Here is the link to the story:

http://www.idahopress.com/articles/2006/06/08/news/news3.txt


This DID NOT happen to me, it happened to a friend of a friend. My buddy lives in Grangeville, ID and e-mailed me a copy of it before it hit the papers, I just had time to post it today.

GRANGEVILLE Hello. My name is Scott Richards. I have lived in Grangeville for the last 17 years. I have enjoyed training my hunting dogs for the past 34 years.

To do this it takes a great deal of love for your dogs and for the great outdoors. I have always prided myself in the manner of which I train my dogs and take care of them. When I choose a new pup, he or she spends the first 6 months in my house. He or she is loved and a bond is there forever.

I do not believe there are bad dogs, just inexperienced owners. I have spent the last four years trying to introduce this sport to as many young people as I can. My photo albums are full of pictures with children sitting under a tree with the dogs, telling them they did a good job.

That has all changed now.

The reason I am writing this story is not to debate whether the Canadian gray wolf should be or should not be here. I am not going to debate anyone about how many wolves are really in the state of Idaho. I will say our elk, moose and deer populations are in serious trouble now.

The real reason I am telling this story is that I have a conscience, and what happened to my dogs and me Wednesday, May 24, at 9:45 a.m. might open a few eyes.

Its been a few days now, and the shock has turned from fear to disbelief to anger, and now the major concern for the safety of anyone who lives in or visits our state. My life that I have loved raising and training these special working dogs is now over.

Crying wolf

This Wednesday morning started like most days when I train dogs. I was a few miles from my house and turned up the hill on the Service Flats Road. I let my dogs out of the box, jumped into my truck and followed them up the road for a mile, letting them clean out. I had eight dogs with me, and seven of them were very experienced 2, 3 and 4-year-olds. I had one five-month-old pup.

I loaded four dogs on top of the box and four inside the box. I did not have to drive far, and the dogs sounded off, letting me know a bear had crossed the road.

My friend, Bryon, had driven up from Lewiston to train some of his young dogs.

I turned out a 4-year-old named Jasper. He left the road and let me know the track was fresh. I told Bryon to turn his dogs loose as did I. They quickly dropped into a canyon, where bears hang in the brushy bottoms in daylight hours.

When all the dogs reached the bottom, five went up the other side of the canyon headed toward Fish Creek campground. The other group of dogs came right back up the hill to us. They put the bears in a tree 20 minutes later.

The other group of dogs treed about the same time about 1 1/2 miles away. Bryon and I went to the nearest dogs first. When we were under the tree, we found they had a mature sow and a 2-year-old cub. We took a few pictures and were back in the trucks ready to go to the other dogs.

We drove back up to where we heard the group of five dogs top over and shortly thereafter tree the bear. We checked where the dogs still had the bear treed. We drove as close as we could and stopped and listened.

They were about 400 yards away, treeing solid. I made the decision to move the truck 200 yards to the low side of the saddle; this would be an easy way back with the dogs. When Bryon and I crested the hill, instead of hearing a roar of barking dogs treeing, we heard nothing. We were looking at each other like, Where did they go? We just heard them there five minutes ago.

One dog barked, and another barked just 50 yards away. I said to Bryon that neither of the dogs we heard sounded like any of our dogs. He agreed. Then I heard a dog bark that I knew was mine, but at the end of his bark there was a sharp yelp. Bryon and I headed down the hill in a hurry about 75 yards apart.

About 300 yards down the hill I was stopped dead in my tracks by a big dark-colored wolf. Blackey, my dog, was getting attacked; I was 20 yards away now and closing fast, screaming and yelling as I ran. I stopped at about 12 feet from the wolf, and even though I was screaming and waving my arms, the wolf did not break from the attack. Every time Blackey tried to run, the wolf would sink his teeth into Blackeys hindquarters.

All the while I was screaming louder than I ever screamed in my life. Without any thought I picked up a 4-foot stick, stepped toward the wolf, swung and hit a tree. When the branch went crack and the tree went thud, the wolf instantly lunged at me.

I remember thinking I was going to die.

I ran from tree to tree straight up hill toward my truck. When that wolf lunged at me, I believed I would have been seriously hurt or dead if not for Blackey. I did not see what took place, but what I heard was my dog giving his life to save me.

As I reached the truck, Bryon was digging around in his truck for a gun. As I ran up he started yelling, We got wolves. I was trying to listen to him as I was searching for a gun as I took my pistol in my hand and turned toward Bryon.

When I looked into his eyes I realized I was not the only one threatened by wolves. We headed back down to see if we could save Blackey, Lady or Halley, but there was no sound. I wanted to hear a bell dingle or a bark, but nothing. As Bryon and I hurried back to the truck to get my tracking box, I finally understood that Bryon was able to fight off three wolves and save two dogs. Snyper and Bullet were safe in the dog box with no life-threatening injuries.

With the tracking box in hand, I tuned in on Ladys tracking collar and said to Bryon, Not Lady, not Lady, but I knew she was dead. Then I tuned to Blackey and told Bryon that Blackey was dead, and then I tuned in Halleys collar. One beep every four seconds that means all three dogs had not moved for at least five minutes. All dead.

I was just standing there in shock.

We decided to look for Halley first. We were getting real close; the receiver was pegging the needle. I knew that with a few more steps I would be looking at one of my babies.

My heart skipped a beat when Halleys tree switch went off. I didnt know if she was alive or if a wolf was dragging her off. We ran the direction the needle was pointing, and in a few yards there she was.

She was trying to get up; her stomach was ripped open and her guts were hanging out a foot. She had more than 60 bite marks and deep gashes all over her body. Her stomach was torn in multiple spots.

Bryon went into action. Of came his shirt, and we wrapped it tightly around her stomach. I carried her back to Bryons truck and put her in the front seat; Brian headed for the vets. I remember thinking I wouldnt see Halley alive again.

I started tracking Blackey next; it did not take long to find him. He wasnt far from where the wolf came after me. He was dead and lying in a pool of his own blood. He was bit and torn so full of holes that I just fell to the ground bawling and crying. I could not quit thinking, He gave his life to save me.

I was sitting there when it hit me: Lady! Id better get to Lady. When I tuned her in, I knew she was within a 100 yards. I lined up with her collar, and the next thing I knew there she was in a heap, her eyes wide open, looking straight into my eyes. For one second I thought she might be alive. When I knelt down beside her, I knew she was dead.

Its very difficult to describe the type of death these dogs were handed. It was easy to see that the wolves want to cripple their prey, torture it and then kill it. I have never seen a worse way for any animal or person to die.

I made it back to town and took care of my dogs who made it through this nightmare that happened in the light of day. Then I headed to see if Halley needed to be buried.

When I walked into the veterinarians office, I was greeted with, Did you find the rest of your dogs? I tried to say they were all dead, but I could not get the words out; all I could do was cry.

After a few minutes standing alone, I heard a voice behind me say, Halley is still alive; do you want to see her? I instantly headed for the back room, and when I turned the corner I saw this little black ball covered in stitches swollen twice her normal size.

I stopped and said out loud, Oh my God, Halley, what have they done to you? When she heard me say her name, she lifted her head, whined and waged her tail. I kneeled down, held her and comforted her the whole time wondering if she was the lucky one, or were Blackey and Lady the lucky ones? When I looked into her eyes it was easy to see the only reason she was still alive: the wolf had choked her out.

Her eyes were full of blood; they had left her for dead. The doctor said it was a miracle she was alive at all. Her lungs were badly damaged, but what most concerned us all was infection from all the tears and bites.

I knew this little dog had more heart and desire than a 1,200-pound grizzly bear, and yet was as gentle with my granddaughters as my chocolate lab. If it were just a fight with infection, she would win.

On the way home I called the Idaho Fish and Game to report what had happened. They were very understanding, and I could tell they were sincere when they said they were sorry for my loss. They also made it clear there was nothing they could do for me and that their hands were tied. They said they would write the report and call a federal agent.

Justin, the government trapper, contacted me by phone and arranged to meet me at first light. We were at the site of the attack early the next morning. We went to the site where I had laid Lady in the shade.

She was gone without a trace.

I took Justin to where Blackey was laying, and he had also disappeared. We searched around and found nothing. About that time a crow down below me called three times, so we walked toward the sound.

It did not take long before we were standing over the remains of the dog that saved me from harm. All that was left of him was his head and backbone. Had we been an hour later, there would have been nothing left of him.

We had spooked the wolves off while they were finishing their prey. In five hours all we found of Lady was a pile of fresh wolf scat full of white, brown and black dog hair. Lady was a tri-colored walker that color.

Justin and I buried what was left of Blackey. We piled heavy stones on his grave, and I walked away thinking that it could have been me. I could have been just a pile of wolf scat lying on the ground and leaving people to wonder where I had disappeared to.

I couldnt help but think of the 22-year-old man who was killed and eaten by wolves in Canada this winter. Theres been a slaughter on hound dogs and pets in Idaho, and it is getting worse daily. I have been assured that if these wolves kill any cows, sheep, goats, pigs or horses, they will become a problem and will be dealt with, and the owners will be compensated.

Thats a relief.

Dogs have no value to anyone in the government, it seems.

So what I love to do is over; I will not send another dog to slaughter or feed another starving wolf pack. My concerns now are that the wolves are running out of easy prey and are now eating dogs.

In wet, muddy areas where elk and moose have always been plentiful, I no longer can find even a track.

Perhaps aliens took them off to a safer planet. I hope you did not find that funny.

This is the first documented case in Idaho where wolves have eaten a dog after killing it. The real reason I had to write this story is public safety.

The general public is unaware of the danger that awaits them. Since I retired, I have spent no less than four days a week in the mountains. What has amazed me are how many of these wolves are right around peoples homes. When they are out of easy prey, be ready.

For as long as I can remember, when you were in the mountains for any reason, a dog by your side was a great defense to warn you of predators. I used to believe in this. But now a dog is nothing more than bait to lure wolves.

Recently, while cougar hunting, an associate of mine, who is a licensed guide like myself, had a wolf encounter. He was cougar hunting with a dog on a leash when three wolves charged up on him. With waving arms and a screaming voice, he was able to persuade them to leave, but what if they had been a little hungrier? Your natural instinct will be to defend your companion. I am not saying you should leave your friend at home, but be prepared.

Put a bell or a beeper on him or her so you know where they are at all times.

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to pack a firearm. I personally believe pepper spray will not work in a pack attack. Keep your dogs quiet when you are walking no barking. If they are tied up in camp, no barking. And dont let your children play with your pets and have them barking while theyre playing.

My personal belief is that the war has been lost. Its too late to save our big-game herds in my lifetime.

What I have loved to do for most of my life is over, so enjoy it while you still can. Be prepared. I pray you never encounter a pack of Canadian gray wolves.

What do you think?

Whats your reactions to the reintroduction efforts of wolves into Idaho and the western states?

Send your letters to:

Idaho Press-Tribune

P.O. Box 9399

Nampa, ID 83652

quote:

Originally posted by sierrabravo45:
Whats your reactions to the reintroduction efforts of wolves into Idaho and the western states?

I think the wolves and those that promoted their re-introduction should be hunted to extinction. I know thats not a politically correct point of view but I really don't care. If they killed just for food that would be one thing but wolves are the serial killers of the animal world. A pox on them and those that love them.

Son of a bitch.

That is a nasty experience to be sure. I guess the bright side is that Scott and Byron were not killed by the wolves as well.

It sounds like it won't be long until the Idaho Department of Fish and Game will be tracking a pack of wolves to kill them because they have attacked and/or killed a human being.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim White:

quote:

Originally posted by sierrabravo45:
Whats your reactions to the reintroduction efforts of wolves into Idaho and the western states?

I think the wolves and those that promoted their re-introduction should be hunted to extinction. I know thats not a politically correct point of view but I really don't care. If they killed just for food that would be one thing but wolves are the serial killers of the animal world. A pox on them and those that love them.

I'm with you all the way. Since they introduce the Mexican Grey Wolf down here in Arizona game numbers have been declining. Real smart as game numbers were already dropping because of our prolonged drought.
About three years ago, which just happened to be the last time I drew an elk tag, I was up in the White Mountains of Arizona and it was starting to get dark. My hunting partner was in a large clearing by the road trying to get a connection home with his cell phone, so I walked on up the road to take advantage of what remaining light there was. I got maybe 150-200 yards up the road when I noticed movement about 20-30 feet into the brush alongside the road. When I stopped, whatever it was stopped. When I walked, they walked. Finally, I stopped one time and could make out the forms through the brush where it was thinner. With my binocular, I determened that is was wolves. My guess was there were about 8 of them. I went a bit further up the road, buat as it was getting way too dark to shoot anyway, I started back to where my buddy and the rest of our group were. The wolves followed me back down to where the rest of the group was. When they saw out numbers, they faded off into the brush and were not seen again. Were they stalking me or just being curious? I don't know, but I'm inclined to think that is just what they were doing. I'll just say the .35 Whelen in my hands felt mighty comforting.
I've had other incidents with wolves in that area, but the following has given me a hatred for them that knows no bounds.
Same elk hunt. My buddy had driven into town to get gas, and while he was gone, as it was about noon, the wife and I were enjoying a bit of quiet time. A rancher came by the came and asked if we'd seen a stray cow. When he described the animal, we recognized it as one we'd seen eralier that morning and told him where. Guess he didn't find it, because that night, we were horrified to hear the sounds of an animal in some kind of very serious trouble, fear and pain close to out camp. The next morning, the wife and I took a walk up the hill from camp where the sounds came from. We found what was left of the missing cow. We located the rancher and notified him of his loss and showed him what was left of his animal. If cussing could start forest fires, he'd have burned that whole area to the ground.
We eradicated the wolf for a reason. Seens like those tree hugging dipshits will end up screwing all of us from being able to hunt. It's a good and sneaky plan. Replace the wolf. The wolf eats up all the game. radical rerduction in game population, stop hunters from hunting. No hunting? Then why do you need that gun? Unintended consequences? Not fucking hardly.
Paul B.

This can't be true.. the left libs all tell us that wolves act exactly in the wild like they do in Disney Cartoons...

They would never harm a fly...

Sad you can't teach these people anything, isn't it.

actually I have a lot more feeling for the loss and death of the dogs than I would most of the people who think we need to leave wolves running in the wilds... Take Grizzly Man for instance... he is more tolerable as bear crap than he was as a PETA Libby...

sorry but that is how I feel about them, once you see pictures of the real world such as this...

of course I can see animal rights activists claiming the guy cut his own dogs head off to try and deter the "plight of the wolves" in North America....

As nasty as this story is it is nothing new here in Wisconsin. We have been having bear and yote hounds killed for many years.

One diffearants is that in Wis the DNR pays you for you hounds that are killed by wolves. Not that it makes up for the loss of a good dog.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim White:


I think the wolves and those that promoted their re-introduction should be hunted to extinction.

Amen brother.

When you consider the lack of enforcement and the shear number of people in the wilds every day. The chances of getting caught while shooting a wolf are pretty slim. Everyone that enjoys hunting or time in the wilds,owes it to themselves to shoot every fucking wolf they come across. A good cheap .22 to the guts and these cocksuckers will die a good miserable death and be nearly untraceable.

Shoot, Shovel and Shut the F*ck up. That seems to be the easy way. The problem is you should not have to do that. There should be someone managing things.

When I lived in N.MN. I knew of many dogs that were killed/eaten by wolves..That is where SSS started andit has to happen here too. Snares are cheap, set and forget.

I don't mind the reintroduction of wolves.

But that they are left unmanaged is irresponsible and assinine.

I think there should be no limit and no closed season on them. This would leave a small population in remote areas where they belong.

I am against poaching of any kind and leaving wolf snares out unchecked would land just as many deer, elk, moose (any critter for that manner) as it would wolves.

I thought this would be a thread about a human getting attacked (so rare as to nearly be undocumented). I dont like dogs anyway so I was less than reactive to the pictures.

Just in case anyone doesn't know this. Wolves HATE all canines. The biggest killer of wolves is other wolves. They will desimate the local coyotes and foxes and will eat the dog off the backporch too.

I heard that insurance companies are behind the wolves to hopefully rid the U.S. of our deer and elk and moose to keep car collisions with them down.

Obviously you liked your dogs.

Sorry about your loss.

THe only good wolf is a dead one!

I like dogs and am sorry about the loss of those dogs.

I come from NY state, so I don't have the firsthand experiences that many of you have with the wolf. It's easy to be emotional about this story, but I find it hard to put blame on the wolf for doing what it did. By all indications the wolf was likely doing something that came natural to it - protecting it's territory or killing for food. Wolves are at the top of the predator chain, and like them or not, they are intelligent, adaptable and dangerous wild animals.

I can understand how many find blame with the Fish & Game Depts. and/or USF&W Service for the management plans of the wolf. If there is anyone to "blame", it would be them.

As for those who would like to exerminate every wolf, they really need to put a little more thought into the idea and be a little less selfish. Predator populations in proper proportion to prey populations help to maintain healthy prey population, diversity and disease. (The "antis" in one of our northeast states decided to try the other extreme by outlawing trapping - guess what state is now overrun with coyote and beaver problems and no way to fix it?).

quote:

I thought this would be a thread about a human getting attacked (so rare as to nearly be undocumented).

A couple of years ago, I was doing my morning constitutional just at first light in an outhouse in Canada. I had the door open because it was just beginning to get light (and also didn't particularly like the malodorous perch).

Just yawning and farting, unconcerned about much anything, in the dim light I saw some movement in the bushes about 15 yards across a little strip of gravel. Like a fuzzy picture coming into focus, I recognized that two wolves were belly crawling towards me.

I simultaniously shit, pissed, screamed like hell, slammed the door and lost two years off of my life. I don't think I took a dump the rest of the week.

Those wolves might have been just crawling around for the heck of it, but they had the hell fooled out of me.

quote:

Originally posted by erict:
As for those who would like to exerminate every wolf, they really need to put a little more thought into the idea and be a little less selfish. Predator populations in proper proportion to prey populations help to maintain healthy prey population, diversity and disease.

Predator populations in proper proportion to to prey population is a wonderful thing. When you have a predator that kills just for the shear enjoyment of killing it's time for a change. Wolves rate right up there with child molesters in my book. The world would be a better place without either one.

I know I live out east in Pennsylvania and the nearest wild wolf is nearly 1500miles away... but I'll say right now that they'd better stay there.

If I see one I know I'll be unable to repress the urge to kill it.

Unmanaged wolves are no different from unprosecuted serial killers. And the people who are failing to manage them need to be given some bullet holes as badly as the unmanaged wolves do...


AllanD

I am sorry for this man's loss - I grew up thinking wolves were not dangerous - I have learned different from posts like this - I never go anywhere in the outdoors unarmed (usually a rifle and a 45LC)anymore.

They say that you can't shoot a wolf in this state for attacking a dog.

But if they are attacking my dog, I'll be within 5 yards and I'll consider it an attack on me - and it's going down.

Damn. I remember some of arguments for re-introducing wolves, but nobody mentioned this sort of thing, just how the wolves would eat the old, the sick, the lazy, and leave us the trophy heads. Time to get off the fence and take a side.

I'm so sorry for your loss!!!!!!!!!
I know how atached you are to your dogs, I saw it one time when I hunted with Bridger of try state outfitters for mnt lion. His dogs as wel as yours was part of the famlie.

I glad your ok but wish you would have had your conceld cary gun ( I wounder if a wolf thretens your life is it more protected than if a man thertens you life?)

You need to send this letter to your congressman
and let them know what happend!!!!!!!! that is where cange can begin ( I hope)

I was in Cascade ID working on a radar nere there talking to the site tech and road crew listing to them lament obout the loss of elk and deer on the mountian!!!!!!!!!!!
But I never thought it would come to this.

Good luck in all you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow,
A lot of strong emotions on this one. I have an idea. 1st, lets kill all the wolfs, thats a no brainer. Then, lets kill all the lions in Africa. Leopards would be next naturally. Lets rid Asia of the few remaining Tigers as those things are so big and scary. Then, we'll fish the seas clear of sharks. I have heard that deer kill more people than any other wild animal in this country (car accidents) so for sure lets get rid of all of them. Pretty soon, we will have a world that is exactly how I think it should be.

Seriously, this comes down to values. I don't think we are here to have control over nature, but to participate in it. I would like to see the wolf's distribution spread, but we should be allowed to hunt wolves and control them just like anyother animal. I am hardly a liberal by any stretch of the imagination, and grew up on a farms where we regularly had coyotes kill sheep, but I value all of creation. The beauty of nature is in it's diversity. My father always taught me that everything in nature has its place. Frankly, I'm somewhat shocked by all the language about wanting to cause harm to those who favor wolf reintroduction (like myself. Do you really want to kill me? )

On a side note, do you have any idea what this sort of language sounds like when put on the news by the antis. It sounds like extremist idiocy. While I don't think that you all really would like to kill me (I hope not), everyone should remember that those that opose gun rights/hunting are likely perusing these boards.

Anyone with me on this or am I just an extremist, liberal bunnyhugging fag?

Wes

I'm inclined to agree with your last 7 words

It is interesting in that the law allows a cattle or sheep rancher that has permitted stock on National Forest lands to use deadly force on wolves that threaten livestock or their stock dogs but does not allow that same right to any other dog owner using National Forest lands. The Idaho Sportsmans Advisory Council has sent a letter supporting the extenson of that right to other Forest users to the USFWS.

465H&H

The sad part is that this mis-guided adventure of aggressive re-introduction of wolves has had such a negative impact of the elk, deer numbers that it's not likely to be brought back into any semblance of managed balance in our lifetimes.

quote:

Originally posted by brianbo:
I'm inclined to agree with your last 7 words

Ditto. I tear'd up reading the account. Anyone who loves dogs should hate wolves after reading this.

Mob mentality at its best!!

So, by the same logic we ought to ban guns to!

My step-father was murdered with a 12 gauge shotgun at 10 yards (twice in the chest).

I had to go ID him so that my mother wouldn't have to.

Look, what happened to this guys dogs SUCKS!! But many of you are beginning to sound like emotional liberal anti-gun bunnyhuggers. I'm sure I'll get villified on this board for the next couple of hours (wouldn't be the first time...probably wont be the last time either) but I think 465H&H has it about right, rules should be changed to allow for the shooting of wolves to protect your dogs, but calling for the eradication of the wolf is just as stupid as saying guns should be banned because people we know were killed with them.

But its not as if the wolf topic hasn't been beaten to death already................

IV

I see 3 people defending the poor wolf two from out east and a misguided westerner.

You in AK. don't count as you can shoot all you want +(I don't trust anyone who dosen't like dogs)

I remember the wolf debate very well 1993 it started and all you folks in the east had this wolf plan for the folks in the west just so happened the folks in the west did not want the fucken wolves.

I don't piss in your back yard so don't piss in mine you like wolves then start a movement to import them to the east and south.

We can transplant the first pack to Hope AR.

If they had killed my dogs I would be the wolves worst nightmare.

Just to expand the discussion a bit. How would you african hunters or want to be african hunters feel if the leopard was wiped out in Africa? Would Africa be a less apealing place to hunt? Leopards eat more dogs in one day in Africa than wolves have eaten in the last 20 years. It seems to me that the wolves are here in the west to stay no matter how many of us don't want them. Now the trick is how do we learn to live with them? I think it is by managing them just as we do black bears, mtn. lions and grizzly bears. Calling for their elimination is farting in the wind. JMHO!

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by DennisHP:Anyone who loves dogs should hate wolves after reading this.

I'm not a dog lover. That aside, I can sympathize with the loss of a beloved pet.

However ...... the dude was asking for it. Wolves are territorial. If another wolf enters a pack's territory, the trespassing wolf may be attacked and driven off. That's normal wolf behavior. Perhaps the same instincts kick in when the pack encounters a domestic dog.

I think that is probably what happened, and not because the wolves were starving (the still-increasing wolf population suggests that the wolves are getting enough to eat). Far from saving his life, the dogs put him in danger.

Or another way of looking at it is, he put his dogs in danger by taking them into wolf country, when it is a well known fact that wolves are territorial creatures that attack trespassing canines. As any good conservative would point out, the "victim" needs to take responsibility for his bad judgement, and stop whining and blaming.

About a month ago, I heard a similar story of wolves attacking a pack of hunting hounds in the Pittsburg Landing area. It may have been the same incident, but the details were completely different, so I think it was a seperate, additional incident. It sounds like wolves truly do resent domestic dogs invading their territory.

Personally, I wouldn't take a dog into wolf country, and personally, I don't enjoy or approve of harassing black bears by chasing them with dogs, and personally, it would be fine with me if the use of dogs to hunt or harass big game were totally outlawed in Idaho.

I agree with the "victim" that the wolf numbers are out of control and hurting our big game populations. Idaho's plan for controlled hunting of wolves may address that concern -- but Idaho can't start issuing wolf tags until Wyoming grows up and presents a realistic management plan. Idaho is being punished for Wyoming's mistake.

And by the way, Hunt-ducks, I live in wolf country, near where these attack(s) took place, so I must be a misguided westerner? There isn't a day that goes by when I don't worry about my pets being eaten by wild predators, though the hawks, eagles, fox, and coyotes are a bigger threat to my cats than the wolves. I choose to live here precisely because I love the wildlife, including all those predators.

popman

I feel sorry for people like you with your misguided thoughts about hunting with dogs, so we need to end bird and waterfowl hunting with them also.

I'm so glad you love wildlife do you hunt other then with a key board, I have found since AG invented the internet we have so many experts and hunters that never get off there ass and away from the key board and have such a narrow mind about the way someone hunts, but i'm sure your a bear killing machine.

Get this out of your mind that they are going to hunt wolves in the lower 48 won't happen, some court in the east or on the left coast will stop every propsed hunt in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by popenmann:
but Idaho can't start issuing wolf tags until Wyoming grows up and presents a realistic management plan. Idaho is being punished for Wyoming's mistake.

Just what does Wyoming have to do with Idaho's issuing of wolf tags? And just for your edification the wolves were re-introduced in Yellowstone. Thats federal property and the people of Wyoming did'nt have a goddamned thing to say about it. Do you think any cattleman in his right mind would want blood thirsty killers turned loose on his livelihood? Wolves don't kill just for survival. They kill and leave animals lay. They are like a cat with a mouse only they are killing cattle, deer and elk and it's just a matter of time until they turn to humans. Protect the wolves? FUCK the wolves!

Jim White1

The problem now is that Idaho can not issue hunting tags for sport hunting of wolves because the wolf is still considered an Endangered Species in the Montana, Idaho and Wyoming area. The USFWS has turned managment of the wolf over to Idaho with certain restrictions. Idaho can kill wolves that are attacking livestock or humans (if that should ever happen). Idaho can not control wolves to meet wolf prey species management goals unless they have an approved plan by USFWS. The USFWS is ready to delist the wolf in these three states but won't until Wyoming has an USFWS approved wolf management plan. Wyoming wants to kill any wolf seen outside the yellowstone Park which the USFWS will not approve.

Consequently, Idaho or Montana can't do much to manage wolf populations until wolves are delisted and we have full management authority.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Jim White1

The problem now is that Idaho can not issue hunting tags for sport hunting of wolves because the wolf is still considered an Endangered Species in the Montana, Idaho and Wyoming area. The USFWS has turned managment of the wolf over to Idaho with certain restrictions. Idaho can kill wolves that are attacking livestock or humans (if that should ever happen). Idaho can not control wolves to meet wolf prey species management goals unless they have an approved plan by USFWS. The USFWS is ready to delist the wolf in these three states but won't until Wyoming has an USFWS approved wolf management plan. Wyoming wants to kill any wolf seen outside the yellowstone Park which the USFWS will not approve.

Consequently, Idaho or Montana can't do much to manage wolf populations until wolves are delisted and we have full management authority.

465H&H

465 H&H, I was not aware of all that. It's been a while since I lived in Wyoming. Thank you for the heads up. Jim

Why I don't like dogs.

In the last week my kids have been chased twice in my own yard.

Dogs are completely unpredictable.

The dogs that don't chase the kids just piss all over the toys my fence my house.

Yesterday I got to see a poor lady walking her dog on a leash and a pit bull attacked it. The woman was screaming and trying to hold her own dog as it was getting chewed on by the other dog.

I had my 5 and 6 year old kids with me and they could never fend off an attack like that.

I was attacked by a dog when I was twelve and have not been a dog lover since.

Alaskans don't count?! We have 10000 wolves in Alaska and they eat dogs here too. We can only shoot them during open seasons. And we argue about the best policies to manage them here too. I think we are at the least qualified to discuss the wolves.

I may be an Alaskan but my heart is in Montana too. I only lived there for nine years but would go back if I could make a living there. Figure I'll just retire there.

A mis-guided westerner? Wow!

I love it when Californians try to impart their will on Idaho.

I got an idea: Before Californians try and tell us how or how not to manage wildlife in IDAHO-- how about we in Idaho start telling you how to deal with crime in your cities, or gang activity in L.A. Or maybe securing your southern border???

I really do not know what geography has to do with an intelligent debate about wolves. For one, where someone lives should not preclude them from entering in to the debate. Whether it be New York, Georgia, or CALIFORNIA.

When it comes to local politics, well, I guess my vote counts in Idaho, and yours doesn't.

I think the wolves wil be here for awhile

I also believe, they will be managed properly, as the citizens of the state of Idaho see fit. That means hunting, shooting them for protection of property and humans, it does not mean EXTIRPATION.

How is the wildlife management going in California, anyway?

IV

quote:

Originally posted by popenmann: I choose to live here precisely because I love the wildlife, including all those predators.

Couldn't have said it better!

IV

"Wolves attack trespassing canines" because they are FOOD, not because they are trespassing. Look at the pics, did the wolves just kill the dogs? Nope, they ate them.
Wolves are a killing machine, it moves, they kill/eat it. Just doing their job.
My only problem with having wolves in the wild, is I haven't shoot enough of the sum bitches.
I see a wolf, I shoot. It's called predator CONTROL, not eradication.

As far as idaho goes. Your governor summed it up best,when the threat of reintroducing grizzlies was brought up. "The only reason we'd want grizzlies,is if they ate wolves". I wouldn't put much stock in what the posters from idaho and georgia have to say about wolves. The supposed idahoans are just transplants anyway.

The problem with having a national park in your state. Is you end up with every out of state idiots stupid fucking ideas being unleashed on you.

465 brought up the right to kill wolves by stockmen on grazing leases. This is total bullshit. The only entity with the right to kill wolves is the federal goverment. As a stockmen you report all kills and hope that the feds arrive soon enough to determine cause of death to the livestock and reimburse you for wolf kills. Grizzly kills are paid for by the state. Meaning that even more money is taken from wildlife management and spent on some bullshit endangered species management. What the feds don't cover for wolf damage,is partially covered by funds provided by the idiot cocksuckers that are backing wolf reintro,through a donation fund that they started to try and justify their stupid fucking idea of wolf reintro.

A prime example of wolves in action and the amount of money the feds waste on them,is well documented on the Diamond G ranch in what is known as as the dunoir valley near yellowstone park. The feds fly the ranch every morning keeping tabs on wolves. To date the wolves have killed on average 60 plus calves a year,7 horses that were in corrals at the ranch headquarters and 6 dogs. The dogs were killed in front of the owner,while letting them out to piss. Just the calves alone depending on age and weight cost the public anywhere from 40 to 50 grand a year,to reimburse. Before wolves were reintroduced,this same ranch had 20 or less calves killed a year,and no horse or dog kills.

SB 45

Isn't is amazing the different respones you got here on a hunting web sight verses over at THR that is more and more becoming the closet anti hunting sight?

(H&Hhunter) over there.