I think the BTs are fantastic varmint type bullets but Im not sure that I want to bank on them for larger game. I love their high BCs and accuracy but take away the plastic tip and all they are really is a glorified hollow point. Im thinking for deer sized game Im better off with a SP. What are your thoughts?

In the smaller calibers (.25 and under ?) the heavyest BT's have thicker jackets to control expansion for deer hunting.
From .270 up they are designed for deer sized game.
As far as effect, IMHO they work great. Using 30cal 150gr BT's, I've had complete pass thru on all but one deer (that one was only 35yd away and facing me) at 150yd they've gone thru entering at the top of hip and come out at the neck.

In 30-06 and 308s the 160 and 180 grain BalTips do fine on deer. They can't stand up to 300 winmag velocities on the close shots, though.

They open aggresively and really put the smaller southern whitetails down with authority, which makes them a great choice in the SC swamps.

When the animals start getting over 200 lbs on the hoof I'd rather have a Partition.

My experience with the BalTips is two years old, and I hear sporadically that they've changed the recipe a bit. ???

Don

Like the others have said, the big game caliber Ballistic Tips are designed for larger game. Don't compare them to the lighter 22 and 24 caliber BT's. They are constructed differently, for a different intended result.

I shoot 140's thru my 7mm-08, wonderful bullet.

I use Ballistic Tips almost exclusively: 50-55 gr .22 cal, 115 gr .257 cal, 120 gr 6.5 cal, 140 7mm, 338 200 gr, and 358 225 gr. All have worked extremely well on the size game they were intended for. I am ready to try my new 375 260 grainers on elk this fall. The 338 200's worked perfectly on a small spike bull last year.

Dr. Lou

BT is one of my favorites in most calibers. I have used then from 95 grain in 243 to 180 in 300 wby and has nothing to complain about. Ideal hunting bullets when shoot gets long. Very accurate a true missile

A plus for the BT is that it will survive brute feeding magazines. Great bang for the buck

[ 06-23-2002, 23:31: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

have used BTs almost exclusively in .284 BLR and .270 for a good many years. very happy with results. .284s usually 100 yds and under, .270 Win. out to 325 steps. just behind shoulder rib shots mostly, dead always. use 'em with confidence.

I was a bit skeptical of these bullets but my 7mmRem Mag Sendaro shoots 150 grain BT with IMR7828 at 3050ft/sec into 1'' groups at 200 yards so I gave em a try.
I've taken maybe 6 caribou from 100-250 yards and the results have been good. The bullet exits on side shots or slight quartering shots and the wound channels have been good and not excessive. Accuracy is amazing and the bullet would be a great choice when the range gets long. I wouldn't use them for anything over 350 pounds or so but for light big game they work fine.

Gun tests magazine has tested them in various factory rounds. They find they loose their cores very easily, far more so than other big game bullets.
Deer aren't hard to kill. Almost everyone I know who uses them on deer likes them.
But, there is always that less than ideal hit that requires some penetration to reach the vital organs. Or that 1 in 5, to 1 in 10 buck, that doesn't go down with a good hit. I want a good blood trail in that case.
Since we have better performing bullets, there is no reason not to use them. E

Elk and Caribou huh? Damn I was thinking mule deer.. I suppose in the larger calibers that might work alright but Im afraid Im still a little sceptical about the wisdom of using what is essentially a hollowpoint on anything larger than a whitetail, but all this positive feedback must have something too it. Maybe Ill give them another look. Thanks for the replies.

By the way I know that they are supposed to have a tapered jacket on the larger calibers. I cut open a .308 125 grain to satisfy my curiosity. I wasnt impressed with the taper claims and the frontal area of it seemed "very" soft however, the midsection did seem to get quite a bit stronger as I cut it. I think of all the BT type bullets the Hornady SSTs would probably be most suitable for larger game because of the innerlock ring. Not as much bang for the buck though.

Sure they will work great on classic broadside shots but I would not use them on going away shots and I take them as they come so I'll use a partition thank you...My criteria with any game bullet is it must be capable of complete penitration from any angle...My favorite being the 200 gr. Nosler partition in the 300 H&H and the 180 in 30-06...

I too am in a "to use or not to use" dilema with the BT's. How does the Sierra Gameking compare with the BT? Are they both aggressive expanding bullets? Would you expect more penetration out the Gameking? Thanks.

C-ROY

Yes, Ballistic Tips' cores do tend to separate from the jacket, as does any non-bonded core bullet. What is different with the ballistic tip is the substantial solid base of jacket material, which appears to contribute to accuracy, and also helps with penetration.

In shooting into various media, I have found that ballistic tips give better penetration than other conventional bullets and are only a fraction short of partions in penetration.

Just as with any other bullet, the smaller calibers with lighter bullets are for varmints, the medium calibers with medium-weight bullets are well-suited to deer thru caribou, and the larger calibers, (8mm and up) are suited to elk and similar-sized game.

True, they don't always leave a blood trail to follow for a half-mile; they just leave a dead animal a few steps from where it was shot.

Wstrnhntr said, "I think of all the BT type bullets the Hornady SSTs would probably be most suitable for larger game because of the innerlock ring. Not as much bang for the buck though. "

SST's come 100 to the box versus 50 for the B-Tips. The SST's I've seen offer more bang for the buck, not less.

Regarding B-Tips, I shot a 170-180 pound whitetail buck through the shoulder with a 180 B-Tip from a .308. Chrono'd muzzle velocity was 2575-2600 fps. Distance was about 50 yards. The deer ran about 50 yards and went down.

The onside shoulder was a jellied throw-away. There was a tiny exit hole on the offside, apparently the bullet base making its way through. No blood trail at all.

Yes, the deer died in short order. Personally, I expect a 180 grain bullet at .308 velocity to leave a bigger exit hole in a whitetail, even if shoulder bone is hit. I like blood trails. B-Tips are not my bullet of choice. The 125 Barnes-X at 2950+ fps has provided me with excellent performance on 4 animals.

Being experimentally-minded, however, I may try SST's this fall.

Good shooting,
BigIron

By jove your right Big Iorn! That is more bang for the buck! Ive been a big Speer fan for a long time but the closer I look at Hornady bullets the more I like them.. Ill bet theyre the most underrated bullets on the market.

C-Roy,

I also cut open a gameking, next on my list is a interlock and a hot core (anyone got one they want to donate to the cause..? ). I expect they both (BT and Gamekings) are easily subject to core seperation but the gameking wont expand nearly as fast making seperation a little less likley. The BT had a stepped core which Im certian contributes to seperation, but the Gameking once cut open was easy to remove the core, moreso than the BT. My impression of the Gameking is that its a very plain Jane sort of bullet with a deep core. The BT seems to me that its made to operate within a certian velocity/penetration window.

"but I would not use them on going away shots"

Hey Ray... This was a going away shot, actually two of them. One of them came to rest between his shoulder blades (after destroying over a foot of backbone). The other one, a security shot, ended up in his brisket. Both of them entered through the right rear ham. Oh, btw, it was just a lowly .25/06 100gn BT at around 3500fps, and he fell in his tracks. I don't load anything else!!!!



I've killed nine or ten deer with the .25/06 100gn/115gn combo and all of them fell almost in their tracks. With the exception of one buck that was running when I shot him, he went 18 yrds with a bloodtrail that looked like it came out of a cheep slasher movie. My question is, do shooters drive the BT fast enough? I've never had a "failure", and the only two bucks that I shot twice were dead on the first shot. Here in LA (Lower Alabama) if you have any doubts you shoot him again. In both cases I made the second shot before he could fall. All of the loads that I use have been chrono'd at over 3400fps and will shoot sub 3/4 moa.

Eric

[ 06-25-2002, 05:27: Message edited by: Eric J ]

I have taken over 30 head of game with ballistic tips including antelope,mountain goat,bighorn sheep and both mule and whitetail deer(several over 300 lbs live weight)with the 100 gr 257 ballistic tip and 140 gr 7mm ballistic tip and both moose and elk with the 180 gr .308 ballistic tip.Cartridges used were the 257 wby,7mmstw and 300 ultramag with muzzle velocities from 3400fps to 3500 fps.To date I have not experienced a single bullet failure and not one animal has travelled 50 yds after being hit.Most including elk and moose have dropped on the spot.

I've used 130gr BT's in my 270 on about 10 or 12 deer and found although VERY accurate, I loose a fair amount of meat to hemmorage.

On another note, all of them were hit broadside behind the shoulder at ranges from 60 - 180 yards, and none of them went more than about 40 or 50 yards after the shot. Close to half (4 or 5)dropped on the spot. All these deer were all one shot kills.

I now stick to Nosler Partitions with the same results and don't seem to loose as much meat.

I have shot bt, par, cor loc, inter loc, and game kings. My bullet of choice is none of the above. I now exclusively shoot the barnes xlc. seat it .030 off instead of the recc. .050 though. The xlc will open on the close shots and the long ones. never had one fail. they leave a nasty wound channel and a good blood trail. As far as I am concerned, the xlc has all the others sucking hind tit.

A few years back, I did the shooting of deer for the owner of a game farm which catered mostly to the restaurant business. All of the shots had to be away from the neck, shoulder, filets, and rumps, or the restaurants wouldn't accept them. This left 2 options: a head shot, which I won't attempt, or a broadside shot behind the shoulders. The deer I was shooting were either Fallow Deer, or Axis Deer. Over a 4 year period, I shot 264 deer, all 1 shot kills, and everyone went down within 50 yards if they didn't drop immediately. I used a Brown Precision 7mm Remington Magnum, topped with a Leupole 3.5X10X40 scope in Leupold rings and bases. I used the Nosler Ballistic Tip in 150 grains, at 3350 fps. And I always used a short Harris Bi-pod from the prone position. Every shot was between 45 and 130 yards.

Eric,
Good good for you and your wonderfull success. I sure hope it keeps up, but I suspect that sooner or later you will loose a nice buck based on what your telling us...fortunately these type of bullets work most of the time, a saving grace indeed...

Mike 375,
A 150gr BT @3,350 from your 7 mag? Geeeez, I gotta get rid of my 7STW. That ol' girl was only launching the 150's @ 3,300 and using a ton of powder to boot.

However, I have found a new load that will shoot the 140gr Bt at 3,577 and drppped a 3 shot group into .5" at 200yds. Makes me smile.

Both the Nosler BT's and the Hornady SST's shoot exactly the same when fired from my rifle.

VH

[ 06-30-2002, 05:44: Message edited by: Varmint Hunter ]

Hello,All.
In observing many hundreds of dead deer over the last 50 years,the most single bullet damage that I have seen,by far,was done with a 150 grain Ballistic tip from a 30'06 rifle.
He hit a nice 8 pointer high in the left rump,from the rear. The bullet hit the leg bone and EXPLODED. the ham was completely demolished,and shrapnel pelted the other ham,destroying it pretty much,as well.
The BT is certainly a good killer,but you do pay a price in lost meat.
Frank

I have to disagree with the guys who say the BT does not work well in .300 mags. With all due respect you are giving your experince of one or two kills. I shoot them exclusivly in my .300 win mag with great results. Been doing so for about 12 years and can't remember how many deer I have taken with them. Have always used 165 grain but switching to 180's this year. I have shot deer from 50 yards out to about 400 with great results. Always a pass thru when the shot is right behind the shoulder. Usually only an exit hole as large as two of my fingers. Yes I have has a couple large exit wounds but it was shot placement that caused that. One being a doe last year I hit high in the spine the other being a small doe I shot at 50 yards and hit a rib on both entrance and exit. Both of these had fist size exit holes. Acually the spine hit was one big hole where it took the whole top of the back out.
As far as smaller cal. I load them in 30-06, .300 Savage and .308. Might load them in .260 Rem this year. My family has done well with these bullets.

I love ballistics on deer from the 270 and 7mm stw.

Frankly, the ballistic tips are too soft for the 7mm stw at under 300 yards, but they are so accurate that i use them anyway.

500Grainer

My 7STW and 140 BT made quite a mess out of a large Pa buck a few seasons ago, although he was quite dead, as you may have guessed.
The Hornady 139 SST shoots just as good as the Nosler BT's (in my rifle) but is said to be of a heavier construction and less likely to over-expand on high velocity impacts.
I have had great results on the range, out to 600yds, but have not shot any whitetails with this bullet yet.
VH

Hey Ray,

I related a story a while back where I shot a 150 grain BT outa my -06 at a huge muley going straight away. It went in the center of the hind quarter, busted the hip joint, exited the front of the hindquarter, re-entered about the last rib, tore the hell outa the right lung, broke the right shoulder, exited and then re-entered the lower jaw. The bullet was under his tonque. It still weighted 137 grains and was the classic mushroom shape. The range may have had something to do with it though, as it was over 350 yards and had slowed down a lot.

I've been using the 150 BT in my -06 since they first came out and the 140 in my .280 and the 100 in my .25-06 for over 12 years, and I've killed hundreds of deer with them. I have yet to see what all the fuss is about. I've shot them in the head, in the spine, through the shoulders, in the neck and a few lengthwise. Distances were from point blank to over 400 yards. They ALL virtually dropped in their tracks.

I use 165 Speer Grand Slams or 85 grain Wasps for elk though.

100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips in a .25-06 "kills like chain lightnin'".

Varmint Hunter and Mikeh375 are getting "real world" velocities out of thier 7 rem Mags.If there were an award for the most underloaded factory ammo and low velocity loads in reloading manuals I'm sure the 7mm Remington Magnum would win hands down.My 24" M700 does 3375 with a 140 Ballistic Tip over 68 grs of IMR4350 and a CCI250 primer.A very flat shooting deer load in a very underrated cartridge.But like everyone says, "they aint any better than a 280".Problem is no one as of yet can show me a 280 that will put those numbers on the chrony.AS for the BT"s, I haven't taken game with them in the 7Mag yet, but I've seen a few 95's out of a 6mm take some decent deer with one shot kills.

I like the 165grBT in my 30-06 Improved. It actually has more energy and less drop than 150gr at longer ranges. Very accurate, too. I think it holds together better than 150gr which does mushroom a lot at high velocity.

Hey Griz,

I agree wholeheartedly on the trajectory and energy comparo 'twingst the 150 and 165.

When I started testing 'em way back when, what got me to usin' the 150 was accuracy, pure and simple. The first load I tried (MAX) with the 150s out shot my 168 Sierra MatchKing target loads - sub 1/4 groups. I never even tried the 165s in that gun.

In .257 cal. the 85 grainer is a varmint bullet and should not be used on deer sized game. In my experience the 100 grainer is much tougher than the 140 or 150 7MM or the 150 or 165 .308. I've never tried the 180s.

Hello all!
Well iv'e just read enough about how good or bad bt's are.
1.whoever it was that gave the deer the texan heart shot,well enough said on his shooting capabilities!!
2. look at the reloading charts on this site and it will tell you that bt's break up when shot fast, and thats without hitting anything!!!!!
Wow they are really made well!!!
3. twice the price!!!
4. yes they do make a 85gn hunting bullet, but it's not any better than the varmint bullet!
5. they are better in the larger calibers than the smaller hot rods.

We shoot anywhere between 100-150 deer a year,
we process a further 300 carcasses a year, I seen just about every imaginal shot,recovered bullets from just about every orafice,and if bt's were the only bullet available,then I'd buy a catapult!!!
so stop going on about how good they are, accurracy wise they are o.k but when it comes to holding together there are far better bullets out there.
They are twice the price and only do half the job!

griff

Griff,

You're judging these bullets on price, other peoples results and your attempts to use a varmint bullet (85gr) out of a 25-06 on deer. When all's said and done that is not the basis for a well argued case.

I reckon using BTs would cost you an extra �30 a year - you could probably save that much by using normal cleaning methods for brass and avoiding wrecking your cases In fact if you really wanted to save money you'd ditch that powder swallowing 25-06

I use them in my 6.5, animals fall even quicker than my RN hornadies in my 7x57 and I don't get any less for the carcass. I shoot one extra roe a year and I'm even - that's MY experience.

hi 1894
my experience is not based on other peoples results. have tried the 100gn bt's and the 85gn C.T.hunting silvertips (which is not a varmint designated), both failed! I think that we have been over this ground before 1894.
we both concluded then that you cannot drive b.t's at 2506 velocity.
and as for getting rid of my powder burner!!!
perhaps one day i will trade it in for an o'l mans gun say a 6.5-06!!!

good hunting 1894
griff

Griff,

Didn't realise you'd tried the 100gr too - apologies. As you say we're stirring the same old pot......

Cheers

I have used the 7MM 150 gr Bt on deer for several years with great success. All the deer I've shot dropped dead in their tracks. Not a single step! This year I will be trying the 6.5MM 120 gr BT in a 6.5-284 Norma and my son will be using the same bullet in a Ruger 6.5X55. I can hardly wait!

I used 100gr bt in the rsa. I took kudu, gemsbok, 2zebras, and lots of other smaller plains game. The bt worked well for me. The ph was so impressed with the 25-06 he wanted one.

I have recently witnessed two 430lb red stags taken with the 7mm 140 grain BT at 2650 fps. Complete penetration - one broadside the other slightly quartering. Both shot at 70 metres or thereabouts.

Always had very good accuracy from BTs.

And the camouflaged pigeon shooters? Have you sorted it out yet?