While I'm sorry you lost your deer there is a major problem here and someone isn't doing their job. Here's the way the law is supposed to work in Montana. If you contact the land owner and he/she refuses you access, then you call Fish and Game. At your request they are supposed to contact the landowner and retrieve your animal. If the landowner refuses, then the land owner is liable for wanton waste of game. Sounds to me like you got some lazy F+G boys in your neck of the woods or you didn't push the issue.

GonHuntin
My question for you is what are they stealing- YOU DON"T OWN wild animals!!!! God I hate this attitude!! Very prevelent in TX as well-High fense them in there mine!! Bull shit!!!

Bad experiences with hunters have poisoned what used to be friendly landowners. It doesn't seem right but it happens. We had a neighbor that let hunters in. He had some problems with them here or there but nothing big. That is until they used a pair of wire cutters to cut the new 5 strand fence he had put up a couple weeks before. He was done with hunters.

I do not believe you are in violation of not trying to retrieve game if the land owner deny's permission for you to enter his land. You have done all you can in an attempt to retrieve it.

GonHuntin,

You have expressed my sediments exactly. I let a number of hunters(20(not including the 10 disabled hunters that I give permission too) other than my family) hunt on my property every year. No charge. All I ask is that I be asked for permission. I remember what it was like when I was a teenager going up to some landowner with my stomach in knots and asking him for permission to hunt on his land. I just ask them to identify themselves and to obey a few ground rules. Basic stuff like no fires, close gates, no camping, etc.. I would never stop a hunter from retrieving his game IF he comes to me and asks before crossing onto my property. Like you said I don’t own the wildlife on my property but I am the one that went to the trouble to plant food/mineral plots to improve the deer herd and other wildlife that does reside on my property. Trespassers ARE stealing the fruits of my labor then and I do prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.

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Here's a thought....go buy yourself some land and see how long it takes your attitude to change when you have to deal with people like you!

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I wish I would have said that. I may use that when talking to some hunters(?) in the future if you don't mind? Lawdog

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This subject is not that complicated! All you have to do is respect the property lines! If you shoot a game animal, and it crosses into private property, then ask permission to enter, and retreve the animal, if you are refused entry, simply accept that as your bad luck, and move on! The animal does not belong to the land owner, but it doesn't belong to the hunter either till he takes physical possetion of it. This is exactly the same as an elk getting into a national park after being shot, you pay the price, and go home without meat & rack! The elk simply got away,to where you cannot go! A person who doesn't respect the property lines, will also be one who is most likely,to just tag another deer, and think he had every right to do so!

Trespass, is not limited to hunting, it is a man's right to control who enters his private property, no different than your right to say who may enter your house, and the trespasser's reason does not enter into the equasion. In Texas, for instance, you can't legally hunt, or go on private property, even with "WORD OF MOUTH" permision! You must have WRITTEN PerMISSION from the owner, or his agent, in your possession while on the property.

I agree, it is a bad thing to have killed the deer, and not be able to retreve it,and as I said, if asked, I would not only let you on the property, but would help you find,gut,and pack it out! WOAH be it to the man I cought on my property without that permission, however. That is the land owners right to refuse, or allow you entry. As someone above said, if all so-called HUNTERS were as responsible as they should be, none of this would be CUSSED, and disCUSSED, here! Property lines simply have to be respected, by law! We have no other choice! The total disregard of the rights of others, by some scum bag so-called hunters, has been the dirrect reason there are so few places we can hunt today! Those guys have painted us all with the same broad brush!

I've gotta agree with GonHuntin's posts. As a landowner I've gotten tired of hunter's beer cans, lunch trash, their inability to shut a gate after they've opened it, and their mistaken thoughts about a 4-wheel drive's abilities to cross a muddy pasture or climb a steep incline which leaves deep ruts that either wont grow grass for many years or will start to wash out and erode the next time it rains. I realize that I'm painting with a pretty broad brush and not all hunters are the same, but the vast majority quite frankly dont give a rat's ass about someone's property.

If you dont know who owns a piece of property stop at the closest house to it and ask. Chances are all the neighbors know each other and who owns what. I'd even guess that they can give you the owner's home phone number and maybe even their cell phone number.

Another little bit of advice coming from a landowner/hunter to other hunters is if you get permission to go onto a piece of land that doesn't automatically mean that you can go back whenever you want to or that your friends or hunting buddies have permission just because they know you or were with you at the time. This is the primary reason that I dont let anyone hunt on my land. Its easier to tell everyone "NO" right from the start than it is to get control of an access problem after it starts.

These are my personal conclusions drawn from personal experiences and I'm not trying to flame anyone, but rather show people how it looks from the landowners side of the fence.

This doesn't even take into account the liability issues of allowing people whom I dont even know onto my property. How do I know, for example, that some hunter wont get the bright idea to climb up a windmill tower to glass the area and fall off? In today's society chances are the landowner is gonna get sued because of someone else's stupidity. Thats just too big of a chance for me to take.

[ 11-19-2003, 20:04: Message edited by: Hold 'em ]

Maybe someone mentioned this, but I didn't see it. When hunting on leased land, which I did for years, part of the pre-hunting ritual, even before bow season, and in some cases before signing the lease, was to introduce myself to the adjacent landowners, and ask, among other things, if I could track a wounded animal on their land if the occasion arose. I usually started this conversation under the pretext of making certain (with them) that I knew where their property lines were (landowners like to hear this). Other than one particularly ornery fellow who threatened to shoot if we set one foot on his land, we've always had good luck with neighbors. Most landowners are reasonable about this (though less so these day for liability reasons); you can adjust your stands, etc. away from the tempermental neighbors.

Another thing that I've always felt was courteous, was to NOT erect stands right next to a neighbors fence; it just makes me look like an opportunistic, disingeuous prick. It does my rep no good for them to see treestands right up to their no-trespassing sign - just a little tacky, and the kind of thing that irritates me as a (now, as a landowner) because it makes me think they are trying to take advantage of my goodwill when I agreed to let them track on my land by increasing the probability that they will have to track on my land. It's a touchy subject, and many non-land-owning hunters are not delicate enough about these permissions.

Another thing we did was to visit the landowner (and adjacent land owners) once in the off-season, usually to drop off a small gift for their friendliness. For years we made our own maple syrup and honey, and that made for a warmly received token of goodwill. Besides, you never know where you'll get permission to hunt if you come across as "not like all those other damn hunters".

Incidentally, that fellow who threatened to shoot us was, in the end, quite taken with our genuine gestures (he didn't see even a hint of any orange or stands from his land), that he gave us exclusive rights (other than his group) to his 400 acres some years later. It pays to take this part of the hunting experience seriously.

9.3, yup. The "in your face" mentality that prevades so much of our society (have you read any t shirts lately?)now includes hunting. Down at the general store one prick was bragging that mr x hadn't given him permission to hunt his land so he built a big tree stand right on the line between mr x's land and the land where he did have a permit. He thought he was quite cute.
Alf, yup. As pogo sez, "we have met the enemy and he is us."
I think this may be one of the reasons driving the increase in leased hunting grounds. The owner only has to deal with one group of known hunters and the hunters themselves don't have to put up with the aggressive, discourteous little pricks you can run acrost on public land.

Good post 9.3 - that's the sort of attitude that I find leads to offers of more hunting ground than I can cover!

It costs nothing to respect the fact that the landowner is king in his own kingdom..

Ian

Pursue wounded game,at all cost. If you leave your rifle behind and the animal is still alive and mobile,you've created a bigger cluster fuck,because you can't put the animal down.

Let the land owner complain,call a game warden yourself. Most game wardens aren't that stupid. Even if ticketed,you're still entitled to your day in court and possibly a jury trial if it went to that. Before that ever happened,the majority of prosecutors would choose not to prosecute anyway. The land owner only has so much power over an issue like this. The judicial system still has final say.

Plenty of wounded animals go miles when wounded. Elk especially. It doesn't matter if you hunt fence lines or not,wounded animals are going to cross lines.

Being a Landowner I have heard all the excuses. I own 115 acres in north central Minnesota. During this years deer season I had hunters tresspassing on my property 4 times in a matter of less than a week. Some are so blatant about it that they shouldn't be hunting. My property is surrounded by state forest and I plant food plot and and make trails and work all summer to improve the habitate for my hunting use. Most of these trespassers are not local people and have the additude that all land is open to hunting. I have had people build stands on the edge of my property and shoot deer on my fields and leave them. I have NEVER had anyone ask permission to hunt or retrieve an animal on my land.
I had a vehicle stop on the road near one of my stands and a guy gets out and strarts into the woods. I yelled at him to get his attention. I told him that he was on private property. He heads back to his vehicle and the other guy in the truck tells him to keep going. After a heated exchange of words he finally left. Definitely had no respect for the private landowner (me). This was all after I told him nicely that if he went down the road about 200 yards he could access where he was wanting to go without crossing my land. I was sitting in my stand at the time and they had the nerve to do this within 150 yards from me.
One of the other times a guy walks out of the woods less than 100 yards from my right in front of one of my other stands while I was in it. There is no way he couldn't see my house or my stand.
Another time I had guys walk through my food plots and within 150 yards of my house 3 times I didn't catch him but If I do I will prosecute. These were all blatant disrgard for private property. I can understand a guy getting turned around in the woods but when you see a house, huge shop and fields around the house you should know you are not where you should be.
Most of the problems I have are with people from the cities, they seem to think that all land is open for there use.
So, now that I have ranted maybe you can see the landowners side. As I said I have NEVER had anyone ask permission but have had plenty of idiots try to do things right in front of me. As far as posting, yes, my land is posted. The typical excuse is of course"I didn't see the signs". If you can't see you have no business in the woods.

C&P from another board, on this same topic.

cowdoc
Senior Member

1119 Posts
Posted - 11/22/2003 : 19:58:58
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I had two mofo's from Sioux falls pull into my yard this morn and roar their engine and honk their horn to scare some deer that where staying in my horse pen,spooked 70hd of calves in a pen they run over top of steel feed bucks and slamed into a board fence, got one calve that is limping now. i tear after them and catch them and give them an ass reaming from hell they them take of and try to get on some land of dads so i take after them again and tell them to get the f#$k out of here while doing this i radio the lic plate number back to my wife and about the same time neighbor calls wife and asks if they can go get a wounded deer out in my field, i told her to tell them thats fine and she tells them whats up with me chasing these gentlemans and neighbor tells wife that these same people was on their land also so i told wife to tell the neighbor the lic num and call it in to the law, the law doesnt show up and catch the guys later chasing a group of deer with their pickup so i radio back to her and tell her to call the sheriff and to get me the game wardens cell phone number i called and got voice mail and left him message about whats going on while later a talk to a very good friend of mine and he told me he seen the game warden looking hard for these gentlemans...dont know if he caught up to them or not but will find out.
also found out later that these same a holes got on my brothers place.

i am posting this as to why finding a place to hunt for you guys is getting harder and harder find or is fee hunting or by invitation only. i am so fricken sick and tired of putting up with this snot that anybody i see doing this kinda of stuff gets to talk to the game warden used to be just a good ass chewing but not anymore they get to deal with the LAW!
I am sure that most here are ethical hunters but it only takes a couple deals like this to screw it up for you guys and i have delt with way more than a couple of these situations.
Doc

Varmintmist
Member

930 Posts
Posted - 11/22/2003 : 20:19:07
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quote:
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i am posting this as to why finding a place to hunt for you guys is getting harder and harder find or is fee hunting or by invitation only. i am so fricken sick and tired of putting up with this snot that anybody i see doing this kinda of stuff gets to talk to the game warden used to be just a good ass chewing but not anymore they get to deal with the LAW!
I am sure that most here are ethical hunters but it only takes a couple deals like this to screw it up for you guys and i have delt with way more than a couple of these situations.

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doc, I think there is more money in deer tags than tickets. In PA the game wardens won't even come out on a tresspass, not their job. IMHO, a tresspass should remove the hunting license from the yahoo who doesnt care where he is for about 3 years. If he doesnt care where he is, then he can be at his house. Tresspassing is stealing, period.

Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.


cowdoc
Senior Member

1119 Posts
Posted - 11/22/2003 : 20:28:06
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tresspassing here is 1000.00 fine plus loss of hunting privledge for one year the game warden here has to cover a very large area but atleast i know he was out looking for these guys. he is a rookie and looking to bust some A_S_S plus chasing big game with automobile is also another fine

i can understand why land owners are not letting people hunt on their land. it's too bad a few "hunters" wreck it for the rest of us. it doesn't bother me to be denied access to hunt on private land. what bothered me is this gal not allowing me to retrieve the deer that i legally shot.

As a land owner I have researched this problem. If a land owner gives permission for someone to enter his property he had better have liability insurance coverage for that situation. Insurance that covers hunters and such activities is pretty expensive and when you give permission to access your property for what ever reason you are responsible for any injuries and your insurance had better reflect that situation. The price of liability insurance varies considerable with or without hunting or trespassing being permitted. A lawsuit over injuries on private property have cost the farm for more people than you can immagine. I know of several. It's a shame that things are like they are in this day and age. That and disrespect for property have cost hunters a lot of places to hunt.

Criminal trespass is a big word that might scare you gonhuntin,but I happen to own land and know full well what criminal trespass means.

You might get a 500 dollar fine,most of the time its 100 dollars or less and thats if the judge sticks behind it in court. Either way its cheap enough to get a wounded animal.

Don't buy into the illegal trespassing bullshit,causing hunting areas to be closed. Outfitters and idiots willing to pay thousands of dollars to hunt private property,is what caused the common man to be locked out.

GonHuntin, how lucky are you that you are a owner of a piece of land, Or just the care taker of which you really are until you DIE, or some one else gets the land and takes care of it?? Kind of a big talker, hoping thay every-one that goes after a wounded animal has big money for court fee's and such. You are really the kind of guy that hunter's have judged some owners or keeper's of a little plot of you're own by the way you've talked and presented you're self on this thread. Its just too bad that people with an attitude problem like have of being Mr. Tuff Guy you are not made to put a high fence around that piece, so {{our}} animals can not get on you're piece of property. Than you would not have too worry so much. And if you wanted to go HUNTING you would have to find some where else. Maybe this thread should end.

I have a similar situation on my ranch in Missouri where there are hunters that set up next to the boundary fences near my food plots and try to shoot deer that move along the fence line. I had a young chap wound a spike deer this year and I told him to go ahead and track him up. It really pisses me off that these people drive 10 miles from their property and hunt next to my place because I put out mineral and food plots to grow better deer. They could do the same thing on their property if they would get off their butts and do it.

Hawkeye47

As a side note I find it odd what a NO HUNTING sign means to many hunters.

My Dad purchased a good size piece of property with a nice structure (log cabin) allready on the property. When he purchased the property the NO HUNTING, No Trespassing signs were allready up. We had many people asking if they could hunt the land and just as many sneaking on without permision.

After about a year in an effort to get along with the locals since none of us could stand guard year round Dad decided to take the signs down. BAM, just like that nearly everyone lost interest in hunting the property!

Seems like to many hunters the NO HUNTING signs read "There are very big (insert animal) on this property" and the lack of signs was a sign of its own stating that the place was hunted out or just no good.

I've seen the same thing happen here. We've got a local dipshit here that thinks she's an artist. Although,her paintings look like a 3 year old did them with finger paint. She came into inheritance a while back and bought up land.

So the first thing she did with the land was post it every 10 feet. Then she bought advertising in every local paper telling of no hunting. The funny part is,she still can't keep people off the property and the surrounding ranches that have very little posting,have few problems. Signs are a welcome mat to those willing to defy.

RMK Sounds like "Nelgi" (sp?). She bought up just about all of the land at the base of the Big Horns in Sheridan. I hunted on a ranch next door to her main place for 10 years, until she finally bought it and that just about ended by Wyoming hunting days. D. Nelson

That would be the one Neltje. So nelson do you still live in the area? I know several nelsons here.

[ 11-24-2003, 21:33: Message edited by: RMK ]

RMK I really did learn to hunt in Sheridan, Wyoming with an unsuspecting and very kind land owner there. He regularly accepted locals and non-residents who needed a place to hunt. His ranch was beautiful(on Piney Creek); and after the first few years of following his instructions, gutting and skinning everyone elses deer and antelope, he finally allowed this crazy woman from California to regularly hunt his place on her own... I vowed to work harder than the other hunters and he rewarded my effort. When he sold out to Neljte I was heart broken. PS--I wished I did live in Wyoming, that is where my heart lives!!!! D. Nelson