The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting grrr...land owners....Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| grrr...land owners.... | Login/Join |
| one of us |
i was hunting today on state land and shot a forked horn muley. it must have been hit in the chest because there was a blood spot ~ 1.5' in diameter with ~6" of froathy blood in the center. the blood trail lead to a fence and private land. i then got in my truck and tried to call the owners to get permission to get the deer (which was probably dead within 100 yds of the fence). we were parked on a dirt road ~1 mile from where the deer crossed onto the private land when gal in a truck pulls up and asks us what we were doing. i explained the situation and the gal said she was related to the owners and they did not want any hunters on their land. what a bunch of crap. ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif){kind=icon} | ||
|
| one of us |
So some lady who claims to be related to the land owner says he doesn't allow hunters and you abandon ship. Hugh? Chuck | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:she is the sister of the guy that owns the land and she was adamant about no hunters on their land. what was i to do, argue with her? | |||
|
| one of us |
we called an left a message on his phone. after that, we called some other people that knew him and they said he went out of town to watch a basketball game. there should be a law that gives hunters the right to retrieve animals which were shot on public land and then die on private land. | |||
|
| one of us |
What I have seen is a lack of being neighborly. The worse offenders are people who live in the city and buy land out in the country. I well let anybody hunt on my land as long as they treat it well. If your a neigboring land owner the only rule I have is if you hunt on mine I get to hunt on yours. Works fairly well. But I have run into propblems when people think that it is their city lot and if some one walks on it the land well be hurt.Unless the person was a real jerk I wouldn't turn anybody down to recover game.The one neigbor I have that it hasn't worked out with owns less half the land I do. I made him the offer he saids he doesn't want anybody on his land. I thought to my self heres a chance to almost 3 times your hunting area and you well not take it Duh. So I end up going around and leaveing him sit there. What he doesn't realize is that is land is so so hunting and I want to just take the short cut. But then he is from the big city and knows it all. | |||
|
one of us |
quote:EX , as unfortunet as this is, for you,and the deer, there is one thing you need to understand, and though you may not like it, you answered your own question! The words "LAND OWNER" is the key here! If this were my land, I'd not only let you go in, and retreve your deer, but I'd help you find, and gut it, but that's me! There is one thing most hunters seem to have chosen to overlook, and that is, in the USA, a man's land is his castel, and he has total control over what takes place on that land! This failier to remember who owns the land,by hunters, is one of the reasons so many parcels of land have become posted! Our family ranch in the North end of the Texas HILL COUNTRY, had a outside border of some 30 miles, yet was never posted, but there were plenty of folks who did not ask, or damaged the property, who were asked to leave, and not come back, because they did not respect the ownership of our land. The land owner is not restricting your rights, they end at his property line. The loss of that deer, as unpaletable as it is, is simply something you will have to accept, if the LAND OWNER will not allow you on HIS property! Sorry, about your loss, and the wasted deer. ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} | |||
|
| one of us |
Haven't you ever heard that it's easy to apologize after the fact than to get permission first? I would have retrieved the deer. The land owner doesn't own the animal. Bob257 | |||
|
one of us |
Bob257 Thanks for making MacD37's point. | |||
|
| one of us |
I'm sorry for this situation... My game warden always told me to just go get the deer, but don't take a gun. Our laws might be different here. While it's unfortunate that the land owner is so adamant, it is the right of the owner of the land to be so. We have had problems in the past with hunters "recovering" animals on our property which did not happen to be wounded until they were shot illegaly on our property. So, I suppose the land owner could say, "grrr...damned hunters." Unfortunately, one very minor side-effect caused by private ownership of land. Perhaps if ALL hunters were as courteous and ethical as we claim to be, this problem would be resolved. | |||
|
| one of us |
One way not to encounter this problem is by not hunting the fenceline. If the deer was lungshot like you said it had to be right on the fenceline where you shouldn't have been hunting. Back off far enough to where this will not happen. | |||
|
| one of us |
ya, i could have jumped the fence, found the deer and drug it back across the fence, but i knew the land was privately owned and i was doing was it right. i agree with bob, they may own the land, but they don't own the wildlife. don't get me wrong, if the same senario presents itself, i'll ask permission to retrieve the animal. what really sux is that i just switched to nosler partitions and i wanted to see the terminal ballistics here is the final insult, the land is CRP, therefore, they are not growing any crops and the gubmint is paying them rent not to grow crops. maybe there should be a law if the land is CRP, the public should have access to the land (within limits). | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:so we should have a buffer zone of say 100-200yds around private land? maybe the landower should place adequate fencing so wildlife does not get on their property. BTW, all of the above comments (including mine) were meant to be facetious ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
|
| one of us |
One of the only good things about Iowa is that there is a pursuit right. Any hunter can follow a wounded animal across property lines - but has to leave gun/bow at the fence. No permission is needed unless you want/need to take a weapon with you. Brent | |||
|
one of us |
I must admit that I am usually on the side of the landowner, but in this case, I think I would put the gun in the case, in the truck and go get the deer. If you want to get REALLY to the point of splitting hairs, without a weapon, you aren't a hunter, so therefore her refusal to allow hunters onto the property would not be violated. In this case, there is a legal responsibility to recover shot game that conflicts with a trespass law. It would be interesting to see how a court would handle this. FWIW, Dutch. | |||
|
| One of Us |
quote:The alternative would be a trespassing conviction, so he did the right thing. | |||
|
| one of us |
My wife just inherited her father's small farm (50 acres). Over the years we have seen, and been told of, several nice bucks crossing the land. I won't hunt them, though, because I fear the same thing will happen as described by exsanguinate. If that was the only place I had to hunt, I might do it, being careful to take only sure-thing shots ( I have found that a 150 grain Silvertip through the shoulders usually anchors them on the spot) The advice about placing stands well away from property lines is good. A few years back a hunter on a lease adjacent to one of our farms put his stand within ten yards of the property line. He put his pile of bait corn about 30 yards across the line on my property. I guess he thought he could get away with baiting by claiming it was not on his lease. The Game Warden didn't buy his story. | |||
|
| one of us |
In Oklahoma if a shot deer get onto private land you are required by law to retrieve it. You are not allowed to take a firearm with you when going onto the private land to retrieve it. You should try and contact the owner but if you can't you are instructed to contact the area Game warden and he will go with you to retrieve the downed animal. [ 11-17-2003, 20:37: Message edited by: Handloader ] | |||
|
| one of us |
exsanguinate You need to contact a game warden an go with him to retreive your deer!! You are breaking the law by not retreiving a animal you shot-legally. Most states require a land owner to allow retrieval of animals. If the land owner doesn't allow you to do it, they must retreive the animal and use it themselves!! Do not wastse that deer!!! | |||
|
| one of us |
I've never been faced with this situation but back in Tennessee per the game warden you leave your rifles (bows) at the fence line and go get your deer. In Tenn, I used to hunt a boundry between private property and a state game preserve and made a point of asking the warden about wounded deer crossing the line. And was told "just don't take your gun with you". | |||
|
| one of us |
I had this almost same problem in September. My wife shot an Antelope in Wyoming, but it was not a quick killing shot. The antelope ran like hell. It was about 1/2 mile to some private property, and the antelope ran over the line about 150 meters and laid down. The animal wouldn't die, but kept his head up looking around. I didn't even try the landowner. I called the gamewarden. It took him near two hours to get there. He looked the situation over and said go finish him. My wife and I marched straight over and put the finisher in him. Then we dragged the animal back over to public land to field dress him. The game warden was in full attendance with us until we were back onto public land. We thanked him for his effort and he wished us well. | |||
|
| one of us |
I think it is imperative that hunters need to find out what their state laws are involving this situation, retrieval of game that was shot on public land, but crossed onto private land, and expired. Oregon Law indicates that if an animal is shot on public land, or land that it can be legally shot on, but moves to private land and must be retrieved, then the hunter is within the law retrieving it, even on posted land. This happened to a friend of mine back about 8 yrs ago. The landowner was a relocated Californian, who was anti hunting of course. The friend went down and consulted Fish & Wildlife after the fact. The land owner just let the dead deer lay in his field, as some sort of statement AGAINST HUNTING. ( Jerk). I agree with Dutch, I respect any land owner and their property. That is why living in Oregon, I do not hunt anywhere near private land, so I don't have to deal with this. Of course, deer season on private land normally is about 15 minutes long, and you have your animal. Knowing the law, helps out dramatically when you can site them the state law that allows you to retrieve your animal. A witness on your behalf will probably be a good thing to have also, in case they want to take you to court or have you arrested for " trespassing". What a world we live in anymore. Even Montana is now infested with self righteous nuts. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} | |||
|
| one of us |
Handloader Please quote your source......I'm from Oklahoma and have never heard of the law you mentioned? I am a landowner and would allow someone to recover game that crossed the fence *IF* they asked and could prove it was shot on the other side.....if I catch them on my property without permission.....I consider that trespass and the game warden knows I will prosecute! That may sound harsh, but I bought the land so my family and I would have a place to hunt.....doesn't make much sense not to protect it! | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:How is stopping someone from recovering a wounded deer protecting your hunting? Brent | |||
|
| one of us |
state law says i need permission to retrieve the animal. without permission, the animal is coyote food | |||
|
| one of us |
Brent, If you read all of GonHuntin's post you will notice that he doesn't have a problem with the recovery of a wounded deer if the hunter ASK FIRST and can prove where it was shot. Let's all be honest here, how many of us would be tempted to DROP a 4x4 muley or a nice whitetail just inside the fenceline. I think most landowners have heard it all. Just my 2 cents Tony | |||
|
| one of us |
Here in NY, if a hunter shoots a deer and it goes where you don't have permission to go, don't argue with the land owner! Go find the nearest Game Warden and explain the situation to him/her and they are obligated to escort you onto the property to recover the deer! | |||
|
| one of us |
Brent Very simply......if they don't ask first or can't prove that they shot the deer on the other side of the fence, then I can only assume they shot it on my property.....if they shot it on my property, then they are stealing from me.....no, not stealing the deer, but stealing the use of MY land! I bought it, I paid for it, I pay taxes on it, I make improvements to it, I pay to maintain it, I plant the food plots, I hang and fill the feeders, I put out the minerals....and I don't do all that so some scumbag can use it without my permission PERIOD! Would you let someone you don't know and who didn't ask permission just drive off in your vehicle anytime they need it? How about letting them hook into your electricity or water....or maybe live in your house free of charge? Using someone else's land is exactly the same thing...the use of land for hunting, grazing, hiking, fishing or whatever has a value.... whether the person using it pays for it or not..... Funny, but it's usually people who don't own land that have a problem with landowners....... | |||
|
| one of us |
Gonhunting, a good deal of truth in what you say but in some parts of Okla as in Wy, you can see a far piece without a house or any other indication of just who owns the property. In that case, what would you do? | |||
|
| one of us |
Good question.....In my way of thinking, if a landowner goes to the trouble of posting his land......then I believe he means it.....if the sign says NO TRESSPASSING....that is exactly what it means.....not "no tresspassing unless you think it's necessary" or "no tresspassing for everyone but you" or "no tresspassing unless your deer crossed the fence" just plain old keep your butt off this property.....not too difficult to understand..... I know the game warden that works my area personally......he knows I don't mess around with tresspassers and poachers......I helped him catch 3 the first year I owned the land.....I couldn't prove they were hunting on my property or I would have filed tresspassing charges.....but I did wait for them and saw that they had an illegal deer....I got their names and tag number....game wardens like that kind of help! If I was hunting on land I didn't own.....I'd certainly speak to the person that owns the land I'm on before I crossed a fence......most landowners know their neighbors..... | |||
|
one of us |
This scenario can be ugly no matter how you look at it or which side of the fence you are on. Personally speaking, respect for the landowner requires the landowner be in the loop on this. In return, the landowner shouldn't be an asshole about the issue unless they have direct knowledge of trespass. It just doesn't always work out that way. If you live in a state that requires you to recover, respect for the landowner should still prevail, or get the FG or Deputy involved up front if you can't get the landowner involved. Respect needs to be high priority, but that is JMHO. | |||
|
| new member |
Similar incidents have happened to me over the years. In one case, the landowner stated that the land was leased to hunters and he couldn't allow me in. In the state there are a lot of landowners that own maybe a 20, or a 40 and hunt on it. At times, depending on how much the deer has been pushed, a double lung shot will allow the deer to make it onto the neighbor's property. During years of hunting on the property of my father-in-law, I had two deer make it to the neighbor's property. In both cases they shot and tagged them. I did see them shoot one of them that was staggering and almost going down. There was bad blood between the neighbors so all I could do was go back to my stand. About that time I started taking shoulder shots to prevent that from happening again. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:GH, I DO own land. Imagine that. Not only do I own land, but it has quite a few deer, which my wife and I hunt, on it among other things. Worse, it is bordered on three sides by public hunting land. I frequently see people hunting near my fences - which are mostly fallen down anyway, but easily visible. The land is also posted No Trespassing. Yet, were I to hear a shot or find someone trailing a wounded deer, I would NOT make them go find an overworked game warden who has to cover a district too large for 10 wardens, now that the republican party has gutted the IDNR's budget. In fact, I would help him find it myself. Just last month, T and I were headed for a favorite spot that is just across our property line on public land by about 50 yds. As we got close to the spot, we saw two people in orange - looked like a father and child. We waved and wandered back over to our property and set up in a different spot, knowning that it was far more likely that they would get first crack at deer coming in from a corn field nearby. I was ready to help them track it and drag it if need be, whether it actually died on my property or not. I could make it twenty times easier for them to get it out to my driveway with my tractor, rather than their hauling on foot over the river to the public access trail that they had come in on, well over a mile and rather steep. Maybe it's just me, but I'm always willing to help any hunter find wounded animals. I can determine as easily as anyone else where the animal was shot, if I have suspicions. I can simply back-track it. I don't need to hassle them or my local warden by making them march to maximum limit of the law while a wounded deer suffers or a good pile of steaks goes rancid. Brent | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:But you would be a trespasser... I don't know what the legal ramifications of that might be, but trespassing is, in itself, an offence. | |||
|
| one of us |
Everyone here is damning the landowner. Exsanguinate it sounds to me that you didn't make the best of shots and you lost your deer. Number one knowing you were close to CRP with no access why didn't you pass on the shot unless you were sure of a near instant kill?? I would have gone onto the property weaponless to retreive the animal. Failing to tag or waste a game animal IS a violation under MT FWP game laws. And I would bet that if cited by a Warden NO jury in MT would have found you guilty. FN in MT [ 11-18-2003, 17:13: Message edited by: Frank Nowakowski ] | |||
|
| one of us |
Brent We don't know the landowners history with hunters.How many times would it take for you to want protect your property.If you caught or saw evidence of people who shot deer on your side but said they shot it on public land and were just retreiving it? LEO270 And Technically in CT.,you would have committed another crime buy leaving an unsecured weapon. Having read all the above,it is us hunters as individuals that will leave landowners feeling good about hunters or having landowners say grrr damn hunters. Be polite.I have yet to be refused by any landowner.And as a landowner,I would let any hunter who legally shot a deer on another property retreive his deer from mine... If asked first.As some had said,I would even go help find and drag the deer myself.But it would leave an unpalitable taste in my mouth when/if someone felt it "Their Right to Tresspass" just because they shot a deer.Further in CT,we don't have to post our property.YOU have to know where you are. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:Who do you reckon pays the property taxes on that CRP ground? I do agree however that the landowner, or sister, should have let you go in and find your buck. If it were me who owned the land, time permitting I'd go with you and you'd be taking your rifle in also. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:i called the FWP and explained the situation. if the land owner does not give permission, it is out of my hands and i am not in violation of the law. | |||
|
| one of us |
LE, absolutely right. In Idaho, however, not making every effort to recover shot game is ALSO a crime. Hence, my comment that it would be interesting to see what a court of law would do with this conflict. In my mind, trespassing is the lesser of the two crimes to choose from. Either way, I am a criminal. Therefore, I would have to follow my own moral compass. What I find disingenuous is the comments that you shouldn't hunt that close to property lines. For two reasons. One, pop one a little high, or a little far back, and they can easily go for a half a mile or more. It happens. Second, many of the places that need to have deer shot the worst, are in areas of private land, with lots of people. You could not get away from a property line, if you tried. I also agree with the comment that hunters should be aware of the law in this regards in their state. FWIW, Dutch. | |||
|
| one of us |
Ex, I wasn't accusing you of breaking the law. I hope you didn't take it that way. I was looking for a rationale to enter the land to retreive your animal. FN in MT | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |