I know it has been asked before but I plan on building a custom rifle in the near future and looking for some ideas to toss around. What I have in mind is a "go to' rifle to pretty much cover the spectrum of hunting in the U.S. Of course there is no perfect do it all roundn order to keep it somewhat well rounded I will exclude big bear from the criteria. I'm sure I will ask for opinions concerning other parts of this project later but for now I am interested in what action and caliber you would chose and why?

I do have a couple of actions and a few calibers in mind but will not mention them yet as I am interested in your ideas, not opinions of my ideas<not to be rude if that last statement sounded that way The only two things I will stipulate at this point is that the action itself should not cost more than $600.00, and the caliber should work well in a 22 inch barrel.

I would go with a 30-06 built on a Winchester model 70 classic action. The 30 cal has a very wide range of bullets available and is more than suitable for everything from coyotes to elk. Since you stipulated a 22" barrel I would stay away from the magnums as the shorter barrel would reduce powder burn and lower velocity. I cna't remember the guys name but the first person to take all the major big game species in North America used a 30-06.

I agree that I would start with a Win M 70 Classic Featherweight in 30/06. It might shoot just fine as you get it and then all that you have to do is tweak the trigger yourself. If of course if some things don't satisfy you then start changing stuff.

Another option is to get a Montana SA www.montanarifleman.com and have a custom barrel put on. While there are just a few left at $350 by the time your done the fancy barrel and stock could add up to $1200! Of course the SA will not handle the 30/06 but one of the WSM's would be a nice cartridge.

Is this what you are looking for?

I want to add that it was Grancel Fitz who got the first Grand Slam on sheep and hunted all over the world with his custom P17 in 30/06.

[ 06-12-2003, 06:26: Message edited by: Savage99 ]

Thanks 257AI and Savage 99 for the quick responces. One more thing I would like to add is that caliber can be factory or wildcat.

'06, m70 or m700.
.308 would do it but, the'06 will let you use some heavier bullets.

I'll reiterate what the others have said and say "go with the 30-06"! It has such a great reputation in the US and abroad for a reason . . . it works! A 165 grain bullet of proper construction would be ideal for pretty much anything in NA (except perhaps moose or bison) and the 220 grain round nose bullets (either x-bullets or monolithic solids) will theoretically do for anything else on this continent or any other. Hell, Jack O'connor's wife shot her elephant with a 30-06 loaded with solids. I love the 30-06 can you tell? An added bonus is that 30-06 ammo will be in a gun store somewhere . . . wherever you need it to be from Alaska to Zimbabwe.

I'll also reommmend the model 70 in either std. or featherweight configuration. It may take some tweaking and I would probably do a trigger job and have a qualified gunsmith slick it up a bit but for the money, it would be tough to beat.

Best Regards,

JohnTheGreek

heavy varmint,

There are a few that I think would fill your needs. I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased, but I think it would be hard too improve on the .30-06. Some others that would do a pretty good job for you would be the .280 Rem, .308 Win, .284 Win, 8mmx57 and if you want to stay with a short action, the .30-284 which will approximate the .30-06 performance. The Rem. M-700 is a fine action with the best factory trigger around (IMHO). Replacing the factory firing pin with a speed lock firing pin will also give you the shortest locktime available. With the availability of these, it should help too hold the price down. Good luck.

I too would consider the .30-06 for the largest choice of bullet weights and it works well with barrel lengths from 18.5" to 24". My own preference for actions would be for the Savage 110 but since you are building a custom rifle I would go with the Ruger 77 MarkII.

[ 06-12-2003, 19:30: Message edited by: savage49494 ]

I was going to suggest 300 Win Mag until you stated that the rifle had to have a 22" barrel. Given that, I would have to agree on the 30-06.

I would go with a M70 Featherweight. In fact, if it were me, I would only go with a Pre-64 M70 Featherweight in 30-06.

Tim

I too will go along with the 30-06. While the controlled feed model 70 Winchesters are nice, my preference would be for a Model 98 Mauser for the action. A search of gun shows can usually dig up a J.C. Higgins Model 50 from Sears. Very nice FN Mauser action. I've had one rebarreled to 7x57 that is a tackdriver. Another in 30-06 is strictly stock with the exception of being in a Butler Creek synthetic stock. Another tackdriver.
I have been considering a serious custom rifle myself. The action will be a J.C. Higgins 50, that's a given. I think though that I'll go with a 24" barrel, possibly with a 1 in 12" twist. As I already have several 30-06s, I'm not sure what this one will be. Kind of torn between the 30-06 and .35 Whelen. Considering the hunting available to me, the Whelen really isn't necessary.
Weell, regardless of what I do decide to make it, the Mauser action is a firm given.
Paul B.

the 35whelan or the 338-06 would be excellent choices but may not have quite the reach nor veratility of an 06. The 30-06, loaded with 200gr partitions or grand slams is some strong elk medicine.

No question, the .338, particularly with the lighter X bullets which are available now. This is exactly what I have been using in this role for over 15 years. I own about 30 rifles, but unless there is some overwhelming reason, the 338 is my hunting rifle. I have used it for everything from antelope to elk and it always performed perfectly.

I am presuming in all this that varmints are out, since there is absolutely no caliber that is good for varmints and any NA big game. That said, I have killed several coyotes with the 338, and pelt damage was less than with most smallbores.

Art pretty much hit it right on the head. I pretty much have my choice of guns to shoot and my "go to" gun is a 338 win Mag. I have taken everything from small deer to elk and it has worked great every time. I have tried all the various bullet weights and have come to the conclusion that you can not go wrong with a 250 grain for everything. I have killed deer with the 250 sierra, hornady and nosler bullets and they all worked great and there was less meat lost than with a 270, 7mm, or 300 mag. The same bullets worked very well on larger game like elk. So for a all purpose shoot everything INCLUDING big bears you can not go wrong with a 338.
Russ

I'm not a .30-06 guy, but if i wanted only one rifle (what a sad thought) to hunt NA & most of the rest of the worlds game, I think you would be hard pressed to better the old '06'. What I like about it over the mags is you can build it into a reasonably comfortable 7# rig. Load a 165grNp for sheep, goat, etc. Load it up w/ 200grNP & you can whack the biggest moose or elk even Eland & not feel under gunned (whatever that is). If you are bldg. from the action up, I would split the diff. & put a 23" bbl. on it. I love my .338s but they are a bit heavy for a mountain rig, they will shoot pretty flat though w/ a 210grNP @ 2900fps +.
For me, a .280 & a .338mag cover the bases. Throw in a .375 ro .416 for DG & you have everything covered.

[ 06-13-2003, 04:42: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

30-06 or 338 WM... either work to perfection with a 22" bbl. Really, the 338 WM is "just" a 30-06 on steroids. The 338 WM does with a 210 Partition what the 30-06 does with a 165 grainer and the 338's 225 grainer is the equivelant (BC, SD, PBR) of the 06's legendary 180 grain loading.

If you don't mind more shove and if big animals are on the agenda the 338 WM wins hands down. IF big animals are a once in a while deal and you're not interested in a lot of recoil the 06 gets the nod.

The 338 WM and elk hunting are a match made in heaven...

BA

Wish I could be original but I'm gonna have to agree with these guys. Only thing I would change is that I would use a stainless Montana 1999 action. I'd then put on a nice Lilja tube, a McMillan stock, and then top it with a Leupold 3.5-10 or 2.5-8, and feed it Partitions.

Good luck on your project.

I too like the the .30-06 and the Model 70 action. (My own "main" rifle is a M70 Classic in .30-06)

If, however I was going to have a custom "do everything" rifle built it would be a .338-06 on a Sako action. It will do everything the .30-06 will do plus it can handle heavier bullets. It nearly keeps up with the .338 Win Mag, at least until you get to throwing the real heavy-weight bullets, and it does it using less powder. Brass is easy to find, just neck up .30-06 cases, and good quality bullets in a wide range of weights are produced by all the major manufacturers.

I Guess Ill stir the pot a bit. Nothing wrong with an 06 but if O'connor's wife can kill an elephant with one, than surley anything short of a big bear in NA will surrender to a 308. That does include things other than Elk, right? The 08 has a nice inherent accuracy tangible and is better suited for a lightweight rifle. Hell, it isnt unusual for it to show BETTER velocity than an 06 with a 165 grn bullet and the way they make bullets thesedays that is enough to penetrate the almighty elk.

From there on down in the bullet weights for the smaller species it just shines on and will do a decent job with 180s in a pinch.

I agree with Paul on the FN Mauser, that is an excellent way to start a custom.

I'll pick a classic M-70 action, a Douglas barrel chambered in .338-06, a classic stock made from laminated wood, and a compact scope from Luepold.

You build your gun, and I'll build mine!

"The North American" rifle, in my humble opinion, is "The Alaskan,"and should work just fine with a 22-inch barrel. I prefer 24" or longer barrels, but those who already have cut their .338WM's to 22" rave about their rifles. There are plenty of lightweight bullets for it, as well as bullets from 210, all the way to 300 grains, and from all bullet manufacturers.

Wstnhntr, the 308 shoots a 165 faster than a 30.06? HUH? I would disagree with that comment. Its been my exp. that the 06 will shoot all 30 caliber bullets faster than any 308. But hey thats just been my exp..

Interarms Mark X, in 30-06, or, 308(M1A?).

CZ Safari Magnum in 375H&H, or 416 Rigby, if large bears are in the equation.

Also consider old Winchester, and Browning, 458, or 375's, and hold the salt.

s
PS
Some old, guy wanted a 338 OKH for grizz. Anyone know what that caliber is???

[ 06-14-2003, 10:02: Message edited by: Socrates ]

socrates

PS
Some old, guy wanted a 338 OKH for grizz. Anyone know what that caliber is???

333okh is a ,3006 necked up to 333 by C O`Neil , E Keith , D Hopkins. So 338OKH must be a 338-06

Kimmo

Action: M70 stainless stell classic CRF

Caliber: .308 Win

One bullet for everthing: Barnes 168 XLCBT

I have no doubt the 168 X from a .308 will penetrate deeper than a 200 gr Partition from the .30-06 and still expand quick enough to tear the lungs out of the thinnest N.M. pronghorn. I also have no doubt that the 168 Barnes with a mv of 2600 fps would easily take the biggest bear in Alaska from 300+ yds, dependent on the shooter of course.

I have seen the phenomena of the .308 obtaining higher velocity than the .30-06 firing 175 gr and lighter bullets with both rifles having 18" barrels. I doubt it will happen with 22" barrels, and would not even consider it possible in longer barrels provided there is no problems with the '06 barrel.

I'd go with the regular old 1963 version .300 Winchester Magnum as my only rifle for N. America. It'll do all that the .30-06 will do plus more, yet it's still a very shootable cartridge that's widely available. My second choice (a close 2nd!) would be the .338 Win. Mag.

My own custom .300 Winchester is built on a Model 70 action with a McMillan stock, a 24" Kreiger barrel, and a 3.5-10X scope. This is really the best all-around rifle I've ever owned, and I'd copy the same gun all over again if I were to build another.

AD

RuffHewn, I agree with almost everything you said. I see you are ex military therefore I understand your confidence in that calibre and bullet weight. I also agree with the higher velocities in shorter barrel lengths. Where I don't agree is shooting a grizz at 300+ yards with a .308. Can it be done? Certainly. Definitely not recommended. If one "had" to shoot one at that range, you wouldn't want much less than a .340 Weatherby with 250 grain Barnes X.

Have you considered a .338-06? I shot one in New Braunfals at the Linebaugh seminar. Recoil was tolerable and the rifle was very accurate. Once we go the holdover down, 55 pound rams at 500 yards were not hard to hit and the bullets were taking them off the rail with some authority.

With a 22" barrel I would also say 30-06! Why try to reinvent the wheel? My choice of action would also be a Win model 70 classic.

Yes it's true that the 308 can excede the 30-06 with lighter bullets weights if one keeps all loads within SAAMI pressure specs. This is because the max pressure on a 308 is 53,000 cup and the 30-06 is 50,000 cup. The reason for that is the 30-06 is an older round and many different types of rifles including pump actions and semi auto back in the 20s and 30s. But in a good bolt gun and loaded to the same pressures with the same bullet weights the 30-06 has the edge becase it can hold more powder. Bht heck, why not just look around and find your self a good Pre '64 Model 70 Winchester in 30-06 and be happy. I just got home from the range and mine shot 3 shot groups that I could completely cover with a quarter at 100 yards with 168gr BTHPs including a couple of 1/2" groups.

heavy varmint;
I've got a little different twist on this than most of the posters. First, to possibly save you time reading this, I like med.-bore rifles.That said, I would suggest a .358 STA or a .375 H&H IMP., Weatherby, or Ultra.This is assuming that you handload (my choice is the .375AI).The above rounds shoot plenty flat enough for pretty long shots, and have plenty of muscle for all N.American game.
Both can be loaded down for informal plinking or small game, or loaded up for big game. With the .35 cal. you have both cast and jacketed .358 dia. handgun bullets for plinking and small game (inexpensive and wide selection). With the .375 your low power options include both cast and jacketed bullets for the 38-55 Win.(used in Cowboy Shoots) and an abundance of good premium bullets for big game.
I went to a .375 in 1982 and have never had a desire to change. From "prairie poddles to Cape Buffalo ( must be good as there aren't many here in N. America)", now that's versatile! -memtb

Hvyw8t & Wstnhntr. You are both right, and both wrong. The .308 is loaded to it's full safe potential from the factories and is hard to improve upon by handloading, although Hornady and federal have done it using special non-cannister powder and special loading techniques. They have the .308 equalling the 30-06 in velocity and the 30-06 getting quite near to basic .300 magnum specs.
In general factory ammo though, I've seen some high quality brand name 30-06 that was slower than the same brands .308 Win. I'm of the opinion that due to the fact that there are still lot's of old 1903 Springfields around, not to mention original and replica 1895 Winchesters, that the factories are down loading the good old 30-06 because of liability concerns. The good old .270 Win. has been downloaded because the Remington pump guns couldn't stand up to the pressures of the original. The .280 has never been loaded to it's full potential and neither hasd the .35 Whelen, again because of the remington pump gump, old 1895 Win. that have been rebored and of course the old 1903 Springfields that were either rebored or rebarreled to the Whelen.
Now if you load the old 30-06 to it's full potential, you will be quite close to factory .300 H&H specs, and in certain rifles, might just equal it. Gun writer John Wooters once told of a 24" barreld 30-06 he had with a 1 in 12" twist barrel that would spit out a 150 gr. Nosler PT at a hair over 3100 FPS. He wouldn't give the load, but as I have a rifle with 24" 1 in 12" twist, I have considered trying to see if it could be done.
Oh yes. If anyone tells you a 1 in 12" twist will not stabilize a 220 gr. bullet, tell them they're full of it. Might not work with one of the new 220 gr. spitzer boattails, but my rifle will put 3 shots into an inch with 220 gr. Sierra RNs. I have one Winchester Mod. 70 in .308 Win. that will push that same bullet to 2300 FPS and keep three in 3/8". So much for the 220 gr. bullet being too heavy for the .308.
I wish some of those "eggspurts" in the gun rags would try checking some of that stuff out before repeating what someone said 50 years ago as gospel.
JMHO.
Paul B.

I am somewhat surprised. I thought I would be a lone voice for the 30-06.
The late Grancel Fitz (I may have misspelled his name} took record trophies of every big game animal in North America.

He used a Remington M30 {I believe, it is the one which was a modified Enfield action} in 30-06. As I have read, he was interested in hunting, and the rifle was just a tool.

The 30-06 has the level of recoil that most of us can handle, and has a flat trajectory with the proper bullets out to 500 yards.

It has a range of bullets designed to expand at the 30-06 velocities, and is adequate with good shooting for any animal on the continent.

I would not prefer it for the big bears, but if that was what I had I would use it.

More powerful rifles have enough recoil that the average hunter cannot always shoot them well. Experience by many men have proven that. I know there will be a string of folks who will say that recoil does not bother them. I have heard that for 50+ years. However, when they get a misfire or have to shoot fast they all flinch. Maybe Elmer and the African PWHs do not, but you probably will. I am 90% certain.

When I shot skeet, I heard many men say that recoil didn't bother them, and then sooner or later they would get a squib load, and nearly jump off the station. I would always comment that for someone that recoil didn't bother they sure had a bad flinch.

I once thought that I didn't flinch until I had to shoot fast and knew when the rifle was going off, and found that I shot low. Investigation revealed I was pushing the rifle. It is also a problem in handguns, as those who shoot much realize. It is a nervous reaction, and doesn't make you a sissy.

Of course as for me, I know I am a sissy, and I don't need my head kicked off to prove it.



Jerry

I am not the biggest 30 caliber fan (guess cause everyone else is), but you sure can't go wrong with one.
I would go 280 Rem. on the light side or 35 Whelen. on the heavy side.

heavy var.,

I think if I were going to hunt withg one gun it would be the Model 70 Classic in 7WSM or 300WSM.
It is a nice handy rifle and could be loaded up or down depending on the game.

338 winchester or 375 H&H if you hunt serious stuff where big bears live.

270, 280, or 30-06 if you stick to the lower 48. Personally I would chose the 30-06 as the low end for elk and moose, however I prefer the 338.

My personal choice is the Remington action for most North American hunting. The Remington makes an exellent platform for a light weight and accurate general purpose hunting rifle. There are others of course.

Have fun building your toy.

Jamie

In fairly recent times, J.Y. Jones used a .30-06 Remington ADL to accomplish the same feat as Grancel Fitz. He had the advantage of using handloads instead of factories and , if I remember correctly, they were all with either 150, 165, 180, or 200 grain Nosler Partitions.
Interesting that he wasn't a handloader but had a friend load for him. SO, based on that and my own experience here and elsewhere, another vote for the soon to be 100 year old .30-06.

Rich Elliott