My brother-in-law just called me yesterday, telling me about his sucessful elk hunt. He went hunting on a ranch in SW N.Dakota. He said he killed a pretty big elk.......About 900lbs. scored 398 points on B&C and a 50 inch spread at the beam. SO.........How big is this elk? FYI, He use a 270 gr. Swift A-Frame in a .375 H&H MOD 70 Stainless.

Yes, he's got pictures and some video, plus he's getting a full head mount. I maybe able to share with you all in the next couple of weeks as soon as he returns back to Juneau.

P.S. He (Bro-in-law) also mention something about bust'in a 1600 lbs asian water buffalo in eastern WA. with his 375. I'll share with you all later when I get more details.

A 398" bull is obviously a HUGE elk. That said . . . (and please don't take this personally) if he shot it on a fenced "ranch" of typically small acreage and minimal cover as he likely shot the water buffalo you mention, I'm not sure he should feel proud enough to mount it . . . except perhaps as a constant reminder of what NOT to do in the future.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

[ 01-10-2003, 23:17: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

Or what $6000 to $10,000 will buy you these days.

Yup, that's a big elk! I'm pretty proud of my 6x6 bull with just shy of a 52" spread too. Never got around to officially scoring the rack though. I estimate 330 - 350 based on my inexperienced measurements. Others with more experience have estimated it at 360, someday I'll have to get it scored.

Set up camp 10 miles from the road at 9000 feet in Wyoming. Scouted for several days, then called and stalked w/my hunting buddy until I could get a shot. Punched through the boiler room with a 7mm Rem mag/175 Nosler partition. Spent the next two days getting all that elk out of the mountains! It was an awesome hunt! Worked my rear off and came out with a magnificent animal. The rack keeps my loading bench company in my garage because there's no place in the house big enough!

After packing everything out I brought home nearly 300 pounds of great meat too! Regards, Guy

JohnTheGreek,

Hey no problem, none taken........My brother-in-law has lived in Alaska all his life and hunted moose and what have ya all in Alaska......His health is not what it used to be, and he's always wanted to take an elk and a water buffalo....So we all told him do it.....Do something for yourself....This guy is one of the hardest working and successful commercial fisherman here in SE Alaska. So he's now semi-retired do to what he wants. He sounded very happy to get these two animals.....And the bottom line, he's happy

CK,

Glad you didn't see my comments as an attack on you or your brother-in-law. Obviously, his health and ability to actually get out and stomp about the woods definitely impacts whether or not shooting and elk or water buffalo under such conditions makes sense. What bothers me is when poeple are perfectly capable of stomping about the woods and still refuse to even try. These folks are cheating themselves as much as the species they are hunting. Tell your brother-in-law that I am looking forward to photos of both animals!

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

I would like to point out to you gentleman that a couple years ago I believe the world-record elk was taken in North Dakota-free range. The elk is originally a plains/foothills animal, it was driven to the mountains by the encroachment of man on it's territory, so big elk are not confined to the mountains. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, I wouldn't want to give out false information, but this is what I udnerstand to be true from my readings and talking. I'm a South Dakota native.
yardbird

Yardbird,

I believe you are correct that elk were once a prevelant plains animal. Though not exclusively so-- they always have inhabited the mountains as well. In otherwords, they are are a very flexible big game animal; and were a very widely distributed species at one time. Historical references occasionally mention native heards that exsisted east of the mississippi. Just imagine!

Not my cup of tea either, but it is a free country....

Anyway, as far as how big this elk was, my two mature bulls were 6 and 10 years old (estimated from the teeth), obviously fully mature. They were taken in Central Idaho, where the winters are harsh, and the summers a bitch. The 10 year old yielded 267 lbs of meat, which means he was just over 800 lbs live weight. He scored just over 315 (so did the 6 year old).

If you work out the statistics in Idaho, mature 6x6 bulls are taken by less than 1% of the elk hunters annually! Let alone a 390 class bull. Of all the elk killed in this state (free range) less than 10% are 6x6 or larger.....

In short, you can ONLY get a 390 class bull at 900 lbs if you have superb habitat, and the chance to live to be fully mature. Your brother in law has a genuine 99th percentile rack.

If it had been taken fair chase, that is...... It does taste the same, though. FWIW, Dutch.

Talked to my brother-in-law today and found out the extact place where he got his elk. Here's the web site of the place:

www.cedarridgeelk.com

��Featured Hunt...................... .
6 x 6 Trophy Bull.......�
$6,500

B/C*............................................
270-299.......................
$5,000

B/C*............................................
300-339.......................
$6,500

B/C*............................................
340-369.......................
$8,500

B/C*............................................
370-399.......................
$15,000

B/C*............................................
400+...........................
$20,000

Management Bull Elk Hunt.........
$4,000

* B/C� (Boone & Crockett gross score)

The word I got from him, it was a fare chase hunt for him. The guide had him walking/jogging for 3 1/2 hours through the woods before they saw a elk.......and another hour after that when they caught up with the big one. True the area is private land and is fenced ( all 20,000 acres).........Like I said......He's happy

[ 01-12-2003, 04:10: Message edited by: CK ]

Yup CK, holy smokes!

There's always a whore in town and too many idiots with enough cash.......

Just because some twizzle stick has more money than honor does not make it hunting. This type of activity will doom our hunting heritage long before gun control and the liberal left crowd. Please brag about a real hunting accomplishment and not about shooting cattle on a ranch.

I think you boys are a little hard on a man you don't know and on the legal manner he opts to spend his hard earned savings.

It ain't my cup of tea,but more power to him and if he's happy,I'd surmise it was HIS money well spent.

Sure has been a bunch of belly achin' around here lately and most of it unfounded as it is directed at other's subjective decisions. It would take a hell of a crystal ball to cypher what makes others happy and why. I didn't realize so many of those instruments had been crafted and were in circulation?!!?

Happiness can be found in many ways,I guess some forget that................

CK,

Too bad you have to listen to all this self righteous shit.

There are many here that can't pass up a chance to pick some kind of nit.....

Congrats to the man that fulfilled his dream.

Thank you......I'll pass it along.

To me it's not much different than shooting a buck underneath the apple tree or from a tower overlooking a field of biologic type food sources.
There are private ranches all over the country that charge tens of thousands for certain hunts.
Some states even raffle tags for trophy animals which does not include guide , lodge fees ,etc.
I have killed quite a few elk in my day but never a 390 class bull.That's a dream bull for me.For those that can afford such novelties, how lucky they are.Just look at where the probable new world record Roosevelt elk in Oregon was killed this year!

CK,

I completely agree with Westman. I celebrate and congratulate your brother's hunt! Many judge who hunt over plots.

Bless his hard work and courage to survive his chosen profession also.

sincerely
Peter

I will pass it along.....Thanks guys.

CK, my last comments were directed entirely at you and I stand by them. I stated what a hunt like that might cost. I've never flamed anyone on these forums but you read into my post what you wanted and you took a few swings. I smacked you back and down.

This is a free country that practices capitalism. In these times, there is a demand to kill trophy animals and people are supplying that demand. Years ago if you wanted to take a trophy bull elk you would go out and get the job done by yourself or at the very least hire an outfitter. Now all it takes is to pay "a rancher" several thousand dollars to kill what amounts to "one of his stock". I don't believe that is truly hunting; maybe shooting and killing but I can't call it hunting. I think the hunting community should come out against this type of activity and call a spade a spade and hold ourselfs to a higher standard. Hopefully this will occur before the rest of our country watches enough hunting shows on TV and realizes how appalling this has become.

Hunting to me has always been an honorable endeavour. As honorable as a self-reliant independent hardworking man. The same type of men as our founding fathers.

Again CK, my comments were intended toward you. You have become part of the problem, so if the shoe fits then wear it. You tried the shoe on and found that it fits. Now Cinderella, maybe someone will take you to the ball as you want to pay to go.

Stormypeak ,

I defintely agree with a lot that you have to say, but I can't see the point in bashing the hell out of a senior citizen who might have found it physically impossible to hunt elk in any other way. This sort of operation HAs and WILL hurt the image of hunters in general and definitely doesn't do the wild herds any favors as they are generally believed to be breeding grounds for disease. That said, I think we need to stick together as outdoorsmen and educate one another when we can.

Stormypeak and CK,

There is a great book called "Beyond Fair Chase" that might interest you and CK by a retired Montana biologist named Jim Posewitz. You might check it out at the web-site listed below.

http://www.mt.net/~orionhi/

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

[ 01-13-2003, 22:30: Message edited by: JohnTheGreek ]

CK, I know you don't know elk hunting, which is fine.

When you say "the guide had him walking and jogging for 3 hours before they saw anything" you will have nearly every over-the-counter tag buying elk hunter rolling his eyes.

Again, statistically in Idaho, there is an under 10% success rate for over-the-counter bull elk hunters. That means for a three week season, the average hunter gets an elk every THIRTY WEEKS of open season.

With odds like that, elk hunting has to be a religion for someone to keep at it. Which is why people react so strongly to a statement that someone "earned" his "trophy" because he spent a morning walking around the windrows on a live-stock ranch.... FWIW, Dutch.

[ 01-14-2003, 00:21: Message edited by: Dutch ]

I think Big Stick summed it up. It's his money and his trophy and I'm proud for him. If you don't like it, don't do it.

WAAAAY toooo many people on this site seem to think their ethics are THE ETHICS for hunting. Wrong.

PS: and from what I've seen, I doubt one person in a ten, and maybe in a hundred, posting on these forums would go out on a small boat in the seas that commercial fishermen in Alaska consider routine.

Gatogordo,

I agree with you and that is why I saluted his brothers ability and success in his profession. I would think anyone on this site would be tested by commercial fishing.

As for the ethics side - it seems easier for people to discuss than livec- just an observation.

Shoot straight.

If you don t have anything nice to say don t say anything at all.................................................................................unless your a jerk that is.

I didn t mean that to anyone in particular,just in general.

CK, Thanks for sharing the story and good for your brother-in-law. It is a free country and it was his money. Some people believe they are not hunting if they are not out proving thier man hood by hiking in 10 miles or living in a pup tent for two weeks. And as for the guy who hunted in Wyoming and was 10 miles from a road and at 9000 ft. I hope he had a resident or outfitter with him. There isn't a place in elk country, in Wyoming, that if you are 10 miles from a road, you would be in a wilderness area. ALL NON-RESIDENTS NEED A GUIDE OR RESIDENT WITH PROPER LICENSE TO HUNT IN WILDERNESS AREAS. There for if he was in a wilderness area he was doing it illegally. It is a sucky law and needs to be challenged by a non-resident. But it is the law!

[ 03-16-2003, 04:48: Message edited by: kudu56 ]

It is a foolish notion to say that every area 10 miles from the road and holding elk is in a wilderness area.
I don't think this yahoo should be bragging about his pseudo-reenactment of the killing of a trophy bull. However recognize that the weapon of anti hunters is division. This means it is ok to punch the guy if he starts bragging about his elk but don't fight to pass laws.

Wow.
Who exactly is the "Yahoo [...] bragging about his pseudo-reenactment of the killing of a trophy bull" you mention?
There's less and less of a place for elk in this country, seems. And if someone sets aside 20k acres to let them roam, and then wants a bunch of money to let folks hunt them, that seems to me to be a good idea. For one, it makes more room for the more industrious/capable hunters out in the wild.
Maybe the negative sentiments come from the need to distinguish one's own "real" trophy from the canned goods.
Being big boys and girls, we can do that without making other's feel bad.

It gets harder and harder to get "away," and I'm sure the elk are feeling more and more like there's less and less difference between "inside" and "outside" the fence!

Cant People Leave a Oldtimer alone he has paid his dues let him injoy his dream for god Sakes! Sheess

Jeremy, any area in Wyoming at 9000 feet and 10 miles from a road is in a wilderness area. Look at your maps.

Also if the older gentleman shot it on 20,000 acres then thats a lot of real estate. I have a bull I shot in a limited quota area that scored 373 and it was in a one square mile of a school section. A half mile from a road. Does this make me less of a hunter?

[ 03-16-2003, 04:53: Message edited by: kudu56 ]

CK,

Congratulations to your brother-in-law, for working so hard, and for spending his hard earned money on a hunt that, for him, will provide wonderful memories.

I only wish I could afford to have done the same. Until I retire I will probably hunt public land and one day hope to do exactly as he has done.

Don't let those who would attempt to lessen what he has done in any way diminish your's or his enjoyment and celebration of his well earned trophy and experience!!!

They are only small people with small opinions that envy his accomplishments and are to be ignored like small dogs yapping at his heels!

Just look him in the eye with a big smile, grasp his hand firmly and shake it vigorously while saying... Way to go!!!! Fantastic Elk!!!!! I'm proud of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

$bob$

CK,

The old gentleman did just fine. Before I matured (and it is a constant process, Progress not perfection, you know). I, too, might possibly have found fault because he shot a bigger elk than I. Now that I have grown, I can only wish him the heartiest of congratulations and pity him for catching elk hunting fever. May all his hunts be as memorable as this one was.

I'm looking forward to the pix.

I wonder how many of you self rightous hunters actually hunt 20,000 acres regardless of where you hunt...I hunt the Idaho Wilderness every year and probably cover less than 5,000 acres in a week...I doubt any of you walk 10 miles a day for a week...except on the internet...

Now if you want to pick a fight then go over to Hunting Guides and give all those boys over there a fit for hunting Bison on 800 acres and are calling it a fair chase hunt...A bunch of them love that hunt.

But leave this old timer alone, he has deserved the right...I'm betting that old alaskan could have walked your butts off in his day...remember your days are coming, you may see things in a different light sooner than you think.

Ray, I think we are all talking past each other here. No one argues that the gentleman killed a fine animal, no one argues that he should not enjoy it, and no one argues this was a dastardly deed to be condemmed.

I think the point is this: He had his trip, he shot his animal, and enjoyed his eperience. That's good and fine. But it is not "elk hunting" as we know it in the west. It's something different.

To compare this trophy with an elk shot in any heavily hunted unit in the West is to compare a Club Med vacation to "Europe on $12 a day". In the end, you are talking about two entirely different worlds. JMO, Dutch.

Greetings all, I'm new to the board and after reading this thread thought I would share my thought.

Yes, I hunted American Buffalo on a free ranging hunt on the Ted Turner ranch. I was told the animals were limited to 16,000 acres. It was an easy hunt but so have many of my other hunts been "easy". After a season of scouting, spike camp, and being on top of the animal at first light makes for a plenty "easy" hunt. Having the guide drop me off at a spot within a mile of a herd of buffalo added to the ease of the hunt.

It is my thinking that having a guide put you in a spot loaded with game is no different that any other "easy" hunt. I have taken many people deer hunting who were able to get their deer within the first hour of the hunt. Sounds to me CK's friend had a much tougher hunt.

When I loose mobility I too plan to go on easier hunts. Ride in on someone else's horse, stay in the camp they setup, eat their cooking, and have them pack out my animal. Does it come any easier than that? Boise

I wouldn't get online and ask if the animal is big enough to brag about if it was a domesticated creature on a glorified farm.
I'm sure the guy was a great hunter in AK. If he hunted AK for so long then why did he get the urge to throw money away on a livestock hunt?

Geez, are you guys still flaming this old guy about the elk because he didn't kill it in WHAT IS YOUR OPINION of how it should be done. Get a life.