I built a 338 Lapua on a Rem 700 action specificaly to hunt Elk at 1k+ yardages and practiced and felt that I was ready for the challenge
I was hunting oout from Chama NM in the Carson National Forest. I speciffcaly wanted to hunt this one particulat mountain where the Elk could be spotted from long range and shot from long range.

The Mountain



We spotted Elk in the meadow of the photo above, but the closest shot would have benn 1750 yards I did not feel comfortable with this distance since I had no where to practice for a shot that far away. So that meant taking the horses and going up the mountain and hoping for a shot



The owner of RB Outfitters Ron Shalla took me and Wayne up the mountain that morning hoping to conect. Assoon as we got to about 10,800 feet elevation Ron heard an Elk bugle and he and Wayne started up hill on foot, after 5 or 10 minutes I heard Wayne shoot and he had a 5X5 down. After field dressing Wayne's Elk we waited for the evening hunt and at about 12:30 my nose started bleeding profusely and took abit bit to stop. At 3;30 pm we got the horses and rode to the evening observation point. I sat in ambush until about 5:30 pm and Ron said that he and Wayne were going to get the horses and go and load Waynes Elk and for me to stay put. As they started up the mountain to get the horses after going about 100 yards Wayne spotted a cow Elk and then Ron spotted the bull. Ron ran down the mountain to where I was located and said "come quick there isd a Bull in the trees. I gathered up my rifle and hightailed it. I didn't see the Elk at first and asked where is the Bull, Ron's said on the right> I didn't see the Bull untill I raised my rifle and looked through my scope which was still set on 10X. I emediately put the crosshair tight behind the shoulder at about 150 yardes and let fly a 300 grain SMK. That was the first time that I had fired that rifle freehand and the shot landed perfectly. I had my Bull the first day of the hunt.








some of the damage created by the 300 SMK

the lungs




The bullet fragmented and was not recovered 2 other holes in the offside body cavity







Another part of the bullet created this damage to the inside tenderloin

Did I read wrong or did you say you "High tailed it," at better than 10k feet?

Good Lord man, I think I'd fall over.

Glad you got your elk!

Good story and a nice bull to match. I know a couple of guys that shoot the 300 SMK with a 338 Edge and 338 Lapua. Both have had similar results. I've been tempted to load them up in my 338-378 but am concerned with the explosiveness up close. It's currently loaded with 225 grain TTSXs. Hopefully I'll get a chance to check this load out on elk next year.

Nothing quite like physical activity at altitude. Glad to see you handled it.

Ken....

Congrats on a nice elk. Glad you decided that the shot at 1 mile was not a good idea.

JWP,

Great Bull, and equally great narrative, and the pix are awesome.

Good off hand shot at 10K+ feet elevation.

Chama, NM is home of Andy Manson, gunsmith and an old friend (Mountaindog Gunsmithing). He's Dave Manson's brother, the reamer maker.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:
Congrats on a nice elk. Glad you decided that the shot at 1 mile was not a good idea.

I don't think jwp decided anything -- I think the elk made the decision for him!

Nice job and great shooting, John! You've done well and that is a fine bull!!

Not comfortable at 1750 yards? What a joke. That shoulda' been a chip shot...

KG

What can I say ?? Looking for a 1000 yard shot on an elk, why not use a .50 BMG ??? Using a Sierra Match King for hunting??? Both of these are something to be avoided if at all possible. Elk just don't deserve that kind of uncertain death.

Put the bullet in the correct location and death is very certain at any distance.
The 300 SMK works like any other cup and core non premium bullet and is a spectaular performer at the longer ranges


300 SMK recovered from a Utah Moose at 980 or so yards taken by a friend of mine

I don't know what your dumb shit problem is I made a 1 shot kill, that's not good enough for you apparently?

Maybe you could start a movement to outlaw Coyotes and Wolves from killing Elk, since they kill them in a gruesome manner and begin to feed on them before they are completely dead. I sure that you believe that an Elk "Deserves better"

Damn, remind me not to post any hunt reports on this forum. Y'all just picked it apart. If you aren't capable of making a shot at long distance, then by all means don't. jwp practices a lot and has experience hunting at long ranges. Don't let your inadequacies be the basis for your judjements of others' capabilities.

Congrats, jwp. That is a fine elk and nice shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:
To each his own but I would be well and truly ashamed of any animal shot at 1/2 a mile. The animals deserve better. Just because you CAN shoot an animal at a thousand yards does not make it ethical or sporting in my book.

Somehow the idea of hauling a 12lb rifle around with the intent of sniping elk at 1000 yards with garbage bullets just doesn't do much for me I'm afraid. I like to actually hunt.

I'd be truly ashamed to be,well you. I'd wouldn't want to be a 110% bon-a-fide dick head humanity deserves better

Poor bullet preformance looks like a very dead elk to me. I am sure the elk doesn't give a rats ass whether a 300 gr bullet destroys it lungs ect at 10 yards or 1500 yards..

Great hunt good job.

Congratulations on a good shot and nice elk.

While I am not capable of (reliably) shooting an elk at 1K, I understand the skill it takes to do this properly. I am not a big fan of the Sierra however, and your experience is a good demonstration of the bullets limitations. I know the elk is dead, etc., etc., but this is not the performance I want from the bullet. I also understand the reasoning for choosing this bullet for long range shots.

I stick with Barnes TSX, and limit myself to a measily 600 yards as a result...

Congrats again. Don't let the "ethics police" get you down.

Bill

Simmer down there jwp475. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as your entitled to yours. If you want to use bullets that explode at 150 yards then go ahead. I don't believe that it's ethical or sporting to shoot animals at 1000 yards. As long as it's legal you are free to blast away. Sorry, if you don't like my views but this is a public forum. If you want to proudly display pics of backstraps blown apart as a result of cheap bullets then be a man and deal with the resulting comments.

Guess I'm just one of those idiots who believe the animals we hunt should be shown some respect and given a sporting chance.

If you can cleanly kill an animal at that range, how is it unethical?

"If you can cleanly kill an animal at that range, how is it unethical?"

Because the animal has hardly been "hunted" when he is sniped from 1/2 a mile away. Because animals shot at 1/2 a mile away have far more chance of being wounded. Because animals wounded at 1/2 a mile have far less chance of being recovered.

I'm getting a little weary of the argument that no one should criticize longe range shooting because everyone practicing it is a perfect marksmen and never makes a mistake. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a shot at 1000 yards is far more likely to go awry than one at 100 yards.

I have no doubt that I could become proficient at that distance if I set my mind to it. I have no desire to hunt that way. I've hunted for 30 years and quit counting big game taken at 50-something. I have never lost an animal in that time. I have managed that record because I limit my shots to reasonable ranges and make every attempt to close on the animals I hunt. Old fashioned ideas I know.

I could cleanly kill a elk at 1/2 a mile with a mortar but that wouldn't make it ethical. What the heck ever happened to the idea that a hunter should get as close to an animal as possible to ensure a clean kill? When did stalking go out of style? When did hunting become killing at a 1000 yards? Why is it considered correct to hunt cape buffalo at close range? Why do we not shoot turkeys off their roosts? Why do we not shoot mallards on the water? These decisions seperate "hunting" from "killing" and "hunters" from "shooters".

There are so many things about this new trend that make me ill I don't know where to start. For every person who diligently practices at 1000 yards there are 10 yahoos blasting away at long range with no idea where their bullet is going to impact. I've seen enough elk left with jaws ands legs shot off to last me a lifetime.

Long range shooting at elk is the antithesis of everything that hunting means to me. You may think it sounds silly but I truly believe that any animal hunted deserves our respect and deserves to be hunted in a sporting manner. That means closing as close as possible before shooting, not intentionally trying to set up 1000 yard shots.

It seems that few have any idea of what being a sportsman means any more. I'm amazed that I have to explain this to anyone.

DC Roxby,

I couldn't agree more. My hunting is done before I pull the trigger. To each his own though....

DC, I am with you on your sentiment. Funny, but I've never seen anyone, ever, post about the animals that were 'missed', or worse, badly wounded and unrecovered at half a mile. Does that never happen, or is it that when these long/silly range target shooters miss/wound, they have nothing to show, so don't mention it? I think everyone knows the answer. How many misses/wounded animals are there for every success? Come on, long range shooters: how about an answer. How many animals have you missed for every one you've connected on? Wounded and not recovered?

The shooting skill to make a shot at those distances is very impressive, no doubt. Shooting at a game critter, though? Too much can go wrong IMO, and as important, to me, sitting half a mile away and shooting just isn't what I consider hunting; it's sniping/target shooting. If your percentages are less than maybe 85%, I think you should reevaluate. But then, I'm not silly enough to think I'm going to change anyone's that does this kind of thing. For me I guess the bottom line is as has already been said: the critters deserve better.

KG

1000 yards is for prairie dogs, manhole covers and terrorists. Period. It's not about confidence, it's about ethics---or the lack thereof. Aside from that, I enjoyed the story of the hunt.

I don't care what distance that you shoot at but that SMK performed exactly like I thought that it would at 150 yards.

Your pictures should put an end to the SMK/hunting bullet debate.


The SMK is not a hunting bullet.

This is in no way meant to start a pissing contest, so please check your attitudes at the door. This outfitter (the one jwp used) said that he loses more elk to bow hunters every year than all other forms of hunting combined. Are you going to now tell me that bow hunting is somehow unethical? I find it interesting that self-righteousness surfaces every time someone postsabout hunting game at ranges beyond the average hunter's comfort zone. I've seen game wounded at under 100 yards, so is this a range that is unethical? If you wound an animal at ANY range, it is your responsibility to find that animal and finish what you've started. Isn't that the basis of all hunting?

Hummmm.....1000 yard shots at game vs. bow hunting? Is this the old "moral equivolancy" debate?

Not sure about bow hunting. Admittedly, I am a rifle hunter. Yet I respect those who hunt with a bow for their woodsmanship and bushcraft. And it seems to me the odds, given the distance of most bow shots, are in favor of a "reasonable" expection of a humane kill. But purposeful 1000 yard rifle shots on one of North American's greatest and most grand game animals? Seems to me that too many things can go wrong. Killing by rile or bow is not easy, or pretty. But the essential, no, PIMARY, ethic in hunting is the quick, reasonably sure humane death of our quarry.

And---BTW---while I am the first to admit I have wounded and missed animals in the field, I'm not sure how much skill is involved in taking such a shot at an undistrubed animal from a secure, unhurried, unstressed, otherwise no-big-deal shooting position with a piece of equipment designed to do exactly such a thing.

And if one took a shot under conditions that were other than "secure, unhurried, undisturbed, unstressed" would it be ethical? Hard to argue both ways.

Exactly what challenge is being met here? What has the shooter accomplished? What's the difference between hitting this elk and hitting a hub cap at the same distance, the "kill zone is about the same size? What canons of ethical hunting have been met? Are we simply experimenting? Does the outcome justify the means?

The anti-hunters would love to get ahold of this thread.........

Admitedly, long-range hunting isn't necessarily my cup of tea, but I am more and more fascinated with it especially after having seen jwp take game at some pretty long ranges. Not everyone is up to the task of a really long shot and in fact I would argue that most hunters aren't. Like being a sniper, it's a skill that not everyone is capable of mastering and therefore shouldn't be attempted by just anyone. I do a lot of handgun hunting and this is another discipline that got poo-pooed in the past as not being ethical for a number of reasons. Again, it's not for everyone, but there are those who can and do on a regular basis. I just hate the judgements passed by many as soon as long-range and hunting are mentioned in the same thread. It is a skillset that requires good equipment, a skilled shooter, and a LOT of practice. Again, not for everyone.

See, this can be discussed without the vehemence.

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:

I could cleanly kill a elk at 1/2 a mile with a mortar but that wouldn't make it ethical. What the heck ever happened to the idea that a hunter should get as close to an animal as possible to ensure a clean kill? When did stalking go out of style? When did hunting become killing at a 1000 yards? Why is it considered correct to hunt cape buffalo at close range? Why do we not shoot turkeys off their roosts? Why do we not shoot mallards on the water? These decisions seperate "hunting" from "killing" and "hunters" from "shooters".

Amen!

With the advent of rifle scopes, the gold-standard for a maximum range shot while hunting is 400 yards, yes?

With the advent of laser range-finders, shots out to 1500 yards (and further?) have become possible.

Somewhere in between, it seems that the activity described changes from "hunting" to "shooting." Is there grey in-between? Certainly. But perhaps its akin to the Supreme Courts description of pornography:

Hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

By the way, JWP, don't be too offended if people take exception with your post. You put it on the internet, after all, and there's no shortage of opinions out there

And I am glad for you that you had a good hunt and filled your tag!

friar

When the Bunny-huggers finally win and hunting is banned, it will be because of stunts like this. We call hunting a sport involving fair chase and a respect for the game animal. JWP is certainly not a sportsman in my book.
He says that he chose not to fire at a range of one mile but the fact that he decided not to is not cause for sportsmen to be grateful. He has reduced our sport to sniping.
JWP chose to use a target bullet, not a hunting bullet. The target bullet is more accurate but is not designed for a clean kill on game, furthur demonstraing his total lack of respect for a noble game animal. Firing at a range of a mile is subject to different air currents at different distances and not at all visible while hunting. JWP obviously didn't care if he hit the elk for a kill or just wounded it by considerind firing at that range. He used a target bullet that cannot be depended upon to cleanly kill. JWP just didn't care about the animal at all, he just wants to prove something to himself and others. Using a noble beast as a substitute for a steel gong is totally depraved. In my opinion, a shrink report would reveal some very deep and serious character flaws in JMP.

In a very short time, this country will have a President who believes that some weapons belong on the battlefield only. JMP's weapon was designed to destroy our enemies, where a hit is as good as a kill. I believe that an elk deserves far more consideration than a Taliban. In the coming political climate, this insipid bragging by JMP is just the kind of justification that the gun-grabbers want to find. JMP and his ilk are the enemy of every sportsman in America. JMP's kind of actions is the cause for a lot of the anti-hunting feelings and makes it hard for legitimate sportsmen to justify hunting. JMP isn't a sportsman, he's an adventurer. He cares nothing about anything or anyone but himself.

JMP doesn't have any sense at all and I regard him as less valuable to this world than a Rockchuck.

quote:

Originally posted by Chop901:
When the Bunny-huggers finally win and hunting is banned, it will be because of stunts like this. We call hunting a sport involving fair chase and a respect for the game animal. JWP is certainly not a sportsman in my book.
He says that he chose not to fire at a range of one mile but the fact that he decided not to is not cause for sportsmen to be grateful. He has reduced our sport to sniping.
JWP chose to use a target bullet, not a hunting bullet. The target bullet is more accurate but is not designed for a clean kill on game, furthur demonstraing his total lack of respect for a noble game animal. Firing at a range of a mile is subject to different air currents at different distances and not at all visible while hunting. JWP obviously didn't care if he hit the elk for a kill or just wounded it by considerind firing at that range. He used a target bullet that cannot be depended upon to cleanly kill. JWP just didn't care about the animal at all, he just wants to prove something to himself and others. Using a noble beast as a substitute for a steel gong is totally depraved. In my opinion, a shrink report would reveal some very deep and serious character flaws in JMP.

In a very short time, this country will have a President who believes that some weapons belong on the battlefield only. JMP's weapon was designed to destroy our enemies, where a hit is as good as a kill. I believe that an elk deserves far more consideration than a Taliban. In the coming political climate, this insipid bragging by JMP is just the kind of justification that the gun-grabbers want to find. JMP and his ilk are the enemy of every sportsman in America. JMP's kind of actions is the cause for a lot of the anti-hunting feelings and makes it hard for legitimate sportsmen to justify hunting. JMP isn't a sportsman, he's an adventurer. He cares nothing about anything or anyone but himself.

JMP doesn't have any sense at all and I regard him as less valuable to this world than a Rockchuck.

Wow. Pretty strong words for a man who doesn't know JWP. Are you always this self-righteous and judgemental? So, what are you doing to preserve our right to hunt in this country, if you don't mind me asking? You are projecting gloom and doom, but I really want to know if you are doing your part to make sure our hunting tradition continues for generations to come.

Well, just a wee bit extreme there Chop, don'tcha think? I think JWP is at least entitled to skunk or opossum status...

All BSing aside, I truly do think on top of the ethical problem that many of us have with this kind of stunt (and I do consider it a stunt), it gives non and anti hunters the impression that what we do is all about the kill, and we'll do whatever to achieve same, the critters be damned, including taking low percentage cracks at game far too distant to even easily see, let alone judge with the naked eye. No amount of argument will convince me that this kind of long range shooting has anything to do with being a proficient hunter. Marksmanship? Hell yes. But then, an elk isn't an inanimate target that you staple to a frame. And that's all I have.

Chop901 when the bunny huggers Anti's win it well be cause guys like you think you can make them happy.

They hate hunting they hate guns if you think by playing by their rules you well win BS.

If doesn't matter a rats behind what a critter is killed with or how far away it was when killed. I would say 99 percet of the anti's could not tell a muzzle loader from the newest wiz bang custom out there.

You sound a lot like Zumbo who thinks if he gives them AR's ect you well get to keep theirs.

Compromise all you want anti's hate hunting they hate guns it has nothing to do with what type how far or with what.

I belive it people like you who belive they can get along with them and if you give them enough right stuff they well leave you alone what BS.

Given the chance they well out law everything starting with one working down the list. AR's today scope rifles next. Hell who needs a scope one should be getting with in bow range any way it is way to unsportsman like to kill them something at 200 yards because if you were a really hunter you would be useing a bow or spear ect.

I think you should be hunting with a knife a real man wants to get as close as possible.

It doesn't matter a rats behind to the animal if he is killed at 1 foot or 3000 ft.

Keep kissing there behinds and see how far its gets you.

Congrats on your elk!

I won't get into the whole long range hunting thing...it is and has been a hot issue.

My thoughts are jeez you are going to need a big ass scabboard for that rifle and that riding with that rifle slung is a big pain in the ass!

John

Ignorance and self-righteousness certainly has found a home on this thread. I wonder how many of you have ever seriously competed and shot at 600 or 1000 yards? How many have even shot enough to be competetive at 100 yards? There is a level of skill required that most will not master, and many won't understand. And when I think about the assumed ethics of archery hunters mentioned, I guess you haven't seen the latest FMP video of "archers" shooting deer and elk at ranges out to 130 yards.

In my mind, ethics is about only taking shots with an extremely high degree of probability to achieve the intended results. For some, this is a 20 yard bow shot - for others, maybe 40 yards, or even 60. It ceases to become a stunt if you can do it reliably. the key is RELIABLY. The same for rifle shots, pistol shots, muzzleloader shots, etc. I hunt with bows and all of the arms mentioned above. I practive pretty seriously and learn my limitations with each. (Or at least I try to understand my limitations.) I respect those who become proficient with their chosen weapon. I am primarily a rifle hunter, with archery being my next most commonly used weapon. I enjoy hunting with each, for a variety of different reasons. The weekend warrior type, who hasn't shot his rifle since last year, or never bothered to shoot his bow with broadheads before the season - those are the guys who worry me. Ultra- long range shooting is not my cup of tea, but I can recognize the accomplishment, or at least the preparation required to achieve that capability. Recognize the accomplishment for what it is.
To each his own...
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by llamapacker:
Ignorance and self-righteousness certainly has found a home on this thread. I wonder how many of you have ever seriously competed and shot at 600 or 1000 yards? How many have even shot enough to be competetive at 100 yards? There is a level of skill required that most will not master, and many won't understand. And when I think about the assumed ethics of archery hunters mentioned, I guess you haven't seen the latest FMP video of "archers" shooting deer and elk at ranges out to 130 yards.

In my mind, ethics is about only taking shots with an extremely high degree of probability to achieve the intended results. For some, this is a 20 yard bow shot - for others, maybe 40 yards, or even 60. It ceases to become a stunt if you can do it reliably. the key is RELIABLY. The same for rifle shots, pistol shots, muzzleloader shots, etc. I hunt with bows and all of the arms mentioned above. I practive pretty seriously and learn my limitations with each. (Or at least I try to understand my limitations.) I respect those who become proficient with their chosen weapon. I am primarily a rifle hunter, with archery being my next most commonly used weapon. I enjoy hunting with each, for a variety of different reasons. The weekend warrior type, who hasn't shot his rifle since last year, or never bothered to shoot his bow with broadheads before the season - those are the guys who worry me. Ultra- long range shooting is not my cup of tea, but I can recognize the accomplishment, or at least the preparation required to achieve that capability. Recognize the accomplishment for what it is.
To each his own...
Bill

Bravo Bill!! Well said and I agree with you 100%. Like I said in an earlier post, when the distances increase beyond those of the individual hunter's (not in every hunter's case obviously) comfort zone, they start screaming about ethics. You need to practice your butt off to reach a level of competency that sadly not everyone is capable of achieving.

quote:

Originally posted by llamapacker:
Ignorance and self-righteousness certainly has found a home on this thread. I wonder how many of you have ever seriously competed and shot at 600 or 1000 yards? How many have even shot enough to be competetive at 100 yards? There is a level of skill required that most will not master, and many won't understand. And when I think about the assumed ethics of archery hunters mentioned, I guess you haven't seen the latest FMP video of "archers" shooting deer and elk at ranges out to 130 yards.

In my mind, ethics is about only taking shots with an extremely high degree of probability to achieve the intended results. For some, this is a 20 yard bow shot - for others, maybe 40 yards, or even 60. It ceases to become a stunt if you can do it reliably. the key is RELIABLY. The same for rifle shots, pistol shots, muzzleloader shots, etc. I hunt with bows and all of the arms mentioned above. I practive pretty seriously and learn my limitations with each. (Or at least I try to understand my limitations.) I respect those who become proficient with their chosen weapon. I am primarily a rifle hunter, with archery being my next most commonly used weapon. I enjoy hunting with each, for a variety of different reasons. The weekend warrior type, who hasn't shot his rifle since last year, or never bothered to shoot his bow with broadheads before the season - those are the guys who worry me. Ultra- long range shooting is not my cup of tea, but I can recognize the accomplishment, or at least the preparation required to achieve that capability. Recognize the accomplishment for what it is.
To each his own...
Bill

Excellent post..


Some here want to define ethical in terms of distance instead of conditions and circumstances.

The first time that I hunted with RB Outfitters I had a very nice 6X6 Bull with in 100 yards but, because of the brisk up hill wailk at 10,500 feet of elevation I was breathing so hard that there was no way that I could have made that shot since I couln't keep the Elk in my scope much less keep the cross hairs on him. I never pulled the trigger and I went home empty handed.

In 2005 in Wyoming near Medicine Bow I worked my way into position to get a shot at a doe Antelope at 777 yards, thier was so much pressure on these Antelope thathey were the spookiest that I have ever hunted. I made a one shot DRT kill on tha goat. I knew that I neede 12 3/4 MOA correction anbd I dialed that into the Nighforce scope and the Goat hit the ground As quick as I could get back in the scope. THar was with a 180 grain TSX from my 300 win.

If distance is the criteria then what is the correct distance is the there varing distances for each different weapon? How far for a Bow & Arrow, a Shotgun, a 243, a 300 Win, Etc. Or should we all just hunt with a Spear or a Knife to ensure that we are close.

If you think that just because you are prepoaired to shoot at long range that you don't have to hunt to find a legal or suitable animal then you are totaly off base. I wish that it was that easy, but it's not.

To read the wind one must use the best optics available to read the leave at varing distance in adittion to a pocket weather station to imput your barometric pressure and a small hand held computor to imput the data into your ballistic targeting soft ware program to accurately predict the bullets path




Oh yea the self rightous that I hear in this thread is the same that I heard years ago when I was an avid handgun hunter, before it was anacceptable way of taking game

quote:

Originally posted by DC Roxby:
To each his own but I would be well and truly ashamed of any animal shot at 1/2 a mile. The animals deserve better. Just because you CAN shoot an animal at a thousand yards does not make it ethical or sporting in my book.

Somehow the idea of hauling a 12lb rifle around with the intent of sniping elk at 1000 yards with garbage bullets just doesn't do much for me I'm afraid. I like to actually hunt.

Sure looks like there are some uninformed, ignorant and arrogant shooters on this forum. I shoot IK BR have won State Championships and set range records for the closest to the bull and for those that can and that of course includes equipment and skill the 1K shot is possible. Personally, I have killed many animals with 1 shot at that approximate range. For the badly informed people who do not know the history of the SMK I would challenge you to research it and find out for yourself why it will never be marketed as a hunting bullet. I have the entire story and white paper written by the JAG but you need to find it and read it for yourselves and then you will understand it is a financial decision by Sierra.

Additionally, if you will do the research you will find that the core of the 300 SMK is the same as the GK and furthermore the differences in jacket thickness and type in this bullet compared to the GK are insignificant. Next time why don’t you do the proper due diligence rather than make a foolhardy post revealing to everyone that you are a buffoon who does not know enough to be dangerous.

Now I have the equipment and the skins on the wall to show I know what I am talking about for long range shooting as I have been doing it for over 25 years and yes it does take thousands upon thousands of rounds to become proficient. Being proficient does not limit itself to just looking at an Exbal calculated drop and wind drift chart and winging a bullet out there. Unfortunately, it involves hundreds of hours learning to judge condition and the effect it will have on the shot so that narrows down the percentage of people who are qualified to attempt such a shot now doesn’t it.

Point here is that there are people commenting on this who could not find their rear with both hands with a map about this subject. Now carry on I have my popcorn out and feet up!! You are a pantload..

quote:

Originally posted by Chop901:
When the Bunny-huggers finally win and hunting is banned, it will be because of stunts like this. We call hunting a sport involving fair chase and a respect for the game animal. JWP is certainly not a sportsman in my book.
He says that he chose not to fire at a range of one mile but the fact that he decided not to is not cause for sportsmen to be grateful. He has reduced our sport to sniping.
JWP chose to use a target bullet, not a hunting bullet. The target bullet is more accurate but is not designed for a clean kill on game, furthur demonstraing his total lack of respect for a noble game animal. Firing at a range of a mile is subject to different air currents at different distances and not at all visible while hunting. JWP obviously didn't care if he hit the elk for a kill or just wounded it by considerind firing at that range. He used a target bullet that cannot be depended upon to cleanly kill. JWP just didn't care about the animal at all, he just wants to prove something to himself and others. Using a noble beast as a substitute for a steel gong is totally depraved. In my opinion, a shrink report would reveal some very deep and serious character flaws in JMP.

In a very short time, this country will have a President who believes that some weapons belong on the battlefield only. JMP's weapon was designed to destroy our enemies, where a hit is as good as a kill. I believe that an elk deserves far more consideration than a Taliban. In the coming political climate, this insipid bragging by JMP is just the kind of justification that the gun-grabbers want to find. JMP and his ilk are the enemy of every sportsman in America. JMP's kind of actions is the cause for a lot of the anti-hunting feelings and makes it hard for legitimate sportsmen to justify hunting. JMP isn't a sportsman, he's an adventurer. He cares nothing about anything or anyone but himself.

JMP doesn't have any sense at all and I regard him as less valuable to this world than a Rockchuck.

Saeed the owner of this web site has tons and tons of experience hunting and taking game and he has used the SMK to take game.
as a matter of fact here is what he had to say about the SMK as a hunting bullet.

quote:

Saeed
Administrator
Posted Nov 18, 11:24 AM Hide Post
We were going to go on safari to South Africa in 2002. And as on a previous hunt there, we found that sometimes one has to take rather long shots at some animals.

So we built a rifle specially for this purpose, and chambered it for our 30/404 wildcat.

I tried differnt makes of 180 grain bullets in it, and we got over 3400 fps with all of them with very good accuracy.

So, in the interest of testing, I loaded several different types of 180 grain bullets in it.

Including the Sierra Match Kings.

Our first hunting area was in Zululand, for zebra, reedbuck and nyala. All of these were shot at relatively close range.

I used the 180 grain Match King bullets, and all worked very well.

They did fall apart, but not any more than normal soft points as loaded by the factories.

As a matter of choice, I prefer bullets that hold together and penetrate rather than those that expand explosively for hunting.

But if my only choice is between Match Kings or normal factory soft point, I would pick the Match Kings.

www.accuratereloading.com

Saeed's post is here;

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/234103709

As to who is ignorant chop901 I'll let your rambling rant speak for its self

First off,good report and pics of the elk hunt jwp475.

If the anti's win it'll be because we are too busy argueing amungst ourselves to stop them!!!

I feel so neglected having found this thread so late. A lot of very good opinions here and there isn't much to say that hasn't already been said.

Having been trained in years past to shoot things at a mile. Having competed in many disciplines and received world rankings in the top ten. I think I can qualify to enter and speak on behalve of both sides.

Now can I hit a 11 X 16 target at 1750 yards. Yes I can. Can I do it often? Yes I can? How long did it take me to learn to do this. A very long time. Can I still do it? Maybe. AT todays prices I do not feel I practice enough to take a shot at a maile on something I want to bring home. How many rounds a year did I fire in practice when I was competing. 10,000-12,000 a year. I currently shoot about 3,000-5,000 rounds a year.

What is the longest shot today I would take on a game animal? I shoot specialty handguns and have only hunted with them for several decades.

I practice most often at 500 yards. I can hit a 6 inch target every time. I limit my shots to 600 yards only because at that range I know that I can humanly take any game animal. Though I only use hunting bullets, I have a friend that uses a 7 mag and only loads 168gr Seirra Match kings. He has killed more deer, elk and moose with one shot than most people have seen let alone shot. His point____ One shot behind the ear drops any and everything. I need to know I have the consistant accuracy to hit that spot.

Can I shoot further than 600 yards? Yes I can and probably take what I aim at. The operative word is probably. Unless I am absolutely positive I can drop an animal with the equipment I have I will not pull the trigger.
I hunt with very heavy hitters from my handguns.

Conditions must be perfect and I have way to many stories in my file of people shooting beyond their abilities or their equipments capabilites and leaving wounded animals to die. That goes along with a friend of mine allowing bow hunters to hunt his ranch. Until he found a dead 7 X 7 bull elk in the only stock pound he had in ten miles. I helped him pull the bull out of the water and was there when he saw the arrow stuck in a rear ham. Festered, rotten and running a temperature the bull laid down to cool off and died.

I say everyone has an opinion and is welcome to share it. Because you can do something,should you? Animals are majestic creatures and they roam wild and unhunted on my friends ranch for the past 15 years. Family and close friends are the only ones allowed to hunt on 10,000 acreas. I know that there are many reasons/accidents that can happen to cause a bad shot. I have done my very best the past 45 years of hunting to elliminate human error. If I can get close I do.

Just because it works for me doesn't mean that someone else can't do it another way.

Neal

A previous poster said something to the affect that shooting an undisturbed, unmolested animal was not truely hunting. I've hunted with Archery, Muzzleloading, Handguns, regular rifles and specialty built long range rifles. The one thing I've always tried to do, was harvest undisturbed and unaware animals. Once an animal knows you're there, the odds of them jumping the string while archery hunting, or running at the shot (not providing a followup shot if needed) go up exponentially. I've passed up shots of 30yds while archery hunting and I've passed up shots of 1000yds+ while long range hunting. It all depends on the conditions. I've shot 3 elk with Sierra Matchkings from my 338 Allen Magnum (508,520 and 680 yards) Each were lethal hits and none of the animals moved more than a few yards. The Matchkings I use are 300 grains of lead traveling at 3300fps. How can that not be lethal when put in the right place? I've shot animals with dozens of different "hunting" bullets and some of them were horrible performers. The fact that Sierra markets the Matchking as a 'target only' bullet has absolutely nothing to do with it's design. Do a little research and you will be surprised that it has to do with a lot of other things (including the Geneva convention).

This year, I walked at least 30 miles carrying my heavy rifle (18lbs) plus 20lbs of support equipment at more than 9000' elevation while hunting elk in Colorado. How is that less sporting than the guys that drive around on the roads looking for animals to jump shoot with their '06 ? Or the guys that simply sit in a shed waiting for a whitetail to walk by at 100yds? etc etc etc.

Get a clue everyone, we are all in this together and can't continue to complain about each others methods. Don't be a ZUMBO!

AJ

AJ

I like the Zumbo remark. Very true!

Using an Allen 338 at 600 yards is like using a 30-06 with 180 grain Bulets for coyote hunting!

Many haven't heard of the Allen Magnums so like anything else its an educational thing. Just like the attached bullet maker link. Many just do not enter into this arena because they do not know about the stuff. Very high BC match grade expanding hunting bullets???
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/faqlightheavy.html

I shoot a .900 BC 245gr 338 Lehigh bullet from my 338 X 378 Imp Weatherby from a handgun as well as a rifle. How many understand the rarity and importance of a .900 BC bullet or better yet a 1.100 BC 50BMG bullet? Dave at Lehigh bullets is working on a 500 grain bullet for me to shoot out of my 510 Weatherby improved handgun!
http://lehighbullets.com/index.html This is a very specialized arena that some walk in and others haven't heard of.

SInce I hunt with handguns I have to pass up on a lot of shots just like AJ indicated because I could not get settled down and guarantee the shot. One was a definite booner buck at 100 yards. When I was a young man I made one mistake and took 2 hours following up a elk I wounded because I read something a famous gun writer had said about a product. Just because someone writes something in a magazine isn't reason to believe he is right or that he has our best interests in mind. Jumbo said what he said and I do not care if Uncle Ted tried to smooze it over. He said it!

Again, just because something works for me doesn't mean its good for everyone.

Neal

DC Roxby

Please explain this https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=821109059#821109059 I can see you are real ethical!!! Shooting at running elk WTF is that… Then you just assume you missed without looking for blood, and then shoot a cow… then another bull while you still didn’t know for sure if you hit the other bull on your first shot.

DUDE you give SLOB hunter’s new meaning!!!!

I would rather have JWP shooting at an elk at a 1000 yards that has no clue that he is there than have you spraying lead around at 100 yards at running animals. Your are a nut job.