CWD has been found in 2 captive/preserve deer.

The most recent confirmed buck came from a facility in Holmes County and was discovered to have the diease at a preserve in Guernsey County.

We border Holmes County. I haven't heard of any wild deer killed that have tested positive yet.
A little too close for comfort though.

Tom

https://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmed...rspan=2018&nrsearch=

This came out on 22-March this year, and this was NOT a captive deer.

Ok, Crazyhorse but it is and captive in Ohio.

The two preservers have been or were quarantined. And Ohio Department of Wildlife is heavily monitoring wild deer in those counties.

The bottom line is the diease is passed by bodily fluids including saliva. Large deer farms in feed lot practices to grow breeder stock, commercial seaman production, and commercial urine has played a large role in this disease spreading.

We are doing now in KY. It is very hush, hush, but yeah folks are farming the, worse than race horses. Only a mannor of time until the diease is confirmed in KY.

To date no CWD has been confirmed in KY.

Thank you Colorado Game and Fish for introducing this plague on North American wildlife.

What a crock of shit this has turned out to be.

quote:

Ok, Crazyhorse but it is and captive in Ohio.

I am not arguing that point, just posting a news item from Texas Parks and Wildlife concerning the ongoing issue of CWD across the country!

quote:

Thank you Colorado Game and Fish for introducing this plague on North American wildlife.

I could be wrong on this, but I think if you will check, Colorado DOW had nothing to do with it.

The disease started on the Federal research Center at Fort Collins and when they started losing animals, before the causitive agent could be isolataed, funding was cut and instead of destroyiong the captive group, they cut the fences. I do not believe they even talkied it over with state game officials.

One of the biggest problems, I believe, is that no one REALLY knows how it starts. They have all the research about prions and how they believe those are thought to be transmitted, but not how it begins.

For instance, there is no scientific answer to how the deer in Issaquena county in Mississippi was infected when it is hundreds of miles from any other known infection site. Same with the one in Oneida county New York and the two northern counties in Montana. No scientist thinks it just "flew" there. They simply don't know how it STARTS. Until they do, it is a serious and mysterious disease. Kansas was going along with about 14 cases per year and then jumped to 74 in 2015, but back to 14 again after that. They have no clue why or why it didn't spread as the sky is falling crowd thought.

A LOT more research needs to be done, but no one wants to fund it any more.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Ok, Crazyhorse but it is and captive in Ohio.

I am not arguing that point, just posting a news item from Texas Parks and Wildlife concerning the ongoing issue of CWD across the country!

quote:

Thank you Colorado Game and Fish for introducing this plague on North American wildlife.

I could be wrong on this, but I think if you will check, Colorado DOW had nothing to do with it.

The disease started on the Federal research Center at Fort Collins and when they started losing animals, before the causitive agent could be isolataed, funding was cut and instead of destroyiong the captive group, they cut the fences. I do not believe they even talkied it over with state game officials.

Got it. It is a wildfire. I think the diease was always in some wild populations, but pen deer and transporting deer allowed the diease to bloom.

I do agree no one seems to know what causes the prions to mutate (my word) or develop. I read in I think Peterson’s Humting while my wife was grocery shopping that the feds have just about stopped allocating Federal dollars to he diease.

In Pa. the game department checks WILD deer for CWD at the rate of 2% of harvest but requires deer farms to test 100% fatalities and 50% harvested deer...seems as though the game department is not serious about the prions in the wild.

quote:

Got it. It is a wildfire. I think the diease was always in some wild populations, but pen deer and transporting deer allowed the diease to bloom.

Sorry, I have been monitoring this since the original outbreak in Colorado.

From what I have found in researching the subject, is that if a deer breeder/high fence hunting operation has a popsitive case of CWD on their property, ALL animals on the property, deer/elk are destroyed.

As I stated earlier, CWD started on a Federal Research area outside Ft. Collins Colorado, but before the researchers could identify the pathogen thay was causing the unexplained deathjs of the animals at the facility, funding for the program was cut and instead of destroying the animals still at the facility, the fences were cut and the animals released into the wild population.

I remember quite well the conversation I had with the guide I hunt elk with in Colorado. I had a Late Season Cow Elk Tag and he phoned me and asked if I was still going to come up and hunt.

I said I was and he told me that 8 hunters had backed out because of the CWD outbreak.

I do not really agree with the high fence hunting operations, but a lot of folks do. I actually wish that hunting deer in Texas had not went the direction it did, but it did and it is not going to go away.

If you will do just a little research, white tail deer in America suffer die offs from Anthrax, Blue Tongue, Epizootic Hemorraghic Disease and other less well known maladies.

The deal is, the Genie has been let out of the bottle and trying to lay the blame at any one groups feet, other than the Federal Government for NOT taking the precautions they should have, destroying ALL of the animals in the infected group instead of releasing them, WITHOUT discussing the situation with Colorado DOW!

in 1965 the Colorado Dept of Wildlife Foothills Research Station put captive pregnant mule deer does in a facility that had held Scrappie infected sheep. When the fawns were weaned the does were released back into the wild. Over the next couple of years mule deer were traded/transported to several other research stations, zoos, and private land holdings. Mule deer began to get sick and were later ID'd as having a TSE disease, naming it CWD. The original studies were done by Colorado State grad students and Drs, one of whom later ID's the disease as CWD, Dr. Beth Williams.

I stand corrected, Thanks for that info.

Crazy, the feds have a research facility at the Colorado State campus also.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Thank you Colorado Game and Fish for introducing this plague on North American wildlife.

What a crock of shit this has turned out to be.

Thanks should be directed at the game farming industry.

The transfer of captive deer and elk is the reason CWD was not contained locally to the site of origin.

When Canada was discussing allowing game farming, all the provincial and federal policy
advisors not directly tied to game farming gave the same first priority reason for NOT allowing game farming, the inevitable spreading of serious diseases. And here we are now....

quote:

Originally posted by walking buffalo:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Thank you Colorado Game and Fish for introducing this plague on North American wildlife.

What a crock of shit this has turned out to be.

Thanks should be directed at the game farming industry.

The transfer of captive deer and elk is the reason CWD was not contained locally to the site of origin.


When Canada was discussing allowing game farming, all the provincial and federal policy
advisors not directly tied to game farming gave the same first priority reason for NOT allowing game farming, the inevitable spreading of serious diseases. And here we are now....

I agree 1000 percent wholeheartedly with this. Note this does not necessarily mean high fence hunting, but these farms feed a lot of preserves style canned shoots in just about every state now: Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky all have these massive 200 inch plus pen raised, artificially breed, genetic deer. All have places with small enclosures were you can pick out your 200 inch buck. The concentrated feeding stations or pen feeding and urine collection are where the diease is spread to other deer. If any of the infected deer escape it is only a matter of time before that deer through breeding, scrapes, licking or senting glands passes the diease to a local wild population.

Can high fence hunting be done right, yes. I accept that and have said that. That is vastly different than theses pen raised operations that treat game like commercial stock or race horses. There needs more strict rules whether from the industry or legislatures.

I tried really hard not to start this debate game farming debate. I limited my post to the raw facts. I have committed the worst sin. That being participating high jacking my own thread. My goal was to inform with the raw facts (I did that) and let folks come to there own conclusions bc this was not reported in the national/main stream hunting press.

I would like to know where these perseveres got these deer and where else the original source of these two deer shipped to? If this were cattle and hoof and mouth diease they would trace back to the original herd and quarantine there and move out to other areas stock was shipped to. Who knows where else infected animals may have been sent to.

High fence game farms ARE NOT responsible for the initial spread of infected deer from the origin at Ft Collins. The Foothills Wildlife Research Station started this dispersal all on their own. They shipped infected deer to a number of locations, including a Canadian zoo. And released infected deer into the area just north of Ft Collins that is now the "endemic zone" for the disease.
In the late 60s no one kept good records of where these deer and their offspring eventually went, compounding the problem.
Since the 80's high fence operators and other landowners have been responsible for almost all movement of infected deer.
LHeym, in the early 80s one could back trace every single sick deer straight back to Ft Collins.

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:
High fence game farms ARE NOT responsible for the initial spread of infected deer from the origin at Ft Collins. The Foothills Wildlife Research Station started this dispersal all on their own. They shipped infected deer to a number of locations, including a Canadian zoo. And released infected deer into the area just north of Ft Collins that is now the "endemic zone" for the disease.
In the late 60s no one kept good records of where these deer and their offspring eventually went, compounding the problem.
Since the 80's high fence operators and other landowners have been responsible for almost all movement of infected deer.
LHeym, in the early 80s one could back trace every single sick deer straight back to Ft Collins.

I agree. I am saying that the diease has been able to spread due to game farming. Particularly, to the East. It appears that we are not going to stop but continue practices that allow the diease to spread.


It does not seem that we can trace deer back a source now. At least, I have not been able to find out where these two deer came from. If any body knows (which I doubt), it appears it would take a Judge and a freedom of information order to get an answer.

What is worrying on another level (I know the current science is the diease does not spread to humans, but avoid spinal/brain contact) is there is a rise in trendy game/venison restaurants across the country. A fairly new such restaurant has opened in Louisville. Of course all these restaurants must source game ranches meat. So, the demand for farm raised venison shipment ands thus stock has increased. The effect being more pen raised stock is needed.

There is a pen raised deer farm less than five miles from my house. I wonder where those deer come from. Deer are curious creatures. Wild deer come right up to the wire pens to check out the deer inside. These pen raised deer are feed in close proximity to one another like a small feed lot. I think it is Russian roulette. They are raising these deer for semen and venison for the commercial market.

To date CWD has not been identified in KY. Time will catch up to us.

All I know is that each state is taking CWD seriously and anyone keeping deer or elk, are monitored closely and mortalities arev reported and investigated and if the motalities were/are the result of a pathogen, the entkire group is destroyed.

I agree that one can't trace origins back from present day. Many of the exposed/infected deer were moved illegally so no paperwork or at least not accurate paperwork.

The main mode of movement of infected deer in the last 30 years has been a truck of some kind. The movement from NM to far west Texas was probably natural movement, but it was only a short distance. Those big movements have been by truck/trailer.

Those folks at Colorado State in the 1960 were operating under an accepted lie that TSS diseases were species specific and could not cross the species barrier. This was proven wrong
in the 1980s and 90s with Mad Cow Disease. An unknown disease was identified at Ft Collins in 1967, but was not identified as a TSE disease in 1978.

My fear is that CWD WILL be found to be transmittable to humans. It has already proven to jump the species barrier to other Cervids in the wild, and to several other species in the lab.

I hope I am very wrong.

From the information I have seen, eating some organ meat or the spinal cord is discouraged.

It seems like I remember some folks in Arkansas/Louisiana serveral years back dying from something they picked up from eating squirrel brains.

The brains of deer and elk were one of the organs that was specified to not be consumed.

This prompted Indiana to put out a pretty lengthy survey on CWD reaction plans for the state. We have not had any CWD positive deer, but the assumption is that we will in a short time.

DNR is gauging the tolerance of the state's hunters to eradication verses simple herd reduction practices.

Bottom line, we aren't getting out of this one any time soon.

Jeremy

Eradication does not work. Once the prions are in the soil from deer waste they are there for a very long time and cannot be destroyed. The researchers at FT Collins poured hundreds of gallons of bleach in those research pens, then diesel/gas and burned the soil. Newly introduced healthy deer soon contracted CWD from the soil.

A link that could suggest that the disease can be transmitted to humans is being studied. The CDC has found that certain monkeys that were fed regular muscle meat from infected elk contracted the disease. This is as close to humans as they can confirm so far.

CDC and CWD in Monkeys

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:
Eradication does not work. Once the prions are in the soil from deer waste they are there for a very long time and cannot be destroyed. The researchers at FT Collins poured hundreds of gallons of bleach in those research pens, then diesel/gas and burned the soil. Newly introduced healthy deer soon contracted CWD from the soil.

Which is way some states have banned the use of urine based scents.

I would bet that more CWD is spread from guys killing deer in areas that have CWD and taking them home to butcher, than by Game Farms.

quote:

I would bet that more CWD is spread from guys killing deer in areas that have CWD and taking them home to butcher, than by Game Farms.

The point is, the biologists really do not have a handle on the disease and how it is spread!

Unless or until some definitive answers are made public, it is a guessing game.

Texas Parks and Wildlife is monitoring the situation as much as possible.

Because deer hunting in Texas has evolved the way it has, the possibility/probabilty of the disease spreading across the state, is very real and will affect the entire state.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
For instance, there is no scientific answer to how the deer ...was infected when it is hundreds of miles from any other known infection site. Same with the one in Oneida county New York... No scientist thinks it just "flew" there. They simply don't know how it STARTS.

"In New York, the disease was found in 2005 on an Oneida County farm after its owner, taxidermist John Palmer, donated venison to be served to as many as 250 people at a fundraiser for a local fire department.

Like other farmers, Palmer says the disease originated in the wild. But New York tested 31,000 deer from 2002 to 2010, and the only places CWD was found were in and around the Oneida County farm and another farm to which Palmer sold deer. Scientists consider it a near mathematical certainty that the disease entered the state through Palmer's farm."

I would argue that it indeed "flew" there. Rural NY taxidermist (unknowingly) takes in CWD infected heads/skulls from, say, Colorado. Throws meat/tissue scraps out on the "back 40" to feed the coyotes. Prions got in to soil, his herd and some escapees contracted CWD.

The main point is it could be that simple for CWD to be spread. More info can be found at The Chronic Wasting Disease Alliance

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I would bet that more CWD is spread from guys killing deer in areas that have CWD and taking them home to butcher, than by Game Farms.

I think you would lose that bet because most states don't allow an unbutchered animal from out west to come into their state. Most require that the animal be at least quartered, the backstraps removed, and the carcass not brought back with the meat. They also require the skull and cap to be cleaned out and off so it's completely devoid of anything but the bone itself.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I would bet that more CWD is spread from guys killing deer in areas that have CWD and taking them home to butcher, than by Game Farms.

There is no way in Hades that is anywhere near true. High Fence folks and other landowners are 99% responsible for the spread of CWD since the mid 80's.

How did CWD spread so fast in Colorado in the Free Ranging population???

These two Ohio cases are were found on preserves in these two counties. Who knows where they came from.

In KY it is not legal to bring in a whole deer from a state with CWD. Of course, enforcing this must be near impossible we boarder 6 states. Meat must be boned out and no brain spinal chord (ie head can be brought in).

The diease is spread from soil contact and fuilds . A buck will range what four miles during the rut. How many rubs and scrapes will he touch, branches liked. Every deer he touches has a high probability of infection. Every deer that visits those rubs and scrapes has a high probability of infection. The diease, from my understanding, will be dormant in a infected deer, but transferable. Then it becomes math. Finally, deer move in and hit those mineral licks, scrape lines, bedding areas and the diease will be picked up.

Can/do fawn fetuses contract the diease during incubation?

quote:

Originally posted by erict:

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
For instance, there is no scientific answer to how the deer ...was infected when it is hundreds of miles from any other known infection site. Same with the one in Oneida county New York... No scientist thinks it just "flew" there. They simply don't know how it STARTS.

"In New York, the disease was found in 2005 on an Oneida County farm after its owner, taxidermist John Palmer, donated venison to be served to as many as 250 people at a fundraiser for a local fire department.

Like other farmers, Palmer says the disease originated in the wild. But New York tested 31,000 deer from 2002 to 2010, and the only places CWD was found were in and around the Oneida County farm and another farm to which Palmer sold deer. Scientists consider it a near mathematical certainty that the disease entered the state through Palmer's farm."

I would argue that it indeed "flew" there. Rural NY taxidermist (unknowingly) takes in CWD infected heads/skulls from, say, Colorado. Throws meat/tissue scraps out on the "back 40" to feed the coyotes. Prions got in to soil, his herd and some escapees contracted CWD.

The main point is it could be that simple for CWD to be spread. More info can be found at The Chronic Wasting Disease Alliance

Since we have went there, this is very damning to game farming industry. I have long said let wildlife be wildlife; not stock. The horse has left the barn, but does anybody know what the hell Fort Collins was trying to accomplish. As described here, their actions rate up there with the Fed program that paid a doctor in Miami to give LSD to a dolphin.

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I would bet that more CWD is spread from guys killing deer in areas that have CWD and taking them home to butcher, than by Game Farms.

There is no way in Hades that is anywhere near true. High Fence folks and other landowners are 99% responsible for the spread of CWD since the mid 80's.

You would be wrong.The Wi.DNRs response to CWD was to try and kill every deer possible in the affected areas.There was virtually a 6 month non stop season in those areas.Anyone could get as many tags as they wanted.This was a heavy agg area with tons of deer.Guys from all over the State and other states came to shoot deer.If the deer showed any signs of being sick the State would run a test on them.If not they went home with the hunter.Most hunters in Wisconsin being cheap bastards ,butcher their own deer(Me too).Now CWD starts showing up in counties with no game farms.Do the math!!!

In the long run, what does it REALLY matter where it got started or how it is continuing to spread?

Long range view is that CWD has the ACTUAL potential to wipe out all or most of the deer and elk in this country.

Crazyhorse: I think you are mostly right. But it seems the system is to lax in allowing farm or pen raised animals to be bought and transported spreading the diease.

Is the genie out of the bottle? Mostly, but can we not stop doing the same thing over and over again that allows the spread.

Forgive me for asking twice, Can or does the diease spread to fetus in incubation?

Peterson’s Hunting had a little article about this Congress cutting funding to combat CWD. This is as big an issue maybe bigger than the import bans for hunters. This Fepublican Congress seems to have used hunters to help come to power only to ignore our concerns.

Whenever animal numbers become too high,nature seems to have a way of lowering them.Animals that walk on two legs fall under the same rules.If there is a way to stop this ,fine.Running around yelling the sky is falling,the sky is falling solves nothing.I have more important things to worry about.OB

I guarantee and the Fish and Wildlife agree we do not have too many deer in E. KY. We have 500 acres and 6 resident deer. We are not allowed to shoot does in the firearm season should not in any season. Folks are talking about a five year suspension of deer hunting in E. KY.

Any day someone is going to get an infected deer shipped into the state, and it will destroy what little herd we have left.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Crazyhorse: I think you are mostly right. But it seems the system is to lax in allowing farm or pen raised animals to be bought and transported spreading the diease.

Is the genie out of the bottle? Mostly, but can we not stop doing the same thing over and over again that allows the spread.

Forgive me for asking twice, Can or does the diease spread to fetus in incubation?

Peterson’s Hunting had a little article about this Congress cutting funding to combat CWD. This is as big an issue maybe bigger than the import bans for hunters. This Fepublican Congress seems to have used hunters to help come to power only to ignore our concerns.

CWD can, and does, infect the unborn fawn . The symptoms for CWD usually will not show up for 1-2 years, maybe longer.