Atkinsons post is timely. I'm at risk of becoming the 2% that can't shoot - or to be more accurate (pun) can't shoot well.

I hunt a lot (UK - long seasons no tags). I have a well fitted rifle that's a muzzle heavy 9.5lbs with a great trigger, low mounted scope, suppressor (so very little recoil). I've used the same rifle for 11years and know it's trajectory. I shoot off sticks forom field positions with support (standing with right elbow resting on something or sitting/kneeling or prone over a pack) at stationary deer up to 250yards max. Deer can be small.

My problems - I find it extremely hard to squeeze the trigger, I've grown into a controlled flinch that is very hard to overcome.
As the shot approaches release my sight picture deteriorates with increased wobble.

I still kill a lot of deer but shots aren't great. Very very few misses just not great placement. I'm pretty deliberate but I'm generally shooting at aware deer as I hunt just about everything on foot and not from a stand.

The only thing I can think to do is to practice a lot with 22rf only.

Yes , start back at square 1 ,22lr.
You shouldn't think about trigger let off. Gradually increase pressure on the trigger till it goes off. The release point should not be a thought. Smooth is the term , it doesn't have to be slow.Hunting or combat can require a fast but smooth pull !

22lr, and practice a good bit on a blank , large target. Work on trigger control, not on hitting a spot.

I would disagree.

The worlds best shooters in positional shooting Tubb, uses a two stage trigger. You know in a two stage when exactly the trigger is going to go bang.

Not sure what kind of rifle you have put give a thought to trying a two stage.

Bix N'Andy make them for m700 Remingtons, Sako's, Blaser, Mauser 98, and a ton of other ones.

Tubb himself makes a two stage for 700s.

I have had a slug of custom 700 triggers; Jewell, Shilen, Timney, Huber, Extreme, and Bix. The two stage triggers are what you need.

Pellet rifles are excellent all so.

For practice I shoot off hand after that making a shot with any kind of rest is easy.

Before the 22rf shortage here I would shoot at 50 yards 4 inch round steel plates 50 to 100 rounds a week.

Have them on a swinging tree I just stand there knocking them back and forth.

Also had some 6 inch ones they were easy beans after the 4s

In addition to shooting a .22LR or a pellet rifle a lot, try spending five to ten minutes a day for two to three weeks dry-firing the rifle you flinch with.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
In addition to shooting a .22LR or a pellet rifle a lot, try spending five to ten minutes a day for two to three weeks dry-firing the rifle you flinch with.

Bill Quimby

Bill this is very good advice actually great advice.

When I developed a bad flinch after a couple of seasons of shooting 40 center-fire rounds every Saturday for eight weeks in the metalicas siluetas leagues in Sonora, Mexico, I switched from a .270 to a .243 and spent a lot of time dry firing. It worked ... eventually.

Bill Quimby

Do you wear hearing protection?
I have seen a lot of flinches start with inadequate or no hearing protection.

Have some practice sessions with a friend. Have them single loading your rifle for you. Instruct them to randomly leave the chamber empty. Set up to video yourself if you can, this will show you where you are going wrong. Using this method you will be able to fix your flinch quickly.

BWW raises a valid point with using a 2 stage trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by TREE 'EM:
Do you wear hearing protection?
I have seen a lot of flinches start with inadequate or no hearing protection.

+1, the only time I don't wear hearing protection is while big game hunting.

I developed a flinch from shooting next to people who use muzzle brakes.

I think TREE 'EM has the answer you need. I do quite a bit of shooting instruction for new and seasoned hunters alike and having someone else load the gun (or not - randomly) during practice is a cure for many problems. I'm continually surprised how quickly and easily that will fix various hiccups in someone's shooting. Obviously it might take more than one session of practice, but it's worth a try before your next hunt.

So the OP says he already had low recoil and noise w/ the suppressor use. It sounds more like target panic to me. Happens a lot in archery and there were all sorts of devices to try and correct it. I experienced it a bit with traditional archery. I know the feeling of trying to shoot but being unable to or struggling to squeeze the trigger. It's not about recoil or gun shy.

I think a good pellet rifle and use it to shoot small game/pests. Hopefully high volume. I shot very well as a new shooter in a rifle match years (service rifle) ago and I attribute getting my name on a few trophys due wholly to great trigger timing that I developed while shooting at starlings, blackbirds, rabbits and crows. With a Beeman HW97 in 20 cal. It did have a very good 2 stage trigger and I shot over 1000 rounds easily one summer, and mostly at critters.

I like a light single stage trigger(2 pounds max)This way when you squeeze the rifle goes off before you start twitching.I even go lighter for target or varmint hunting.My Grandson had a bad flinch from not wearing hearing protection.He wears electronic ear plugs now for hunting and has no problems anymore.I also use electronic hearing protection while hunting.Your ears are as important as your eyes for hunting.

Just a comment, nothing more.

Ever think about the possibility of over thinking the "problem"? We all approach shooting/hunting differently, from various observations over the years from people shooting at game to talking with folks about getting ready for a hunt or sighting in a new rifle or an old rifle with a new scope.

I personally tend to be a minimalist on most things and have been a life long disciple of the KISS(Keep It Simple Stupid) concept, but one aspect I see or hear too often deals with over emphasizing the Mechanics of taking a shot.

I do not expect anyone to buy into my madness, and in discussing it with folks over the years, many times folks begin looking at me sideways. I think in many cases people are simply overthinking the process of trying to make a "Perfect" shot, instead of just taking the shot.

I can't help but wonder if that "Personally Imposed Stress" to make the "Perfect" shot every time is not what causes some of this.

Like I say, this is just the ramblings of one Texan that views life and hunting on a simpler plane and I feel that too many people have bogged themselves down with technology and mechanics trying for some level of perfection that may be affecting their ability to just make a killing shot, that early on in their hunting career they would not have given a second thought about. JMO.

All of that controlled squeezing and associated tension that builds likely causes your sight picture to wander and induces the flinch factor, hence less than desirable shot placement. Learn to pull the trigger when on target. I'm a 'slapper' with light, well adjusted triggers. As soon as the cross hairs are in place, I shoot. Spending too much time on target just gives more chance for a fubar. I also tend to pull crosshairs down into my target and touch off as I come to my target. Keeps me from shooting high. We have always been taught to squeee but I find no real use for it in hunting.

And here I am thinking that I am the only one that does that.

Maybe it comes down to a case of either having trust or faith in the rifles performance, which should not change between shooting sessions/hunts as long as it has been sighted in with a particular bullet/load and that same exact loading is being used every time.

There are external factors i.e. weather conditions, changes in altitude that can effect a bullets flight path/effect its point of impact, but for anyone hunting in fairly normal/consistent conditions for the locality they normally hunt, shots should be routine from one time to the next.

I have my rifles sighted in at an accuracy level that works for me, and I loan rifles to clients from time to time and explain to them, that once they get the crosshairs on the point they want the bullet to go to, do whatever is necessary to may the gun go boom, and if they do that, the rifle and bullet will do the job they are supposed to do.

Again, I am a minimalist and I do not like using up any more powder or bullets putting holes in paper than necessary, and know and freely admit that if I make a bad shot on an animal it is MY fault, not the rifle or the bullet.

I have never had the flenches so can't offer personal advice. But when teaching folks how to shoot at the range or in the field, if the flench ever crept up, I would take the student over to the shotgun range for a day of shooting skeet, trap, 5 stand or sporting clays. After a day or two of 200 to 400 shots, the flenches seem to magically go away. If that doesn't work, try penicillin...

Never did any skeet or trap, but decoyed duck, some jump shooting quail and mourning dove shooting since 1967 seems to have worked on me in terms of not, for lack of a better analysis, not taking time to think about what I am doing when taking a shot with a rifle. Wing shooting or perhaps instinct shooting seems to help some folks.

I agree that dry firing is the answer. Also it is cheap (free) and you can do it in your house. Put a small spot on a wall or door down a hallway so you can get 40-50 ft of range then dry fire and concentrate on not having the firearm move from the target as the shot breaks. Do it 40-50 times a day and concentrate on not letting the sights come off the target.

Flinching is your brain anticipating noise and recoil.

To resolve this, you need to train your brain to ignore what is about to happen. I am in the camp of immersion - toss them in the water till they learn to swim. Translation - give your brain plenty of recoil and noise to calm down the anticipation. Or as Doctor Phil says, get over it, move on...

Many have offered sage advice to consider. All very well intended. Might I offer this saying that is not mine..."shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot more".
Try to remember brass...

Brass

B Breath
R Relax
A Aim
S Slack
S Squeeze

You will be just fine. Enjoy! MTG

The best cure I have seen for flinching is the coin on the barrel drill. It is for dry firing only but it will perfect your trigger control while shooting. You need to do this with a shooting buddy or a friend.

1. Take up a good position, i.e. sticks, prone, sitting, etc.

2. Have someone carefully place a small coin on the barrel near the muzzle. The coin will need to be balanced with a flat side on the barrel.

3. Take aim at an object, a small target on the wall works if indoors, and slowly fire the rifle. The objective is to be able to fire without making the coin fall.

You have to do this a few dozen times and repeat it over a period of days, but it will take care of the flinch and improve trigger squeeze to boot.

Best part about it - it costs nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by MTGunner:
Many have offered sage advice to consider. All very well intended. Might I offer this saying that is not mine..."shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot more".
Try to remember brass...

Brass

B Breath
R Relax
A Aim
S Slack
S Squeeze

You will be just fine. Enjoy! MTG

AND follow through.
What the OP may be experiencing is trying to see the impact on the target. Years ago when shooting IHMSA I used to practice alone most of the time. At one point my scores started declining dramatically until I realized I was lifting my head to see the impact on the target instead of following through. Once I found what the problem was I started dry fire practice which cured the problem.

All great advice. Dry firing is cheap and invaluable. A heavy trigger pull is your enemy. I know there's a lot different opinions on this but al our rifles have a trigger pull of right around 2 1/2 lbs.

Based on your post, you have the knowledge and the where to fore to make good shots..I don't think its your shooting style that's the problem..I've seen this many times and have never seen the problem addressed. I call it follow thru for lack of a better word..

I would bet dollars to donuts you instantly lift your head to see where the shot goes or if you hit the deer, its very subtle but it will cause a miss every time..Most don't even know they are doing it. Concentrate on keeping your cheek on the comb and maintaining a sight picture thruout the recoil as best you can..

Personally I have never seen shooting a 22 any help other than fun to shoot, As to conquering recoil and/or bad shooting, Trigger pull and concentration is the secret. Practice with you big game rifle until the problems fixed..Learn to shoot off hand, if you can shoot a 3 or 4 inch group at 100 yards offhand you can usually shoot from any position or under an condition.

However I cannot shoot off sticks, I just cannot and Lord knows Ive tried..A lot of PHs won't allow me to shoot off sticks but let me shoot off hand.???? even on running shots. Strange but a fact.

Start dry firing from ten feet or so and concentrate on staying on target and feeling when it goes click
Very good for handguns as well

Just curious here, but I have never really understood the whole "Dry Firing" concept.

Dry firing, does not give the shooter the actual feel of what happens when they pull the trigger and the gun goes bang and the recoil affects the shooter.

One concept that I do believe works, is to have another person load or not load the gun out of sight of the shooter.

Then the shooter sights in on the target, but is not sure if the gun is going to fire or go click on an empty chamber.

It is a goods method for detecting when a shooter has a flinch.

One issue I am finding difficult to understand with the OP, if the rifle has a suppressor, why is the shooter taking his head off the stock, instead of simply maintaining his hold and looking thru the scope?

quote:

One concept that I do believe works, is to have another person load or not load the gun out of sight of the shooter.

This!

Dry firing if done right will teach a shooter to hold the gun steady on the spot thru trigger pull and follow thru, that's the point of doing it.

Depends on where a person is, but, I don't think there's any better shooting practice anywhere as good as using the big guns on prairie dogs or ground squirrels. I've used Dad's 375 for it several times to learn the gun mostly and burn up older ammo too of course.

I have all my triggers set the same 3#, even revolvers. I'm too unsafe with a light trigger pull. 3# works perfect for me. I wouldn't have a two stage on my gun if you gave me the factory! I had 'em on the Enfield for years and never got used to them much. Then I fired a few decent guns with single stage and never went back. I have Timney's on all my hunting rifles.

Good thread. Go practice now.

George

Quick update - been hunting - part of the problem was a shift in zero from a loose base. Still need to concentrate on technique.

Ray is right - I've got in the habit of trying to shoot multiples and that does tend to destroy follow through.

I am an Olympic dry firer - doesn't seem to help. Had a failure to feed on reload and didn't flinch a mm yet in other occasions definately snatched.

Glad to read that you found the problem. Advice can be good and is cheap but it is always best if the person having the issue can figure out what is going on.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Just curious here, but I have never really understood the whole "Dry Firing" concept. Dry firing, does not give the shooter the actual feel of what happens when they pull the trigger and the gun goes bang and the recoil affects the shooter. One concept that I do believe works, is to have another person load or not load the gun out of sight of the shooter. Then the shooter sights in on the target, but is not sure if the gun is going to fire or go click on an empty chamber. It is a goods method for detecting when a shooter has a flinch. One issue I am finding difficult to understand with the OP, if the rifle has a suppressor, why is the shooter taking his head off the stock, instead of simply maintaining his hold and looking thru the scope?

Having someone load or not reload your rifle will tell you if you are flinching. Dry firing and shooting hundreds of rounds of low-recoiling calibers are curative measures, at least they were for me.

Bill Quimby

Like most things involving guns and the folks that shoot them everyone has their own routines or habits that work for them and may or may not work for someone else.

It does seem however, especially when shooting at game and something goes wobbly, miss/bad hit-long tracking job or totally losing an obviously wounded animal it rattles the shooter pretty hard.

Marines, who are noted for their marksmanship, spend days and days dry firing.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Marines, who are noted for their marksmanship, spend days and days dry firing.

Yes with two stage triggers!

Dry firing is the way to go. See this article.

Good article.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Marines, who are noted for their marksmanship, spend days and days dry firing.

Remember those days well. Was called snapping in. Qualified Expert, 2nd highest score in the platoon.

Semper Fi

On my hunting rifles, I keep my trigger finger alongside the receiver and when I see an opportunity to kill something, I bring the rifle up and as I acquire the target, my finger slides from the side of the receiver onto the trigger and I fire in a kinda smooth continuation.

so - what is the trigger pull currently on the OPs rifle. Might be an adjustment will make a big differance