Stubblejumper:

I go back a lot farther than you. I'm 75 and stopped reading "Gun Editors" in either Field & Stream or Outdoor Life over 35 years ago. They are shills for ammo and rifles from the manufacturers ( from whom they receive free ammo and rifles -what does that tell you?) Have you ever read an article from any gun editor that ever remotely criticized just the mere fact of bringing out a duplicative cartridge? - like the 264 Win. Mag. to the 270 Win? _ where experienced hunters know what the 270 can do? (Oh! Did I forget to mention the 270's terrific accuracy? I guess those guys didn't want to shoot at at 400 yards! - as if the 264 Win. Mag. shooters could even see their shot at 400 yards!) (OK! I'm being sarcastic but I really do admire the 270)

My suspicions center around the fact that most of us on the board grew up reading articles & books by the greats and in fact, we miss them.
O'conner could write & tell a story, Elmer couldn't write worth a damn and in fact had his articles edited. Of course we can't leave out Col. Whelan, P.O. Ackley and a host of others I can't even think of now. Back then, the writers went on prolonged trips to the back country, not some 5 day jaunt. We eagerly awaited the next issue of the magazine so we could suck up more adventure wishing we were in their shoes.
I vaguely remember reading a Boddington article a few years ago about a sheep hunt he went on somewhere in Asia. Hoping for once to read an O'Conner style article, I was sadly disapointed. It was only a shell of what I thought could have been a good article. That writing style absolutely turned me off. I'm not gonna slam Boddington since I'm not familiar with the "ins & outs" of publishing but I do know I'm not interested in the rags being published today.
I would also agree with comments made about the wrtiers/magazines being shills for the manufacturers. It used to be that a spade was called a spade. Now, every firearm or piece of equipment written about is the latest & greatest. I'm not gonna subscribe to any of those rags until and if they clean up their acts.
My opinions & not worth a whole lot. Bear in Fairbanks

gerry375,

The .270, a redundant and mediocre cartridge, would not even have survived but for the constant preaching about it from a GUNWRITER, Jack O'Connor, who was PAID by Winchester to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by interboat:
gerry375,

The .270, a redundant and mediocre cartridge.....

Cosidering it hit the market in 1925, I would say a variety of competing, and ballistically similar rounds created much later were the redundant entries.

quote:

would not even have survived but for the constant preaching about it from a GUNWRITER, Jack O'Connor...

I'm sure JOC had much to do with it becoming popular, however, JOC also said the greatest reason for its survival and popularity was due to it being offered in a very good rifle.

quote:

..who was PAID by Winchester to do it.

I would require proof of that statement.

GV

quote:

Originally posted by interboat:
gerry375,

The .270, a redundant and mediocre cartridge, would not even have survived but for the constant preaching about it from a GUNWRITER, Jack O'Connor, who was PAID by Winchester to do it.

Pure baloney. I wonder who paid O'Connor to write about the .30-06, 7x57 mauser, .257 Roberts, and .375 H&H. Why didn't Winchester pay O'Connor to write something nice about the .284 Win or .264 Win Mag?

-Lou

quote:

Originally posted by TrademarkTexan:

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:

quote:

Any writer who is guilty of blatant promotion and weasel dealing should be sent to archery camp for the William Tell lessons for beginners. I am soooo sick of their efforts to sell mercandise as opposed to inform the great unwashed.

That covers Boddington and most of the other gun writers.They are constantly touting every new offering as the greatest product out there in an effort to kiss the manufacturers butts.

I personally like Boddington's writing. I also don't think we lost much when Jack O'Connor quit writing, based on his writing that is available now.

I agree. Gen. Boddington seems to be a no nonsense guy and I enjoy his work. O'Connor was not to my taste. I liked Teddy Roosevelt's book, I thought "Pondoro" Taylor and Capstick are frauds. Selous' book was outstanding, in my view.

I think in a few years most printed magazines and news papers will only be down loaded . But remember the kid who has no shooting friend or family ,yet wants to hunt and shoot. The headlines and photos must catch their attention and hopefully make them one of us. Skip the articles that are nonsense, But We cannot do without anyone promoting hunting and shooting, even if every article he writes is a sales pitch. Just my thoughts .

Bear in Fairbanks:

If I disagree with you at all, it's about how we read the old time gun writers. I came from a widely experienced gun family. I KNEW (from my father) that the 270 (O"Connor not withstanding) was not a rifle to use on grizzly - much less brown bears - as he urged against the 30-06)) I knew from my father what such and such a caliber would do. What still bothers me to this day (and I'm 75) is that these magazine writers are just like Hollywood gossip writers. They print what is handed out to them. We have generations of "shooters" who never have shot at (much less killed) any animal with the cartridge the writers tell us are great. Many of these posters are either readers of ballistics tables (very misleading in themselves) or simply rifle range bench shooters. "RUMs" and "MAG"are magic words to them. Of course,some one forgot to tell a wild animal to read the same book!

you just reminded me why I haven't taken any outdoor magazines in a very long time.....

gerry375:
I note from your tag line that you're from N.Y.S. I too am originally from N.Y. - the Cobleskill area. As a kid, I read everything I could get on O'Conner, perhaps too much. That's why I'm transplanted.
Happy 75 yrs. Hope I'm still spry enough to hit the sheep mountains if & when I reach your age. I turn a "young" 59 in a few days.
Later, Bear in Fairbanks

I dislike Weishun and Sundra because they seem to be such whores. I understand that advertisers pay the freight but I appreciate the subleties of others more.

Clair Rees just puts me to sleep. Not that I think I know more, etc.,...he is just boring.

Unlike others on this and other sites I don't claim know more than people who get paid to write their opinions and experiences. I pay no more attention to non-professional opinions and articles than I do those in the rags.

I'm sick of reading about short magnums, and I wish Craig would stop using the word "wonderful" so much, and plugging products in his story's, but I do like him. I wish someone would give a negative report about a product once in a while too....

quote:

I wish someone would give a negative report about a product once in a while too....

Here's one:

http://www.african-hunter.com/lessons_learned.htm

I think somebody hit the nail on the head not with a hammer, but with a Nimitz class aircraft carrier when thay said (and truthfully so) EVERY writer has to occasionaly scrape the bottom of the lttarary barrel to put out his/hers monthly article.

I think todays gun writers are better at finding ways to write about the same subjects over and over and yet over again than thay are actually imforming anyone of anthing ACTUALLY informative.

Think about it for a moment, gun writers have a desidedly FINITE list of subjects in which to make a living writing about.

I use to hold Col. Boddington in quite high regard and own several of his books. High regard that is untill I met and observed him at the SCI convention in LV four years ago. I did not at all like what I saw and heard. I hope he was simply "playing to the audience at hand".

And if I read just ONE more GD article about some gun writer going on his umpteenth fully guided mega$$$ out of my price range hunt that teaches the average hunter absolutely zilch, nada, bigfatnothing and only serves to waist ink, paper, and serves no one but the writer and outfitter and the only thing said writer has to say is "see you too can enjoy this spectacular hunt just like me, all you gotta do is plunk down $5000-$25000 and then its just grabbing and grinning, Im going to vomit up my shoes. Archery rags are the worst offenders of this violation IMHO.

Also count me as a loyal subscriber to Gun Tests magizine.

*** GHOSTS OF THE PAST ***

I agree with the gent ( above ) , who said we shouldn't dump on any of the major editors and writers , -- because , at least they are effective Pro-gunners .

So I'll try to keep this " positive " .

I liked Jack O'connor's writing style , mainly , -- casual and kind of Western-slang .

Elmer , was my all time , -- bar -none , favorite . -- Scarcely ever read anything by him I didn't agree with ; ( well , at least partially ) .

Always liked Ayoob , -- Agree with M16 on Milek , Aagard , and especially , -- Seyfried , who was influenced much by Keith .

Another writer that , I bet , few remember , was George Bredsten ; -- ( wrote a regular column in the American Handgunner , -- many years ago , -- on Handgun Hunting .

I knew George personally , and he had a standing offer to stay at Elmer's place , anytime he was in the area . -- He later was Lead Firearms Instructor at U.S. Custom's GA. training facility .

He has forgotten more about guns , than I'll ever know . --- J.D. Jones finally took over his column in the Am. Handgunner .

In very general terms , -- I don't like these guys that never say anything negative , -- especially about the Major Mfg. types ; -- and that's a whole lot of writers . --- the ones that say only wattered down opinion when it IS negative , arn't much better .

I do like Boddington , though , -- he's well traveled , a stone Hunter , served our Country admirably ; -- and won my vote when I read him admit he really blew a shot , and used less than perfect judgement . -- It happens to all of us , if you hunt enough , -- but damn , it's refreshing to hear one of these major guys , -- admit it ! --- Not many will .

--------------- MMCOUGAR .

quote:

Always liked Ayoob

Yup, he is good.

I can handle most writers , save for one , Jim Shockey . One article in particular , it was a Sheep hunt in Old Mexico . Story went something like this , I had to hike alot , my feet are sore , are we there yet . By the time I finished reading , I was on suicide watch . I really think if your given or earned a chance to hunt Desert Sheep , the oppertunity alone should keep you from bitching . I'm not saying he did'nt inccur hardships , but for someone like myself who dreams of hunting Sheep it was a real downer . I could have written a more exciting story about trapping mice in my own house . Seems the adventure of hunts in the writing pages are dying .

CLL, I'm in total agreement about Jim Shockey. I'd forgotten about him since I never get past his name at the top of the page. He impresses me as a spoiled brat.

My complain is that none of the writers will say anything negative about a new item, be it a caliber, rifle, scope, or ammunition. In fact many stories related to "hunt-based tests" are basically silly. I recall a story by Bob Milek quite a few years ago that is typical of this "testing". The 416 Remington Magnum had just been released and he "tested" the Model 700 in which it was released along with two additional hunters on Alaskan moose. He used, of course, Remington factory ammunition with 400 grain Swift A-Frame bullets. I recall that he shot a relatively large moose at about 200 yards, but had to shot it three times. He nonetheless raved about the "killing power" of this round. Now let's examine this article. Does anyone believe that a 416 Remington with premium bullets would not be adequate for moose, even large Alaskan moose? He never commented that it was interesting that he had to shoot this moose three times. Does the fact that he needed three rounds suggest that something larger was needed? If this is the case, what would be "more adequate" that the 416? I remember this article so well as it represents the ridiculous nature of some of these articles. I would like to read an article, much like the discussions presented on this forum, that a particular rifle or round is not so good and could have been materally improved prior to release through this, that, or something. Of course, I would suggest, that we all realize that this writer would never be published again, if they really critized one of their "customers". A statement of the obvious is that a deep conflict of interest underlies all of the articles within most hunting magazines that diminishes basicially everything that is written.

gun writers are just folks with a job to do, like you or i. they write negative stuff, they don't get paid. it's that simple. besides, it's entertainment.

Man - you folks have been spoiled over in the US. Come to the UK to see what a low standard of gun journalism really means...... You will return home vowing never again to complain!!

Rgds Ian

Bear in Fairbanks:

I envy you that you had the guts to pick up and go to Alaska! I love my home state (even as bad as it has become). I spent much of my life in Putnam County (as you can see from my age -when Putnam county was real country) It was really interesting that you mentioned sheep hunting. When I could have done it I just didn't have the time. It always has intrigued me about the idea of climbing in mountain country and panting and out of breath - and then having to steady down and get ahold of my breathing and shoot at a not too large target that might be 300 yards away. It's a real challenge I can imagine. ( My other regret that I never hunted was American western antelope - another long shot - but I suspect not so difficult as sheep)

I subscribe to Rifle/Handloader/Successful Hunter. I also subscribe to Fair Chase and NA Whitetail.

My wife bought (and I will not be renewing) Buckmasters

I get (and never paid for, someone bought for me? promos? I dunno!) Peterson's Hunting and Sports Afield.

I really like John Barsness as a writer . . . the very first thing I read by him was a book a non-hunting friend gave me about upland bird hunting - his writing actually made me interested in a sport that I was not previously interested in (I shoot quail and dove here in TX, but grouse? partridge? chukar?). I've never been affended by the "rifle looney" moniker, as I think it applies to me, by and large - I buy rifles that I don't need just to have new ones, not shotguns or pistols.

I don't really like Boddington's writing much, and there was a recent article in Peterson's by him promoting Hornady's new LeveRevolution ammo that I thought was very skewed (compared "original 405 gr 45/70 loads" at ~1200 fps to modern 300 gr loads at ~1800 fps when trying to make the case for the new ammo), but I'm sure that most make such bogus claims when promoting new stuff.

In fact, the writers I don't really like seem to be the ones who's by-lines appear in most gun magazines - they seem to write the same stuff over and over and by volume whereas the ones that mostly write for a specific publication like Rifle (et al) seem to produce better stuff.

Troy

LBGuy -- I think your dead wrong --- writers have an obligation to report whats right about a product and whats wrong! There are times it should be entertainment, a story about grandpa's old huntin' days can be entertaining, but reporting on hunting conditions or an outfitter should be just that, reporting.....

The writer that I really like is Mic McPherson, I have spoken to him on the phone many times when I worked for the Nosler customer service line. I found Mic to be a true gentlemen, a scientist and very straight forward in reporting his findings. Mic writes much more along the technical side of shooting and not so much on the entertainment side.

On the other hand I personally could do without Mr Boddington and his "it requires a 577 Nitro or larger to kill a whitetail." The most memorable hunts I have ever had involved taking my deer with a 1922 Remington model 14 in 30 Remington, a 7mmTCU in a contender and a Ruger 357 Maximum revolver. No super, ultra, mega, magnums required to take those deer, I must have just gotten lucky. Actually I just get much more of a thrill if I can get within 100 yards or less. Anything longer is way too impersonal and just does not provide the same thrill.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Joe

My favorites are Ackley and De Haas.

They speak my engineering language.

When I thumb through the popular type gunwriters there is nothing there for me..

It reminds me of being a little boy with my mother shopping and she goes into the women's clothing section. I got so bored, I had to lie down on the floor.

David Fortier, Craig Boddington, and Massad Ayoob can stay. Maybe John Barsness.

Everyone else GTFO, starting with Ross Seyfried.

quote:

I got so bored, I had to lie down on the floor in the women's clothing section.

I tried that once in the ladies section and got escorted out.

I write for VARMINT HUNTER and enjoy doing so, because I can report exactly what I think. But I certainly don't make a living doing it - I have other means for doing that. I have reported less than steller things on just about every scope I have ever used, for example.

I would much rather read Boddington than some staff writer on his first moose hunt (footed by a supplier) who has never even seen a moose. Boddington has at least killed a lot of stuff.

Layne Simpson is a good guy IMO. From what I understand, he is a successful businessman outside of the hunting industry and consequently does what he does because he enjoys it.

My other pet peeve is writers who never kill anything. You can figure out who those guys are yourself. One in particular is a prolific writer but I can't ever recall seeing him hold a dead critter.

I like Jim Carmichel too, though he does bash us internet users. Unlike many writers who regurgiate the same old false myths, he seems to have good engineering sense.

I don't mind Boddington or jamison.
I really like Barsness and Shoemaker.
I like Prothero if he would only smile after smacking some fantastic mammal.
I dislike Venterino and Rees.
I CAN'T STAND DAVE SCOVILL.

David Fortier in particular. Don't know exactly why, but he strikes me as a wuss and wannabe.

The more Boddington I read, the more I realize I have read it before in another of his books/articles. But I still look for his byline and read his stuff. I can only imagine how hard it is to try to write about the same ol stuff in a new, exciting manner. Face it, shooting a whitetail over a beanfield can only be described in so many ways by mere mortals! I would doubt many of today's writers could make a living in any other genre with their writing skills.

I think the thing missing in today's writing is character development and the events/location surrounding the hunt. Ruark spent months with Selby. Boddington spends a few days with his guides or PH. Not a lot of time to develop much of a character picture. With the 'net and cable TV, we are somewhat jaded into what exotic parts of the world look and feel like. O'Conner took city folks to mountain tops they had never seen or imagined and hunted near mythical creatures. Weeks on horseback and in camp, eating grouse and beans made for good anecdotes. Cramped seating on an Airbus on your 10 day ranch hunt with gourmet food and wine in SA is a poor substitute.

I am a little out of touch, as I seldom read gun mags anymore. All those greatest thing since sliced bread and canned beer items are what pays the freight, however.
I can think of a few I really liked, such as Ross Seyfreid. I haven't seen anything from Pat Mcmanus lately.(sort of off topic, but his stories sometimes involved guns)I don't know if he's even still with us. I miss Finn Aagard as well.

I agree with some who posted above that a big difference is that the writing used to be about an adventure, and you could use your imagination and feel like you are there. Not any more. I used to subscribe to Big Game Adventures when readers and lesser knowns wrote the articles. I didn't even mind Shockey. When it went more "commercial" and started hiring Boddington, Sundra and the like, I quit renewing.

The never saying anything negative is also an issue with me. When Dick Metcalf, who has the personality of a pit viper (I met him several times), writes about how sterling the accuracy of the Kimber 84 is in 308 when the best it would do is average 2" for him including match ammo, that was it for me. If you can't say anything negative about a 308 that averages 2" at 100 yards, you sold out big time.

I don't subscribe to any hunting or shooting rags. The only thing worse is OLN and the Outdoor Channel. Ads are ok if they are ads. I don't want to read an article describing a great hunt with every opportunity taken to plug in a positive for equipment. That is just me.

The solution? Who knows? Maybe it is an open forum wherein members openly discuss the negatives and positives publicly. A place where opinions are as varied as usernames yet, everyone walks away a winner and where everyone gains at least a more broadened view.

If I'm in the mood to read a good hunting story, I find one on AR. We all know that some member somewhere has probably lied about hunting elk or whatever critter he / she wrote about. Maybe he never even owned a rifle of the style and caliber he described killing the beast with, but it didn't hurt a thing if I read it.

When I want to know about a new piece of equipment, I ask AR. I guess some people relate positives or negatives based on what they read in a magazine or heard from a friend. However, if your topic receives many replies, the good information is easily sorted from the bad, nonfounded opinions.

We are living it guys! My dad has worked for a publishing company. The company has numerous plants world wide. At the plant my dad works in they print eight different archery / hunting / shooting mags. I too worked there for a few years. I can recall an assembly line consisting of around 20 crew members running 24 / 7 for five-seven days to print enough copies of Bowhunter Magazine to supply the world. It now runs for maybe 2 shifts.

That article about the guide training in Africa was pure unadulterated truth. Someone who puts their life on the line can't afford to sugar-coat their experiences or test results. A guide in Alaska after Kodiaks is in the same boat.

Anyone read Gun Tests? They don't tell stories, they report test results, and give each item tested a "buy, don't-buy" rating.

I think Carmichael has grown over the years. His writing has gotten better, but I still believe he is tied too deeply into the "support your advertisers" crowd.

I read mostly speciality hunting mags now. Gave up the others long ago, because they are too much like cheerleaders for a marketing dept.

I like Richard P. Smith who writes mostly about bear hunting. Smith is committed to hunting and has gone out of his way to support hunters around the country.

My all time favorite was Ted Trueblood. He never wrote about equipment, but always spoke with authority about hunting and hunting camps. I learned much from his writing.

quote:

"Always obey the game laws. Always take less than the limit. Do some work each year toward improving habitat for game, controlling predators, preventing erosion, or a similar worthwhile activity. Belong to a sportsmen’s organization and encourage others to do so. Try to instill the precepts of sportsmanship into at least one hunter a year."
Ted Trueblood, October 1948

quote:

Anyone read Gun Tests? They don't tell stories, they report test results, and give each item tested a "buy, don't-buy" rating.

Give me a break! Why would you trust somebody who offers a sample copy and if you don't like it all you have to do is cancel. Well I canceled and they kept coming. Then the bills start coming. I told the lying bastards to f###off. They base their opinion on ONE sample. This forum can't be beat for honest reviews.

David Petzal is the biggest a$$ of them all.
If I am at the doctors office with nothing else to read I will see what is in F&S. I don't waste money on the magazine. I used to like Gundog but since peterson pub bought it, it has turned to crap. Which collar is better? Boddington wrote a shotgun artical for Gundog. I emailed them and complained. The best bird hunting writer was Charlie Watterman.
I like Jack O'Connor's stuff. As a kid he took me along on some great hunts. I still enjoy his writing. The thing I liked best about him was he was funny.
Ron

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:

quote:

Originally posted by Clem:
Chuck Schumer, Dian Feinstein, Hilary Clinton, Sara Brady and Ted Kennedy are the gun writers I could do without. Never liked anything they have written about guns.

I miss Jack O'Connor.

I miss Jack O'Connor too--have you read his book about his childhood? Title is "Horse and Buggy West" and it is a good read.