This occurred yesterday here at Cape Lookout, NC. At 11:00am around 25 Boy Scouts registered with the Park Service to paddle on kayaks about four miles to Cape Lookout island from Shell Point Ranger Station. Yesterday there was a 30 knot head wind and the Rangers should have never allowed the Scouts to attempt to make the paddle.
At 5:30 pm I heard the mayday call on VHF. The situation was bad when I got to shell point. Fire and EMS had just arrived. Ten of the boys scouts had been missing for over three hours and several of the boats were capsized. Everyone was extremely emotional. One father had been separated from his son after his son capsized and he could not get to him. He had last seen his son three hours earlier. Sea Tow immediately went out and they found several kids throughout Core Sound away from their kayaks. They ran about eight miles from Beaufort. The US Park Service had four boats in their US Government Marina not even two miles from where some of the Scouts were last seen. The Park Rangers would NOT leave the dock to go out and do search and rescue. The Coast Guard did arrive and pull two out of the water. The remaining scouts were found by private citizens that heard the call on the radio. Thank God that all of the scouts were rescued. We reference the Cape Lookout National Seashore as Nazi Germany. They will write a ticket from almost anything. It is bad when a governmental organization prioritizes conservation over the protection of human life.

Just another sore that needs to be healed or eradicated. Glad that all the scouts are okay.

Wonderful that the kids were all rescued. The Park Rangers should all be fired. Someone and all those parents should contact their Congressman and Senators with full details of this pusillanimous episode by the Rangers.

In addition, while thankfully it didn't come to that, if there had been loss of life, there is little doubt that the Park Service would have been on the hook for millions as a result of issuing the permits in those weather conditions.

i had some dealings with the park services years back and this is just what i would expect from them

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
i had some dealings with the park services years back and this is just what i would expect from them

They make terrible neighbors also.

Am I the only guy who thinks the gov't is not responsible for stupid decisions? I assume there was adult supervision involved.

I don't want the government telling me what I can and cannot do.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Am I the only guy who thinks the gov't is not responsible for stupid decisions? I assume there was adult supervision involved.

Nope, though they should have had the good sense to keep a bunch of kids off the water. And if the park service did have rangers and boats available to support the search effort and they refused, they should be ashamed of themselves if nothing else.

I just finished BSA paddle craft safety training. Based on that training and the limited information I have of the conditions leading to this clusterf&*k, I would not have allowed my scouts on the water. Their adult leaders should have been likewise trained and rescheduled the trip.

I feel those that sent those kids out in bad weather conditions should be arrested for at least attempted murder charges. Whether it's dismissed or not it would be on their records of being stupid and not caring etc.

Typical of the gov'mnt IMO.

Last year I requested a replacement to my stolen lifetime pass card that was in my wallet.
After four tries they finally sent one. Since then, every 3 weeks I get the same survey. I made the mistake of filling it out 2 or 3 times.
Just last week was the 14th of the very same one!! I wrote on the envelope: "RTS 14th MONTHLY survey", this is the third time I've done that too. Idjits!

Great all the kids were rescued. I sure figured most would have drowned when I started reading the OP.

George

quote:

Originally posted by DesertRam:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Am I the only guy who thinks the gov't is not responsible for stupid decisions? I assume there was adult supervision involved.

Nope, though they should have had the good sense to keep a bunch of kids off the water. And if the park service did have rangers and boats available to support the search effort and they refused, they should be ashamed of themselves if nothing else.

I just finished BSA paddle craft safety training. Based on that training and the limited information I have of the conditions leading to this clusterf&*k, I would not have allowed my scouts on the water. Their adult leaders should have been likewise trained and rescheduled the trip.

I have a hard time believing the NPS would not try and rescue those kids. Capt Purvis, are you sure that was the case?

Here is some of the crap the NPS has to put up with (SPOT is a satellite emergency notification device):

Examples of rescue-beacon gaffes now abound, like the infamous 2009 "triple play," when a group of fathers and sons in Grand Canyon National Park activated their SPOT three times in less than 48 hours because their water tasted salty. Another Grand Canyon hiker triggered her device out of concern over her tentmate's loud snoring (she didn't think to wake him up). Then there was the Backpacker magazine editor whose SPOT accidentally went off inside his backpack on a Denali expedition.

Thank goodness they are all safe but my question is: Where were the scout masters? The NPS hadn't a clue as to the skill sets of the scouts nor their leaders. The responsibility lies with the scout masters.

The were with Staff Members from an area Boy Scout Council Summer Camp. Similar to a Philmont type of trip. The Staff Members made the poor judgement call. The Park Service should have advised them it was not safe to make that kind of paddle. The next day they were going to paddle about 30 miles North to Cedar Island. The park service never left the dock. I double checked with the Scout Master and Staff members in charge because I had a hard time believing this as well. If this had occurred in 15 degree cooler water it could have been very bad.

I can not believe the camp did not have a powered skiff with that many young kids. "Be Prepared" is what I reminded the staff members. Some of these boys were 11 and 12 year olds. We haven strong currents around our islands and inlets and there is normally an afternoon or evening thunder storm. They do not call this area the Graveyard of the Atlantic for nothing. The staff members themselves were kids and did not have enough experience or respect for the open water.
I would double check all of the credentials from the Staff Members before allowing my sons to go on this long of a paddle trip. I think the total distance they paddle is almost 50 miles. I know that it would take a good amount of conditioning for my muscles to be able to make that paddle. A person drowned yesterday on Atlantic Beach which is only nine miles away. That makes a total of five people that have drowned this week due to high rip currents here on the Crystal Coast. There have been Red Flags on the beaches and warnings all week. Headline on the local paper yesterday was all about the drownings. Things can go bad real quick on the water. These kids learned a life lesson yesterday. I gave the staff members my card and told them to text me their itinerary when they were going to make their next trip.

Agree that there was pure negligence and stupidity involved on the part of both the Scouting leaders and the Park Service. Sounds like the group was attempting to complete the 50 miler afoot/afloat award.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Agree that there was pure negligence and stupidity involved on the part of both the Scouting leaders and the Park Service. Sounds like the group was attempting to complete the 50 miler afoot/afloat award.

Thinking the same here. My troop's Scoutmaster had his dumbass moments but I don't think even he would attempt that.

Why would a group of Scout leaders, and you Capt. Purvis, try to blame the Park Service for their own stupid decisions? The Park service was not in charge of the group and it was not their responsibility to make a decision as to the safety of the trip. Seems like our country has evolved into a blame-game society where we blame everyone except those responsible.

The blame game at its best in the USA today, that's what I see here.

Its high time we started taking responsibility for ourselves..One should know when to get out of the water or to drive sober, or to not do stupid stuff..Its always the other guys fault when things go south.

If I choose to hunt Buffalo or Elephant and I get hammered, I won't blame it on the PH and I won't file a law suit..

I feel sorry for those kids, but all seemed to have turned out well, and the fault could probably go to a lot of folks if you investigated it..Ive seen the Park Service, the forrest service and the BLM save a lot of lives in search parties, evacuations, every year in Idaho. Every year more than a few fire fighters die in fires, a few get shot, beat up and all manor of events take place we never hear about...

Enough of this stuff, were making the lawyers rich..

Sole blame is on Scouts alone ( adults )
That'd be like here in MT or Idaho when you go hiking in bad weather and blame USFS
Really?

I agree with my fellow Westerners.

The scoutmasters and parents are to blame.

NPS should have given support, but the hows and whys of that not happening could be from a lot of different angles.

USCG is probably primary SAR for your area, maybe the state troopers as secondary. I don't know anything about your area. The Navy and Marines might be third or second.

If you are that concerned bout it call the USCG office and ask to speak to the PAO about the emergency response. I'd also call the local county sheriff, and the state troopers.

You could also call Sec Zinke and ask him why.

quote:

USCG is probably primary SAR for your area, maybe the state troopers as secondary. I don't know anything about your area. The Navy and Marines might be third or second.

Well, let me be clear that I don't agree with the ability to sue over such situations, but it's there, we, the people of the US allow it, and, many of us, when the opportunity arises for whatever reason, are first in line at the lawyers offices, often before the funeral is over. It's all fine and dandy to be on your high horse, saying, "I won't sue.".....well, of course you won't, you'll probably be dead. Ask your relatives. Many, but not all, will look for the money.

I'm kind of vague on details, but this happened a couple of years ago and I'm still outraged at the result. A man and, I believe, his two adult sons, took a boat out of a Florida inlet, in poor conditions, tried to come back in, crashed on rocks at inlet, and called Coast Guard. For some reason, CG did not respond promptly and boaters died. The family sued CG and won about $10 Million. I was and still am angry over this, since any SAR unit, is not, IMO, a guarantee of safety or rescue. The courts obviously held differently in this case and, I suspect, if the results had been more tragic in the above instance, might have viewed the Park Service in the same light.

Did they actually go to court?

The military normally usually just settles out of court. It is cheaper (according to them).

BWW:

I don't recall, it was a blub in the magazine "Soundings" and it really pissed me off, but some time has passed, and I am very vague on details. As a matter of fact, I am not certain it was in Florida, but seem to recall that it was.