on the situation. For me, his statement is a put off in the same way we often see here on AR about how one guy pronounces HIS method of take as hunting, and anyone else's is not actually hunting at all. It drives an unnecessary wedge between us hunters as a group and that is something we do not need. I suspect the organizations objecting to Newberg are taking a similar view of his divisive message.

Just to make the point that I'm not simply railing against DIY hunts as again, that's what I do most often, let me say I much prefer the way the Eastman's go about promoting it. Their show simply explains how they are able to help you seek areas and tags to conduct your DIY hunt on public land without driving that wedge of identifying themselves as "THE REAL AMERICAN HUNTER".

Just my 2 cents guys.

I think The folks from Montana have already expressed their opinions of MOGA.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I think The folks from Montana have already expressed their opinions of MOGA.

Yep, and it ain't good! Randy is about as down to earth a guy representing us average Joe hunters as you can get. His show is set up to show how the average guy can do many different hunts on public ground without paying a fortune for a guide or to a landowner or outfitter to hunt on all that land, both private and public, that they have locked up. The show is doing very well and he will be taking it to a different level under a different name next season. The fact that many times he comes home empty handed is also the reality that most of us that hunt public land face and why his show is so well liked. It's no wonder that MOGA and it's members are upset because the better his show does in showing how we can do cheap hunts compared to what outfitted hunts cost he won't be liked by them because it takes money out of their pockets. Hunting is now an "industry" and God forbid if that industry is slowed down a bit by the truth!!! Their tactics now about pulling funds from RMEF and dropping out will not be taken lightly by the majority of everyday hunters that make up RMEF and they literally shot themselves in the foot when they put that letter out with their threats.

I also have to laugh at the mention of the Eastmans and their show where they are stressing "DIY fair chase hunting" and "doing it the Eastman way". In case you all haven't noticed, the shows they are doing the last few years are predominantly on private ranches with landowner tags, etc. and a number of the shows have guides right with them on their hunts, especially the Colorado elk and mulie hunts. That's easy to see because they plug the places at the end of the show in their credits every week! Many of their shows are a far cry from their philosophy of hunting like the average guy with an OTC tag or general tag that anyone can obtain easily. At least Randy is hunting in the way he professes, rather than the way they are doing and basicly pushing the limits with their "DIY" and "no fences" statements! Obviously the reason they do that is that the shows they are competing against are shooting big animals mostly on private properties and they have to keep up with the Jones or fail. That's what's great about the show Randy does because he isn't relying on killing stuff every week to stay afloat. I do subscribe to both of the Eastman magazines as they have great articles/photos by the everyday hunter similar to what Randy is doing and their MRS section in the back of each magazine is very handy.

RMEF needs MOGA $$ why insult them with Randy? If MOGA wants to pull their funding it's their choice and I support them. I'd say I've made about 65:11 DIY to guided in Mont., Wyo., Colo. and Utha over the years and the RMEF has put their $ behind the elk herd in Pa. where I live. But when it comes right down to it the RMEF is little different than anyother business...keep your funding base happy and prosper, piss them off and go begging for funds.

Those who refuse to admit there's an innate conflict of interest between outfitters and DIY hunters are fooling themselves.

Outfitters are businessmen looking to protect and expand their bottom line. Citizens that want to hunt without an outfitter are fighting for the right to continue to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
RMEF needs MOGA $$ why insult them with Randy? If MOGA wants to pull their funding it's their choice and I support them. I'd say I've made about 65:11 DIY to guided in Mont., Wyo., Colo. and Utha over the years and the RMEF has put their $ behind the elk herd in Pa. where I live. But when it comes right down to it the RMEF is little different than anyother business...keep your funding base happy and prosper, piss them off and go begging for funds.

Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about and Norton is spot on with his comments! The majority of RMEF members are individual DIY types just like the majority of people that hunt elk or any other animal in this country. If RMEF needed MOGA to any huge extent like you intimate, they wouldn't be standing behind Randy and his nomination to the Board while MOGA pulls their sorry tactics of threatening to pull out of the organization. Outfitters donate hunts for the banquets and you can bet your azz they use them as tax writeoffs, just like any other business. They will be cutting their own throats to do what they are threatening because they will lose a lot of business they might get at those banquets. IMHO outfitters may now be the biggest detriment to most people being able to hunt big game on a regular basis due to all the land they have tied up, including a lot of public lands that are within their leases. Add that to the fact that they are adamantly against corner jumping that would open up another 1 million acres of OUR public land and they are exactly what Norton stated! MOGA is already issuing statements that the letter isn't really what people are saying it is and are trying to back off a bad situation that they created for themselves!

The dispute with Randy Newberg / MOGA and RMEF is really a thinly disguised attack from SFW. The director of MOGA is also the President of SFW_MT.

Randy has been instrumental in calling out SFW for not disclosing and properly using the funds they receive from auctioning conservation tags throughout the west. SFW has a long history of trying to exclude DIY hunters, and last year the founder even called selling tags to the general public "socialism", and advocated auctioning every tag in the state to the highest bidder. When the real agenda of SFW was let out of the bag, they have seen a decrease in support.
SFW is going after Randy for his role in bringing this to light. Sportsmen across the west owe Randy a huge debt of gratitude. RMEF even published a letter calling out "conservation" organizations that aren't transparent.

I support Randy and RMEF. This is just another smear campaign of SFW through their shill on the MOGA board.
Bill

llamapacker---I didn't want to get into all the other specifics of what is behind this whole deal in my other post, but I'm glad you posted the other big aspect of what is really going on. SFW is going to fail in this attempt just like they failed in their AZ tag grab last year. People need to stay vigilant because that outfit is worse than PETA because they claim to represent average guys when their design is really to get all the premium tags in the hands of the wealthy in any way possible. Thanks!!!

Good news from RMEF Headquarters this afternoon with a great letter on this subject. Here it is in it's entirety:

TO ALL CONCERNED:

RMEF is an organization comprised of hunters and non-hunters who all have a deep passion for wildlife conservation. Recently an issue has arisen regarding the election one of our new Board members. The following will state our position on this issue.

RMEF is a diverse enough organization to allow for opinions/beliefs of all hunters and those non-hunters who support hunting as part of our conservation toolbox in this country. We support and work with private landowners, outfitters and do-it-yourself hunters alike; RMEF’s history speaks for itself on this issue. We intend to continue with these relationships.

Relative to the recent issue of Randy Newberg being selected for a RMEF Board seat, the leadership of the RMEF Board has notified Mr. Newberg that we welcome him to the Board beginning March 3.

RMEF strongly believes that hunter vs. hunter confrontation is non-productive for the future of hunting and wildlife conservation.

Respectfully,


John Caid
Chairman, RMEF Board

M David Allen
President & CEO

Posted by Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation at 12:25 PM

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Outfitters are businessmen looking to protect and expand their bottom line. Citizens that want to hunt without an outfitter are fighting for the right to continue to do so.

I don't know Randy, or his show - never watch any of it other than TAA and 1 or 2 others. We did meet at the SHOT show last month as we were doing a photo shoot together promoting the Sportsmen's Channel line-up. He seemed nice enough.

As a guide/outfitter, and DIY hunter, I see nothing worse than the constant battle we see between the two, when it comes to these sort of things. Both have their rightful place, and I think its important to remember that hunting unlike gun ownership is not a RIGHT, but a privilege. So working together to protect the privilege of hunting, should be the primary goal.

quote:

Both have their rightful place, and I think its important to remember that hunting unlike gun ownership is not a RIGHT, but a privilege.

Not so some states have passed and inclued the right to hunt as a consitutional Amendment.

quote:

Not so some states have passed and inclued the right to hunt as a consitutional Amendment.

I could be wrong, but I believe that only applies to the Constitution of the individual states that have enacted the legislation and has nothing at all to do with the Constitution of the United States.

You are correct CHC!!! This outfitter vs. DIY is just another example of what CHC has preached about constantly in that we're our own worst enemy!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

As a guide/outfitter, and DIY hunter, I see nothing worse than the constant battle we see between the two, when it comes to these sort of things. Both have their rightful place, and I think its important to remember that hunting unlike gun ownership is not a RIGHT, but a privilege. So working together to protect the privilege of hunting, should be the primary goal.

In an ideal world with honest and forthright people you would be 100% correct.....but you and I both know that is not the case. Greed and avarice abound.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

As a guide/outfitter, and DIY hunter, I see nothing worse than the constant battle we see between the two, when it comes to these sort of things. Both have their rightful place, and I think its important to remember that hunting unlike gun ownership is not a RIGHT, but a privilege. So working together to protect the privilege of hunting, should be the primary goal.

In an ideal world with honest and forthright people you would be 100% correct.....but you and I both know that is not the case. Greed and avarice abound.

You'd be kidding yourself if you think that this pertains only to guides and outfitters.

Guides and outfitters are their own worst enemies but there are guys on the DIY side that are just as bad. It's a crying shame really

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Both have their rightful place, and I think its important to remember that hunting unlike gun ownership is not a RIGHT, but a privilege.

Not so some states have passed and inclued the right to hunt as a consitutional Amendment.

I would find that hard to understand/believe, as a right is generally something that "can't" be taken away (even though our current president would dis-agree with that).

I could see a state granting "hunting" as a general right to the state/its citizens, but not an individual's "right"? Evidence by the fact that one's hunting privilege's/ability to buy a license can be suspended/revoked at anytime.

Regardless, it would be best to see us all working together - rather than not.

Kudos to RMEF and Randy.

quote:

Originally posted by drummondlindsey:

You'd be kidding yourself if you think that this pertains only to guides and outfitters.

Guides and outfitters are their own worst enemies but there are guys on the DIY side that are just as bad. It's a crying shame really

No argument there.

Just an observation on my part, nothing more, but I believe that it is issues such as this, that will in the end accomplish what HSUS and PETA have been working for.

As a group, hunters, from what I have observed, only share the Desire to hunt, they do not as a group share the same attitudes/concepts/beliefs/feelings, as to what hunting is/how it is to be conducted/the differences between personal and group-subgroup ethics concerning hunting and other more intrinsic parameters. From personal observations, hunters as a group have moved from wanting to and being willing to share information/knowledge/experience, toward competiveness and viewing other hunters both suspiciously and critically.

All a person has to do is look at the various discussions on any of the internet sites/the articles that appear in the various magazines/the content of the various hunting shows on TV and or videos.

Hunting has became big business, for the Rocky Mountain states it is especially big. On one hand there is the Game depts. trying to manage the wildlife on smaller budgets, resident hunters feeling that "their" game is being stolen from them by both DIY and Guided Non-Residents, DIY Non-Residents believing that they are being shut out of Public Land by both Residents and Guides-Outfitters, Guides-Outfitters believing that the DIY Non-Residents are cutting in on/impacting their business, Guides-Outfitters fighting with each other over the available customer base.

Each group has its own agenda and in the end, it becomes detrimental to all hunters. This is just another chapter in the turmoil taking place among hunters, and all I see it doing is alienating folks.

Well, well, well... I get trashed for saying MOGA is a bunch of a$$holes and defending the rights of resident/DIY hunters to do what they want with their state's resources. Looks like the MOGA snake came out of the brush... And some of you want to blame Randy? Wow, what a convoluted pile of excrement.

Twenty plus years ago I told some of my friends in MOGA that if they didn't stop their policy of bullying and screwing the resident hunters with their efforts to tie up everything for their out-of state clients there would be hell to pay, I-161 was just the start of it, believe me...

As to the out-of-state jackwads that point the finger at resident/ DIY advocates and say " you people are doing more damage than PETA etc, we hunters need to stick together" you sound like OBAMA saying "the Republicans need to work with me." (Translation: "Drop your pants and let me have at it...")

Now, I understand, outfitting has become an INDUSTRY, not a part time cash cow for a few ranch hands like it was 40 years ago. But get real, THINK about this. If you loose the resident hunter as an advocate what do you replace him/her with? Your clients can donate all the cash they want but if you don't get the votes on election day or in legislative committee, you loose. Think lion hunting in California. Without block management here in Montana pacifying residents would outfitting still be legal or just even more heavily restricted/taxed/even higher fees etc? Not as far fetched as you might think.

Lock me and the other nearly 200K Montana resident/DIY hunters out and who will vote for or against the first of many anti-hunting referendums sure to appear on the ballot come election day? MOGA can testify all they want at legislative hearings but they represent the interests of only a handful of VOTERS compared to Montana Wildlife Federation or it's affiliated organizations, who do you think the legislators are more motivated to listen to? Granted they still don't listen well sometimes, that's what the referendum process is for and after the success of I-161 don't think those folks aren't thinking, hummm, what else would make it better for "our-side" of the fence...Yep your right it is an us vs. them thing, now, didn't use to be. Wonder how that got started. Wrong, it was not the residents that started it.

quote:

Originally posted by HunterMontana:
Well, well, well... I get trashed for saying MOGA is a bunch of a$$holes and defending the rights of resident/DIY hunters to do what they want with their state's resources. Looks like the MOGA snake came out of the brush... And some of you want to blame Randy? Wow, what a convoluted pile of excrement.


Twenty plus years ago I told some of my friends in MOGA that if they didn't stop their policy of bullying and screwing the resident hunters with their efforts to tie up everything for their out-of state clients there would be hell to pay, I-161 was just the start of it, believe me...

As to the out-of-state jackwads that point the finger at resident/ DIY advocates and say " you people are doing more damage than PETA etc, we hunters need to stick together" you sound like OBAMA saying "the Republicans need to work with me." (Translation: "Drop your pants and let me have at it...")

Now, I understand, outfitting has become an INDUSTRY, not a part time cash cow for a few ranch hands like it was 40 years ago. But get real, THINK about this. If you loose the resident hunter as an advocate what do you replace him/her with? Your clients can donate all the cash they want but if you don't get the votes on election day or in legislative committee, you loose. Think lion hunting in California. Without block management here in Montana pacifying residents would outfitting still be legal or just even more heavily restricted/taxed/even higher fees etc? Not as far fetched as you might think.

Lock me and the other nearly 200K Montana resident/DIY hunters out and who will vote for or against the first of many anti-hunting referendums sure to appear on the ballot come election day? MOGA can testify all they want at legislative hearings but they represent the interests of only a handful of VOTERS compared to Montana Wildlife Federation or it's affiliated organizations, who do you think the legislators are more motivated to listen to? Granted they still don't listen well sometimes, that's what the referendum process is for and after the success of I-161 don't think those folks aren't thinking, hummm, what else would make it better for "our-side" of the fence...Yep your right it is an us vs. them thing, now, didn't use to be. Wonder how that got started. Wrong, it was not the residents that started it.

Hey I back you %100 .Most of my hunts are DIY in Montana.I do how ever spend the nights in local motels,eat at local restaurants and cantinas and buy stuff at the local tourist traps.So I do contribute something to the local economy.But more than anything I value the friends I have made there.

[quote]Hey I back you %100 .Most of my hunts are DIY in Montana.I do how ever spend the nights in local motels,eat at local restaurants and cantinas and buy stuff at the local tourist traps.So I do contribute something to the local economy.But more than anything I value the friends I have made there.


***Ditto that backing him 100% and I've really only seen one post with a positive comment about MOGA so far!!!
HunterMontana---I only see your one post and no others like it appears you're mentioning talking about MOGA. Did you have a post beofre that on this thread that was deleted?

I've hunted MT DIY with my buds out there 7 of the last 8 years. I love the place and the people....salt of the earth. I plan on retiring there if I happen to be so lucky. Besides the $1000 for the big game combo I spend at least another grand on food, gas, beer, etc. every year.

This was my first post on THIS thread but, I've commented on MOGA and the resident vs outfitter non-resident, resident license fees vs. non-resident fees subject a couple of times before and been subjected to the usual vitriol from people who propose to know everything about Montana politics and problems. Interesting since they seem to live several states away and the cumulative time they've actually spent here "in the twenty some years they've been coming to Montana...bla,bla,bla" is less than the time I've spent hunting and fishing here in the last two or three years, not to mention the several decades preceding them.

I have no problems with non-resident DIY hunters and anglers here in Montana, I am as helpful as I can be, within reason, sorry but my favorite spots are popular enough. They are nice people and they do actually contribute to the states economy, not as much as some seem to think but its still money in. A lot of small motels and restaurants in rural areas do very well from DIY non-resident hunters, especially bird hunters.

A few years ago MOGA and FOAM (Fishing Outfitters Assoc of MT) got into a pissing match over who provided the most economic impact. At first glance it appears MOGA wins hands down based on price per week. Then those pesky account types started actually looking at the data.

Example: Guided hunter, picked up at the airport or maybe drives to camp, spends a couple of nights and a few meals in MT. Rest of the time IN CAMP, eating food purchased at Costco, I know because I did it, it's a business, bottom line matters, Costco is cheaper when you're feeding a bunch of people and prep-time is at a premium. After the hunt maybe another night at a motel and a couple of meals. Reason, guys don't bring their wives on hunting trips.

Guided fisherman, stays in motel whole time he/she is here, eats at various restaurants every night, brings wife, wife buys stuff, doesn't bring wife spends BIG at local bar! The survey found the economic impact of a guided fishing client was 7 times that of a guided hunter, even though their spending, as a whole, was nearly equal, fishing clients actually spend a bit more as a gross amount but spread out over several "venders". I suspect that DIY hunters and anglers probably have a much smaller but wider economic impact on a per capita basis but probably contribute more economically as a whole than either group of guided sportsmen.

I leave with one final thought: If most of the MOGA members are such nice guys why did they elect such jerks to represent them?

quote:

If most of the MOGA members are such nice guys why did they elect such jerks to represent them?

Not meaning to be contrite or a smart ass, but look who people elect to Public office, nationwide. It is a popularity contest nothing more.

Not meaning to take your statements off topic, but people vote for people that give the appearance of being popular and knowledgeable, that is life.

The main reason I do not belong to many organizations is because they want movers and shakers. Does not really matter that those folks are working with their own best interests at heart, they present the image of someone that is genuinely concerned. The aspect that basically kills most organizations, is politics. Anytime, any group starts excluding folks, for whatever reason, they are only concerned about what is in their best interest.

All organizations like the MOGA accomplish with stuff like this, is black their own eye and lose support. JMO.

When I went to MOGA and FOAM annual meetings only a fraction of the total membership showed up and nominated and/or elected officers. So, you have a point but, if an outfitter joined MOGA just for the discount on liability insurance maybe they need to pay just a bit of attention to what the public says about the representative organization they belong to and how the leadership of that organization presents their views. As my grandmother said, "You can tell a fellow's character by the friends he keeps.", or in this case the people they elect to represent them. All this means to me is that the "nice guys" in MOGA either agree with the jerks or don't give a ****. Either way, this is NOT good PR.

Very good points HM!!!

I like Randy's show, and appreciate the fact that attempts to demonstrate you can DIY. I hunt both ways, guided and on my own, but if I had better access and was a more skilled hunter, I prefer DIY. Good for RMEF for trying to keep both groups under the tent.