pdogshooter,

Do a litle research on the guy and his wife that were eaten last summer while camping in ANWR, he had a 44 mag in the tent, was an experienced outdoorsman, and never got a shot off and they were both killed and eaten. I have spent my fair share of time hunting blacks, and griz and Madgoat is way more in touch with reality than you are. I live in Alaska and spend all seasons outdoors, the bears that attack in most cases dont give you time to debate the equation, you just get attacked. The ones that you see and get a chance to read body language on generally will not attack if you hold your ground(and DONT run) the ones you suprise and the ones that suprise you are the ones that get ya, its faster than your thought process can send the messages from brain to hand to trigger finger, guaranteed!

I belive it was this story you are talking about
June 27, 2005


ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Two people camping along the Hulahula River in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge were killed by a grizzly bear, officials said Sunday.

Officials found the bodies and an unused firearm in a tent Saturday at a campsite near the river. They shot and killed the animal.

The couple, whose names were not released, were believed to be in their late 50s or early 60s, police said. They were from Anchorage and had been on a recreational rafting trip down the river, Alaska State Troopers said.

The victims were in their tent when the attack took place, according to Tim DeSpain, spokesman for Alaska State Troopers.

The campsite was clean, with food stored in bear-proof containers.

''The initial scene indicates that it was a predatory act by the bear,'' DeSpain said.

A rafter had seen the animal at the site and notified authorities.

Officials said they were not sure when the couple were killed.

AP

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-grizzly27.html

====================

Grizzly kills 2 campers in Alaskan wildlife refuge
Last Updated Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:27:52 EDT
CBC News

Officials planned to do an autopsy Monday on a grizzly bear that was hunted down after killing two campers in Alaska.

The dead couple, who hailed from Anchorage, were found dead over the weekend in their tent pitched beside the Hulahula River in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Officials have not released the names of the victims, but they are believed to be in their late 50s or early 60s. It was not clear exactly when they died.

The couple had been part of a river rafting trip. They had been staying alone at their campsite, but a fellow rafter spotted the bear and called authorities.

Food at the campsite had been stored in bear-proof containers and officials found a weapon that had not been fired.

"The initial scene indicates that it was a predatory act by the bear," said Tim DeSpain, a spokesman for Alaska State Troopers.

DeSpain also said such attacks were extremely rare, even in remote areas.

Injuries to the bodies suggested a bear attack and there were no hints of foul play, another official said.

The refuge lies on the northwest border of Yukon Territory. The closest settlement to the campsite is Kaktovik, a 300-member community on Barter Island in the Beaufort Sea, about 20 kilometres up river.

http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/world/national/2005/06/27/grizzly050625.html

======================
Posts: 2917 | Location: Houston, Texas USA
The fire arm I belive was a shotgun not a handgun.


What about the guy out side of Anchorage who shot a grizzlt attacking him with out getting hurt what about the guy who shot a brown while fishing with a 9mm last year without getting hurt. What about the bowhunter in Montana a couple of years ago who shot a sow grizzly with is 44 at full charge who didn't get hurt.

That just three of the top my head I can think of.

Alaskacub to carry some form of bear protection when out in the bush and if so what type.

Yes I have been spray also know that you can fight threw it and still defend oneself.
Not effected by the wind get a life spray is very effected by the wind. Some of th streaming type are less effected but with them one as to be more accurute them, the kind the make a big cloud. But the clouding type the mist is very fine and gets blown around.

Makes me wonder if you have ever used spray. If you have a canister of it go stand out side with a good wind in your face and give it a spray Iam sure you well like the results.

The theory that most of us hunters up here that hunt grizzly bears and or hunting in grizzly country is, if its meant to be, its meant to be. The pistol, the 338 WM, none of those are going to do the job if its your time. I will say at least from my opinion, many bears are shot in Alaska annualy that were not attacking people, but the human made the decision to shoot because he thought the situation was too close for comfort. Its your call, if you think for one second that a .38 will kill a bear enough to keep him from killing you, you better guess again, I have videod a 300 lb black bear being shot at 7 steps with a custom 300 grain load out of a 44 mag, and although it rolled the bear, the bear got to its feet with half its shoulder blown off and ran 80 yards. If he could have directed the will to survive at the shooter I guarantee you he would have been in trouble. The bigger griz and browns is whole nother critter from the black bear. Much bigger and a much stronger will to survive. A guy in my town shot a Brownie with a 340 weatherby not once but twice before later being attacked by the same bear several miles away while tracking. his partner then shot the bear 2 more times while it was nawing on this guy and in the process of killing the bear that was on top of his buddy one pass through from the 340 took off most of his buddies lower leg. The bear then ran off and died, thats 4 shots from a 340 weatherby shooting 250 partitions, I will not include the attacked hunters name but if you search the net you might find it. This took place on Kodiak in the 70's but he wears the battle scars everyday, missing most of his lower leg. The bear is mounted in full body standing in my local grocery store.The moral of the story is when its your time its your time, you might do everything right and still have everything go wrong. thats the risk, in my personal opinion driving your vehicle on americas roads is way more dangerous than bear hunting or hunting in bear country.

Yes I remember the story and the firearm I belive was a 358win shooting 250gr bullets.

As along With madgoat you still didn't andswer my question what to you carry for selfdefense.

So are you saying that the people who defended themselfs with are handguns are liers or it didn't happen.

Iam not saying a handgun is the best a good rifle beats it. But they sure in the hell beat a fist rock, or sharp stick.

I see some interesting differences on this thread. MadGoat says that pistols are never useful agains grizzlies, Pdog shooter says pistols are often useful against bears, and are much better than nothing. MadGoat says pepper spray is much more effective than rifles, or at leat that seemed to be implied.

Nobody said a .38 pistol was the preferred defense against any bear. There seems to by a lot of talking past the point that a firearm is better than your bare hands.

It is hard for me to believe that any person would seriously argue that a person in a fight for their life would be better off without a weapon.

Desertrat
Now you have done it. You chased them away. Personally I carry both spray and 45acp fmj but the best defense imo is to try to be totally aware of my suroundings. Dont walk around like its a big city park. You are in someone else's home and you may not be welcome. Keep your eyes open and enjoy.
Dick

Bigholes your respones reminds be of a grizzy selfdefense shooting about 6 years ago when I was backpacking in the BOB. (Thats the Bob Marshal Wilderness prime grizzly country just south of Glaicer park)

Seems another backpacker just got done shooting and killing a sow as she was coming up the tree after him.(44 mag hand gun)
When asked whay he didn't spray her. His andswer was a couple of days before he dropped his spray and some rocks and holed it so it was empty. Some of are party has spray some has guns I too have carried both.

In the dozens of times I have hunted, camped and backed backed in bear country I have had no trouble I keep and very clean camp and a watchful eye.

I wonder what my other freinds here would do if they just carried spray and in the frist couple of days of a week or longer trip they dropped and holed spray can. Or they used it and it was empty I really don't think one reloads them.

Most would probably continue on with their walk in the park. If i were forced to use either, i most likely would have to return home and regain my composure. 30 yrs in N Idaho and never seen griz don't want to unless across a wide canyon. Many blacks even a sow with cub that let me know i was not welcome. One of the few times for me unarmed in the woods.
Sounds to me as though you have good common sense of the outdoors and self preservation.
Dick

Seen two Grizzys in the Bob. One was far enough as not to worry. The other was about 50 feet but was moving away at a fast clip.

My buddy was in front I wanted to know how come no close up pictures. He told me it is hard to take pics while holding on to a 10mm delta elite. That is what he carries.

But I seen lots of big tracks back there.

To all concerned. I dont carry a self defense weapon specifically used in defense against bears. If I am hunting I carry my rifle. When I am bowhunting bears there is usually a shotgun with slugs in someones hands. Pepper spray IMO is useless. p dog the story I told you a little about was a not a 458 both hunters were shooting 340 weatherbys I know that for a fact as I have discussed the events of that mishap several times with the primary victim, his name is Creg, I worked with him for some time. I guess that if you want to carry a .38 for bear have at it. I would not reccommend it from what I know and have personally experienced hunting bears. The call is yours to make, years ago when I was more concerned with bears and the danger they pose, I carried a Colt Anaconda 44 Mag every where I went up here, fishing, hunting, I always had it on me. Years later I realized I was toting this huge heavy pistol around under the belief that if I ever needed it I would have it, that wore off as I got to know baer behavior a little better and spent a significant amount of time around them. I carry the appropriate weapon for what I am hunting and nothing more. If I am gonna get eaten, then I am going to get eaten. If you are going to enjoy Alaska you cant live under the beleif that bears are hiding behind every tree just waiting for you. You'll go crazy. I have done things that you would probably think is unsafe and or stupid but we are all different and to each of us danger will be defined differently. I have killed my share of black bears and have had several close calls while bow hunting griz just havent been successful yet, and I assure you that some of the predicaments I have gotten myself into would scare you shitless, like being inside of 30 yards of mature Griz boar that is dialed in on you with no firearm at all, or crawling on hands and knees in bear tunnels through the alders to access an awesome fishing spot on a creek. We each define our risks differently. I am going on a brown bear hunt in 22 days and wake up (not counting) on the Alaska Peninsula, and I am taking my 300 WM shooting 200 grain A-Frames, I cant tell you how many people have looked at me like I am crazy for not shooting something bigger. To each his own.

quote:

Originally posted by AlaskaCub:
To all concerned. I dont carry a self defense weapon If I am gonna get eaten, then I am going to get eaten. I have done things that you would probably think is unsafe and or stupid I assure you that some of the predicaments I have gotten myself into would scare you shitless

I could not agree with you more. Sounds at least a little foolhardy or maybe bear bait?
Be looking for you in the news. LOL
Dick

Bigholes

Man you did that kind of like the New York Times changes what the republicans say. I am gonna call O'Reilly, this is the no spin zone!

Alaskacub no one said a thing about a 458 if you read my post it said 358 win.

And we could be talking about 2 differant storys as you said te 70's most likely 30 plus years ago.

I guess you haven't read my other posts I have never said I carry a 38. I have always said that it that is what you have then it is better then a rock,fist,or sharp stick.

I guess you don't have any fire exstingshers in the house. In my opinon the same theory applys if the house is going to burn down then the house is going to burn down nothing one can do about.
One should not wear a PFD in a boat because if one is oging to drown one is going to drown.
I guess one should not wear seltbelts in a car because if one is going to die in a car crash one is going to die.
I guess when I go rock climbing I should not use a rope because if Iam ment to fall of the cliff it going to happen any way.

I guess one should not carry a compass or GPS matchs ect because hell If I get lost and die I get lost and die.

A pistol or any other safety equipment is only needed if something goes wrong then it doesn't do a you bit of good if you left it at home did not buy ect.

I never would force any body to carry that a free choice.

Whatever floats your boat! Get after it!

An Atheist was taking a walk through the woods.

What majestic trees!
What powerful rivers!
"What beautiful animals!" he said to himself.
As he was walking alongside the river he heard a rustling in the
bushes behind him. He turned to look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly charging
towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path.
He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing in on him.
He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer.
He tripped and fell on the ground.
He rolled over to pick himself up but saw the bear right on top of
him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.

At that instant the Atheist cried out:
"Oh my God!..."

Time stopped.

The bear froze.

The forest was silent.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky:

"You deny my existence for all of these years, teach others
I don't exist, and even credit creation to a cosmic accident. Do you
expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a
believer?"

The atheist looked directly into the light, "It would be hypocritical
of me to suddenly ask You to treat me as a Christian now, but
perhaps could you make the BEAR a Christian?"

"Very well," said the voice.

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And
then the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together and
bowed his head and spoke:

Lord, bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty
through Christ our Lord, Amen.

My God I love it. You must be a Catholic

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

.....Do think that mother that had her child killed in TN yesterday is better off today for not being armed. Do you think that if she was armed with a .38 she would have done more harm then good as the bear is attacking and killing her kid......
.

I see women on the road who cant keep between the lines,or put their lipstick on straight in the morning, now your asking them to shoot a moving bear whos got a hold of your child.
Would not spray be better, then the child has a much better chance of survival, than it would have if hit by the high likelyhood of an offcourse bullet?
Unless you have the rare kind of woman who is gutsy enough to go and put the muzzle against the beasts skull.

The woman was gutsy enough to attack the bear with her fists. I guess she could have use a gun that close.

I know some women that shoot better then a lots of guys I know. They would have no trouble placing a round where needed.

Not catholic, sorry.

On pepper spray:
Given the choice I would use a gun, pretty much any gun, before I would want pepper spray.
However, I have used pepper spray and been sprayed myself for qualification purposes. I was hit directly in the face with 500,000 Scoville Heat Unit (SHU's) and I was completly unable to open my eyes unassisted for about 20 minutes or so and I had a water bucket and water hose nearby to rinse my eyes with.
I have sprayed convicts with 2,000,000 SHU and got some of it on my hand. 24hrs later my hand still felt like it had been burned with steam.
No man, I dont care how tough he thinks he is, can take a direct hit with 2,000,000 SHU's. Unless he's on some serious drugs.
Now to my point. For bear, the various agencies I've looked into carry 5,000,000 SHU's for protection. On a human this would be close to a 3rd degree burn and is not used in any law enforcement or corrections facility that I know of.
While I would rather have large caliber hand gun than spray, the spray that is used on bears is not the same stuff civillians can buy at the store. Most of what civillians can buy is around 100,000-150,000 SHU's.

Ryan,
On the spray thing. The bear spray that you can buy over the counter is what strength? One is made by some compant DUP or something like that. I have carried Mace that I got from a policedman friend while hiking in the GSM NP and I accidently nailed my self and if my wife had not been there and able to wash out my eyes I would have been in deep poop.
Jack

Winggunner,
I'm not sure of the strengh of the over-the-counter- bear spray. The highest I've ever seen civillians able to buy was 200,000shu's. Thats not to say that there isnt stuff out there that is stronger.
The 5, million shu's are generally issued by folks like the Federal game wardens, park rangers, forestry dept. etc.
Something that hot on a human is going to be burning a long time reguardless of how much they have access to eye rinse.
To be perfectly honest with you, I probably wouldnt trust anything bought over the counter.