"Busted" Looks more like railroaded to me. Why was she fined she did not shoot the cow and in the video the cow could not be seen so how is it that it was hit by her bullet. Sounds like a lot of BS to me.

Interesting!

OK, you got me to read the story, but I've gotta ask a few questions:

1. No mention of where the bull moose was hit by her bullet. Did it impact a lot of bone in the bull? Was a richochet possible based on the facts of the wounds? If it was a good hit with a premium bullet, then a recovered bullet would have put the richochet idea to rest. Maybe a pass through, so no bullet recovery possible.

2. Why did the guide shoot the injured cow? If it clearly wasn't the bull she shot, then what was his point? While I appreciate being humane, I also appreciate the need to let nature take it's course. Why not just let the cow go?

3. Was the guide charged for shooting the cow? No mention of that, either. Clearly, he is the one who resulted in the death of the cow. The letter states "the death of the cow moose during the hunt was an innocent and random accident...". The death of the cow was clearly an intentional act by the guide firing his rifle - at least it seems clear to me.

4. Not sure of the legal system in AK, but no lawyer required in NY for violations. Only crimes require a lawyer unless you want to represent yourself.

5. Not real convinced about "The trooper to whom we reported the incident assured me that since we’d self-reported and surrendered the meat this would be the end of it." If this really happened and she was later charged, how could that be? Why does the letter state "Trooper Jones....with the original charging decision"? Does this mean that all along they had planned on charging her with this violation? Did she file a complaint about this alleged "change of heart"? I sure as hell would have.

6. Prior to trial there is something called "disocovery", where the prosecution must turn over all evidence they plan to use against the defendant - what evidence did the state have?

I can only say that there are a lot of FACTS missing from her account that would go a long way in convincing me one way or the other about this incident.

Typical Alaska game warden bull s###. They wanted to make a name for themselves. When they write more tickets, they get promoted quicker. The young lady got screwed without the usual kiss.

Well.....I'd say the Alaskan CO in this case is simply a prick.

Just goes to show that in some cases, you are GUILTY until proven innocent.

That's the system! Sure it's better than some but it ain't the best either. I can relate to the red tape and buck passing by the officials involved.
We have become complacent in allowing this sort of thing. The citizen's time and expense is not considered when meeting the convenience of the system. Personally, I am scheduled to appear in court (AGAIN) next week for the third time on a civil matter I filed for (at the insistance of another government agency). While the action potentially to result will change little in reality, I have dutifully reported for the past two weeks to no avail because the Sheriff has yet to serve the respondant!!! If I say the hell with it, I'm in the worng. I didn't even want this in the first place but tried to "do what's right."
It's no wonder citizens go out of their way to avoid getting involved in things or "do the right thing" when they end up being screwed by the very system that is supposed to protect them!!!!!

I'm no expert but the story does raise a few questions.

1. Was the injury to the cow the result of a bullet, or just a broken leg?

2. Could a bullet kill a bull moose and ricochet 350-400 yards (in a different direction) and retain enough energy to break the leg of a cow?

3. How could a hunter with 40+ years of experience be with in shooting distance of a moose and using "good optics" not be able to judge a moose? It is up to the guides to determine legality, but up to the hunter to decide whether or not to shoot.

If there was no way to determine how the leg of the cow was broken, there was absolutely no legal ground for which the state of Alaska could fine someone $100.

In my estimation, the way the incident was handled by authorities was highly unprofessional and quite disturbing. Note, however, that I did not say it was surprising...

OK... they discover a cow with a broken leg 350 yards from where the bull was taken and she gets the blame for the cow's leg being broken and ultimately taken out of it's misery?

Unfortunately there's the mistake: making the decision to take the cow out of it's misery (which was not her decision, but the guide's). That's probably an admission of guilt.

No where did I read that the cow's leg was broken due to a bullet from her rifle. She got snowed.

who is the lady? I've never heard of her?

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
who is the lady? I've never heard of her?

She's another personality with her own show on the Outdoor Channel. I only recently heard of her about 2 years ago.

I think her story must be leaving out some details. Obviously the violation here was finishing off the moose rather than it "possibly being hit by a ricochet". Seeing or the entire story from both sides would be interesting.

They had plenty of time to get their stories straight, make up the best story they could to stay out of trouble, and being a hunting show, there is a motive to be succesful at any cost.


Let's see, I have a lot of money at stake, an image, and probably an ego tied to success, so bending the rules or fabricating a story to protect all of that, is not out of the realms of possibility.

I'm very supportive of women hunting, but as a male I'd prefer the women appearing on TV hunting shows to be younger and hotter. Even though hunting clothing is kinda like a burqua.

Fishing shows seem more suited to female participation, given the bikini option or at the very least tight shorts.

Allow me to elaborate..............

What I wouldn't give to be that lobster!

I'd prefer to be the swimsuit myself.

Here is a different version of the story:

quote:

Location: Chisana
Case Number: 07-81485
Type: Take Cow Moose Closed Season
Text: On 10/15/07, Tok AWT Issued citations to Brenda Valentine, 57 yoa
of Puryear, Tennessee, and Amber Lee Dibble, 36 yoa of Tok, for taking a
cow moose during a closed season. Investigation revealed that on
9/17/07, Valentine wounded a cow moose while shooting at legal bull
moose while on a guided hunt. The moose was dispatched and turned over
to Troopers by the guide in accordance with state guiding laws.
Arraignments for both are set for November 7th in Tok District Court
Author: BWJ9
Received Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:16 AM and posted Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:31 AM

This sounds like the "official" version. I emailed her (Brenda) yesterday and she wrote a very nice message back. Although I do not watch many of the shows regularly I have seen hers on occasion and when she is on and I surf through I usually watch. She is a classy lady and a class act. I think that if the story had been any other way she would have told it as such.

I don't know about Alaska or Moose hunting but, here goes (cause I only like to say for sure stuff about things I know) "in Texas" it is against the law to "finish off" an injured deer unless it is taken by legal means and tagged as part of the bag by the hunter. If the hunter is in a "No Doe" county then he/she can't legally shoot or kill the injured deer. You have to call the Game Warden and they have to do it.

Perhaps there is some similar law on the books in Alaska and that is what is causing the stink. I still think she is a nice lady and I would presume that she would be hiring first class guides who knew their stuff and that they did what was right and in accordance with the law. She describes passing on a sheep (how many of us would have done the same in the same situation) so I think she was begin very careful especially since she knew the cameras were rolling.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Well.....I'd say the Alaskan CO in this case is simply a prick.

Just goes to show that in some cases, you are GUILTY until proven innocent.

Couldnt have said it better myself

From her story the cow moose had a broken leg above the ankle. I don't know much about moose but I have seen engough 3 legged deer to think that a moose could get along just fine on 3 legs. I don't see that there was any need to "finish her off".

Reelman,
I have to take exception to what you wrote. Deer inside a high fence in TX might make it but moose tend to live in wolf country. They have a hard enough time with 4 legs.

A bullet hole is a bullet hole and so are shrapnel holes which are sometimes worse then an actual bullet hole. Since they could not determine how the leg was broken, it means they could not find any "Holes."
She might have caught her hoof in a crack and suffered a compound fracture and is why there was blood.
The smart thing to do would have been to take the broken leg with them so it could be examined.
My take on the matter is that Brenda did not shoot the cow.
Our legal system is very close to the one in Mexico!

There is something just not quite right with her story. According to Brenda, she shot the bull moose. Then, the guides found a cow with a broken leg and the guides shot the cow. The guides should know all the laws, even if it was the humane thing to do. Brenda was charged and seemed happy to pay the $100 fine.

It just doesn't add up.

GA DEER HUNTER wrote:

quote:

Brenda was charged and seemed happy to pay the $100 fine.

I guess you read something other than what the rest of us did. She only decided to accept the $100 fine because she did not want to subject everyone involved with more expensive cross-country trips to tangle with Alaska's legal system.

If the guide shot the cow, then why wasn't the guide given the citation? I'm just saying I think there is more to the story than Brenda is telling us. She has a lot to loose. She also has big sponsors and big lawyers.

Remember, we only heard one side of the story.

quote:

and big lawyers.

Guarantee the lawyers make more than $100/hr. What's a round trip plane ticket cost?
And really, what does she have to lose? Most likely her sponsors won't do anything. Even Zumbo is still on tv.

I'm just saying that in my opinion we are not getting both sides of the story. Mostly, why did she get the ticket and not the guide? It just doesn't add up.

Seems like she forgot all about the cow moose in this version of the story. This is from her website.

At night, our five riding horses and three pack horses were hobbled and belled then allowed to graze around camp. A couple of the educated steeds had figured out which way was home and how to cover a lot of ground while wearing hobbles. It seemed every day began with a horse gathering before the hunt. Such was the case the day we found the big bull I shot. We got off to a slow start that day after Amber and Rick had to retrieve a couple of geldings that took off in the night. We didn't see as many moose as the day before even though we stopped often for everyone to look through binos in hopes of catching a glimpse of a white paddle in the brush. Yes, even as big as a moose is, they blend well in the thick brush where they live. Finally it was Rick who spotted the bull bedded on a ridge with a few cows. He looked enormous to me—and a long way off.

We tied up the horses and tried a stalk to cut the distance. Five people trying to stalk through pools of water, splats of snow, muskeg, and willows is a feat. Thankfully, moose don't have as good eyesight as many animals or we'd have not been able to get as close as we did. The cows were the first to pin us down and, since we were to the point of our last available cover, I had to make the decision of taking the shot then and there. I was shooting a Winchester Bolt Action in a .325 WSM with Winchester Ballistic SilverTip Ammo with a Leupold 3x9 scope.

It is hard to describe just how big a moose actually is but everyone pitched in to get the skinning and butchering job done by nightfall. Quarters of meat were spread out to cool on patches of snow as was the hide and horns. It was a weary crew that rode back to spike camp that night. We all crawled into our sleeping bags with exhausted bodies but a smile of contentment for such a spectacular day. Tomorrow we would ride back up on the mountain with pack horses and retrieve the meat and antlers.

Spirits in camp were magically lifted with the success of the hunt. We had now only to get everything safely down the steep and narrow mountain trail to spike camp and our Alaska moose hunt could be termed truly successful. The weight of the meat, hide and horns was equally divided between the three pack horse for the trip off the mountain. We went slow and careful since part of the trail was very steep and slick. Again I was thankful for my rodeo and endurance riding years which gave me the horse sense and experience to maneuver such types of terrain. I can't praise the two horses I used, Cookie and Lonesome, enough...both performed excellently at their appointment tasks.

By late the next day we had broken camp and ridden back to the main lodge. A hot shower and a soft bed never felt so good! Of course all the other hunters in camp were thrilled for our successful hunt. Most everyone there had taken either huge rams or, in one case, a gorgeous brown grizzly bear. To say that hunting was good that week in the Overly camp might be an understatement. We were picked up the next day by an air charter service and taken to Fairbanks for the long commercial flight back home. Sealed tightly in one of my bags were hefty backstraps to share with family and friends who'd never experienced the delicious taste of moose meat.

Looks like the locals don't feel quite the same - check this out: Alaska Outdoors Directory Forum

This whole thing still lacks even some of the most basic facts that any hunting story always has, like the distance of the shot, where the bullet impacted, etc. I will stand by my first post in saying that there is an overwhelming lack of facts. That being said, unless the trooper that made the arrest comes on to tell his side of the story then we'll always only have one side.

On an interesting note - I found a little background on her guide by Googling her "Amber Lee Dibble v. Company in the Superior Court of the State of Alaska. The complaint was served on the Company on November 2, 1999. The complaint alleges that plaintiff was handling a Ruger revolver and it discharged, resulting in injuries to her leg. General and special damages in excess of $100,000.00 are demanded." I couldn't find any outcome of the case.

Oh boy! - "it discharged". These things can happen when you pull the trigger....

I would have gone the whole 9 yards through the court system and had the CO that cited me PROVE that MY bullet broke the cow moose's ankle. I am big enough to own up to a mistake, but I've seen my share of wounded game in all of my years of hunting.

If an autopsy showed a bullet wound, I would gladly pay a fine for my mistake. Valentine plead guilty to a violation b/c it was the easy thing to do, but not necessarily the right thing to do.

Taking her story at face value, it is still easily conceivable that none of them could see the cow moose in the background, and it could very well be an accident. But Valentine seems insistent that "all was clear."

Maybe she and her guides did fabricate a story. If so, her $100 fine is hardly worth fighting over.

blufin, I don't live in Texas, I live in Wisconsin and believe you me we have plenty of wolves here and still see enough 3 legged deer running around in wolf country.

Either way if you believe her story it sounds like the moose was injured not from any fault of the hunters but most likely from a natural cause. Unless the moose could not moove there is no reason IMO to shoot it. And if it is put out of it's misery because it can't move then I would leave it there for nature to take care of.

OK, I’ve reviewed both websites and I perceive that if the District Attorney’s Office had a prosecutable case that they’d have carried forward with court proceedings fairly quickly so that they (the prosecutor ) could have an out of state celebrity mounted on the wall – however a DVD documenting the hunt is horrendously difficult evidence to overcome. My take is that the $100 fine/violation was a slap on the wrist for BVs guide shooting an injured cow moose – nothing more/nothing less. Perhaps we’ll get to see this hunt on Versus one of these days and then we’ll all get to argue whether a cow moose could have been injured when the bull moose was shot!

quote:

however a DVD documenting the hunt is horrendously difficult evidence to overcome

You are talking about someone who probably has their own production company. If it was the original footage, then I agree. But, if it was a DVD the Brenda made and then sent, thats easy to argue. Anybody that knows anything about computers could easily edit a cow moose right out of the DVD.

It's amazing how we eat our own.

Some of you need to reread the whole story she wrote with a open mind if you can.

As far as the AK outdoor forum there a bunch of inbread morons who go off half cocked all the time I won't even go there anymore.

US1-

You hit the nail on the head. It seems like at least one poster here is already rounding up a lynch mob...

I can only assume that Ms. Valentine must have dumped GA deer hunter at the prom many years ago. Get over it.

It's cheaper to pay a fine then to fight it. ADF&G knows this and they keep writing bogus tickets.

I want to know what happened to the guide.

I'm not saying she did or she didn't shoot the cow meese, but the story leaves out a really critical detail.....did the .325 WSM pass through the bull moose? Was the bull moose killed with one shot? Personally, based on my results with ballistic tips in .300 WSMs and .300 Win Mags, I'd bet pretty serious money that you can't shoot one through a moose unless it is a dead straight ribs to ribs shot.

I'm leaning towards her being railroaded but I wasn't there.

All of this over a friggin cow moose!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Well.....I'd say the Alaskan CO in this case is simply a prick.

Just goes to show that in some cases, you are GUILTY until proven innocent.

I know you may have meant that as sarcasm but in issues of game law, that is EXACTLY what it is - you have to prove your innocence not the other way around.

This is true in all states and we even make sure we teach that in all our Hunter Education classes here.

Sex crimes and Game law violations - you have to prove your innocence. All others - they have to prove your guilty.