Yesterday afternoon I was out looking for some pigs, that I eventually came across. I have been carrying a Sauer 202 in 7mm mag because I wanted to see how it would perform after having a few very bad failures, and because it is such a nice gun to shoot. Well this time, as the last, and the time before that, it failed me miserably.
the last 2 pigs I have used it on were eventually found, both the day after. In both cases shots were "perfectly" placed, as demonstrated by the tiny holes that looked like those left by a FMJ...

The third time still unlucky boar was not found today, he was shot from about 80 meters, of a rest, with the steccher(hair trigger) set. Federal factory loads, Nosler 180ng partition. The last two were taken with 160grainsers, so I though trying a heavier bullet might do some more damage. At the shot he seperated from the rest of the herd, and ran straight for the thickest bush there is, never to be seen again.
I am %99 sure about teh shot placement, so I'm just as sure he is dead out therre somewhere.

How can it be that I repetedly see this caliber failing so miserably, or maybe it is the Nosler partitions that are ALL a bad batch?

I dont want to say the 7mm is crap, but iit has tried it's very hardest to convince me of it.

EXPRESS exsactly what bullet did you use?

I'm not aware of any 180 grains 7mm bullet at all? Is it the 175 grains partition?

I've only shot one european pig until now but it died instantly after being hit with a 150 grains Partition fron a 7x61 S&H.

Maybe you should try to use a softer bullet like the RWS TIG? How big are the pigs your are shoting in Italy?

Regards

Mads

Correction; it was a 160gn nosler partition, not 180.
The pigs were; one enourmous boar that I was not able to weigh, and guess his weight somewhere shy of 150GK one a 40gk boar and yesterday a good 70 - 80gk boar.

Another occasion that the 7mm let me down terribly was a big heavy(100kg?) fallow stag that took 3 shots to kill. The first was a little too far back, but he was slightly quartering away so it took out the liver and touched the back of the lungs, 2 more running shots hit, one high on the hindquarter and another in the gut. A third shot missed. The poor beast lasted several hours as the wound channels were truly pathetic. I only had 4 rounds with me, not expecting to need any more, so I just had to wait him out.

I have used the 7x65R with RWS 162gn Keigelspitz(cone point) quite a lot this year and it has never let me down.

If I ever regain any trust in it, I will try something very soft and see how it works.

I'd reccomend you place a bullet into the vitals of an animal, it may work better for you. Hindquarter and gut shots tend to give any animal a rush of adrenaline, and they will go incredible distances beforing dieing. The best performing hunting bullet will still do little damage on a stomach shot. If your shot hit a vital organ, you'd be eating bacon right now. I don't know what type of bullets are available where you hunt, but a expanding bullet in the 160-175 gr. weight will kill a pig very dead. Try shooting for the heart/lungs, they are a good spot to hit to ensure a quick, humane kill.

Cartridge cases don't kill, bullets do.

I've never heard of a Partition not expanding, but I suppose anything is possible. If anything, I think they "wipe their nose" off a little too easy. But an under 200 lb animal, shot in the business part of the chest with a expanding 160 gr. .284 bullet cannot go far. Just no way. 100 or even 150 yards, sure.

The only way to drop them on the spot is to hit the head or spine, or get a very frangible bullet, very fast, and "triurate" the chest cavity. JMO, Dutch.

EXPRESS, I don't believe your 7mm mag FAILED you. On the contrary I think you might need to take another look at shot placement on a pig. The caliber has more than enough energy and bullet mass to down pigs all day long.

We at the house have taken several elk over the years using a 160 grain and 175 grain Nosler partition bullets. You sir either placed the bullet to far back or to high on the pig. You never did say where it was those bullets hit and exited did you?

Next time out the gate after pigs, try using the 175 grn Nosler partition and study up on where it is that bullet needs to go for a clean quick kill.

EXPRESS, A friend of mine was instructed to never bring nosler partition bullets on his (the owner's) game ranch ever on a guided hunt. He said he never had good luck with them. Does he know something? I dont know, but that's pretty strong language to use with a 6k$ customer! I do know that the place to hit a hog is just behind the ear. It is the foolproof location for a clean effictive kill, even with a partition. mvm

Before you all go jumping on the bullet placement, I will recall that on the two recovered pigs, the bullet exit and entry hole indicated, in both instances impact to the centre of the shoulder, which should have broken the bone, and destroyed the lungs.

I hunt these pigs on a day to day basis, with a wide variety of calibers, and have never had this happen with any other bullet.
The 7x65R, .30-06, .270 .300WIN .308WIN and others that get used in rotation all do the job very well indeed.
The shot placement was not to blame, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to post about my suspicions about these bullets(noslers) come out of this rifle(7mm).

The Sauer 202 is also a very accurate and well balanced rifle with a very, very nice trigger, so as I have'nt found it incostistent on paper, and have not found myself to be so incosistent on game with any other rifles, I will blame the bullets.

I think the 7mm mag is a good caliber, very fast and very flat shooting as well as accurate.
Next time I will try using it over long distance to see if it improves down range with the bullets travelling a little slower.

Be that as it may your experience is quite the opposite of mine...I have used the 160, 150 and 175 partitions on hundreds of animals of all sizes over the years with complete success..pigs are not that hard to kill...Everyone I poked a hole in the right spot didn't make a lot of tracks.

What is strange is I, rather we have shot a lot of pig with solids and didn't have the trouble your having..We use solids so as not to bloodshot them as thats what we bar b que over mesquite coal in camp...Love them pigs...

Express the .270 is So close to the 7mm mag ballistics wise I don't understand your problem. You kill the pigs with the .270 but NOT the 7mm mag! I would test those bullets your shooting, just to settle any doubts about them.

If those Noslers didn't mushroom out like they are supposed to, they still would have whistled clean on through that pig correct? Well in doing so the vital zone would have a pass through and thus that pig would not have gone very far if hit in the proper area.

The only possible cause I can see would be if those Noslers that you have loaded up, just blew up on contact, but you stated that wasn't the case. How's your eyesight these days?

I find this story a little hard to believe. The only logical reason could be shots that are not well placed. I use Nosler Partitions in a 270 and have never had any problems taking game such as deer, bear, caribou and moose.

I would suggest that more attention be given to what part of the animal you are shooting at.

If I were you I'd try the 120 or 140 grain ballistic tip and see how that works.

could it be possible that at that close range (80m) that the 7mm just goes like a lightning bolt and tunnels thru not opening, but still if proper shot placment had been achived he would still die

Could it be that you just needed a spoon to stir up this stew ? 270, 7X65, 7 mag---they all work the same, and quite well.The Nosler Partition 160 gr. has killed several dozen of deer at ranges from 15 yards to 300+ yds, as well as numerous elk with boring regularity for me. THE DAMNED THING WORKS RIGHT EVERY TIME! I don't, but the combo you describe does. Chuck

How do the ballistics for the 7x61 S&H, the 7x65R and 7x64 compare to the 7mm Rem mag?

I'm with Ray, in that my wife and I have killed LOT of game with the 7mm Mag.

Using 162 gr Hornady SPBT on long ranges, and 175 gr Hornady RN for anything expected to taken at 100 +/- yards.

If I were to come hunt hogs with you, I'd have not reservations about bringing my 7mm mag, and I would bring 175 Hornady RN to do the job.

Noslers............. seldom use them, not been impressed over the years.

[ 06-26-2002, 15:47: Message edited by: Terry Blauwkamp ]

Dark Palladin: In my experience the faster the impact velocity the greater the expansion the larger the wound channel and the lower the penetration. I flat out don't believe this story or there is a bad lot of bullets out there.

A touching liver/lung shot with any bullet from any case is going to cause the stalker problems which may only be made worse by follow up shots to the limbs and gut.

Three animals one of whom was by your own admission poorly shot and one of which has yet to be recovered is not really the basis to convincingly damn a round on.

Did you find blood at the site of the strike?

There is a possibility that we have ignored here.

Maybe in light of the new higher velocity 7mm's, like the 7 STW and the ultra mags, Nosler could be using harder lead in its bullets. And factory loads are known for being light, so absent hitting a major bone maybe the bullets are not expanding.

I would recommend one more pig hunt with some cheap crappy bullets like Hornady or Speer. Also try a lighter weight like 140. I think the lighter cheap bullets will open up find.

Just a suggestion.

I won't buy it either. Years ago, I've shot my share of Wild Boars with a 7RM without any problem, so long bullet placement was OK (and with factory 150 Remington Core-Lokts at that). As for a rough power comparison : 7x64 = 7x65R and 7x61 SH = 7 RM, so much for that. We'll have to look for another cause : bullet placement maybe...

Here's my guess....

You shot some pigs up close and the muzzle velocity was very fast, the Nosler blew off the front portion of the bullet as happens from time to time and it made soup out of the inside of the pig and the exit hole was caliber size as the back portion went through and that small exit hole freaked you out....so perhaps you added the part about them running to far or how far they ran...Hows that for close?

north, I have never used a 7mm and most of my rifles are quite the opposite, big slow and heavy. My father hunted lots of animals with the 7mm and partions and he told me of a few instances where the round zipped through the animal, now he has never lost a animal so I rather belive that at close range this is possible out of many tens of thousands of rounds he has shot, he tells me about 4-5 times this happened, all at close range (50m or less)so what im saying is that in those multi 10's of thousands of rounds that he could have gotten 4-5 bad rounds that did not open up. Now if in that many rounds you could recive 4-5 bad rounds who is to say that express dosn't just have bad luck and cought his 3-4 bad bullets in the first few?

Ray
I have had the exact same thing happen to me wiht a bear. Close range, 7mm RM, 175gr Partitions.

Small (caliber size) entrance hole. Slightly larger (twice caliber size) exit wound. Everything in between pretty much mush, and one completely wrecked shoulder.

Bear made it about 30 yards, probably because he rolled downhill while dead!

Gotta be shot placement. I took my best black bear(over 600lbs) and a med bull elk with the Nosler 160gr Partition out of a 7mag. Both animals had complete pass thru and died quickly. The Nosler Partition is a well proven game bullet. MtnHtr

I'm not going to condemn his shooting, or the bullets, but to say that a 7mm mag won't kill the biggest pig that ever made bacon is bull scat. I would suggest that he needs a friend who can trail better......

Looks like Judge and jury have come to the conclusion that the 7mm mag is not at fault in this case!

Just to many OLD GOATS sittin on the JURY!

IF you are in fact displeased with the results of how the 7mm mag and Nosler bullets work on game animals after being hit, I would suggest to you a Marlin 45/700 and 400 grain bullet.
Case Close Gentlemen!

I have killed a ton of game with a 7mm Rem. Mag loaded with 175 grain Trophy Bonded. I have never had a problem except in cases of poor shot placement. The Trophy Bondeds always expand, but hold together and penetrate very well.

I have a client who just got back from Africa last week who did have some problems with Fail Safes in his 7mm, though. I confirmed with his PH that he shot 3 animals in the shoulder (Wildebeest, Nyala, and Zebra) that ran off. They were eventually put down for good after a lot of shooting. When they examined them, they found that many of the Fail Safes were flattening out on the shoulder. This must have been a bad lot of bullets (he has sent samples of the recovered bullets and laoded ammo to Winchester), because Fail Safes usually hold together very well (sometimes too well).

I didn't post this to start a new thread on Fail Safes. If you like a really tough bullet, they are great. I just posted it to illustrate that bad lots do escape the factory. It's not the first and won't be the last time it happens. That being said, be honest with yourself. If your shot placement was good, something may be wrong with your bullets. More often than not, however, lost animals are a result of poor shot placement.

Second what dice states. The 45/70 is just an awsome killer "I'm Excited"

I also use the 300 grain sierra's loaded to 2150 fps and the expand like rotted bannanas. Jus trade that 7mm on a good 45/70 you just could not go wrong.

I wish I had a box of ammo for my .300 mag. for every story I have heard of a 7mm mag. failing.
Your story is like many others I have heard. Game found eventualy with entry and exit hole in the vitials but very small and little damage done. Why I don't know. For some reason the 7mm mag seems to be a love it or hate it round. I will stick with my .300.

I wish I had a box of 7mmmag shells,for every guy that bought a 7mm mag,in order to over come a flinch.Even though they flinched shooting a .270 or 30/06. and now they can't figure out why the big 7 isn't any more accurate or deadly then the non mag caliber they used before and the only logical solution is to buy something even bigger.

The most consistant thing about the 7mag,is the amount of guys who end up sporting the dreaded half moon on their forehead after the annual firing of the big 7 off of a sleeping,cardboard box or other rock solid benchrest device.

[ 06-29-2002, 09:52: Message edited by: RMK ]

work up a load with the 140 grn barnes xlc. It will kill just about anything shy of maybe a cape buffalo. Very reliable expansion and weight retention and the nastiest wound channel I have ever seen. Killed several large bodied whitetail and 4 hogs. the only thing that ever moved after the shot was the dust that flew up when they hit the ground.

It always amazes me to see people bashing the 7mm. I acquired one years ago in a trade and started hunting deer with it when I lived in AZ. I loaded the 139 grain Hornadys. It performed flawlessly on every deer that I ever shot with it. I moved to NM and loaded 160 Barnes to hunt elk and Oryx. The 160s performed perfectly on elk and three Oryx, which are tougher than any elk. I then loaded 175 Hornadys because I bought a second rifle that didn't like the Barnes. They, too, performed flawlessly on elk from point blank to a measured 277 yards. Had I not gotten the rifle in a trade, I probably would have gotten a different caliber, but I have no complaints about my 7mms. If I was to get another gun, I think that there are better options now that don't have a belted case, but I do not regret owning the ones that I have. I have never come close to having a failure with any bullet that I have used in the 7. The only bullet that ever failed me was a Sierra 165 in a .308. If you do your part, the gun will do its part.

I agree with the "speak English or leave".

You will have to put the blame someplace else other than Nosler. Too many dead critters on the ground by a bunch of us to go for that excuse.
I have not shot them in 7 Mag but in 7/08 and a many other calibers. The only animals I have lost in 64 yrs is due to one thing...P poor shooting on my part.
As a customer once said when he came into my store.
"Well, I finally figured out why my rifle was missing all those deer. The damn thing was shooting right where I aimed it!"
That has remained a favorite of mine all thru the years and I know that has been what is wrong with several of my rifles!

PC! Dice2 said "45/700".....well its as good as the story that was told of the 7mm mag.

Hi guys,

Just got back from a 2 week trip to the Northern Territory where my Rem 700 BDL .7mmRem Mag did superbly well knocking down the Water Buffalo with one shot. I was using 175g Woodleigh bullets (protected point) and they were majic on the 35 pigs we got as well.

I cannot speak highly enough of the .7mmRem Mag.
I certainly won't be buying any heavier rifles.

Ciao, Matt

Howard Homesley used a 7MM mag on our recent trip to RSA. He took an Nyala, Impala, blessbok and Eland all with one shot, with Nosler 160 grain partitions.

EXPRESS,
Anything I say is just a S.W.A.G., and I'll be the first to admit that this is only a S.W.A.G.. I wonder if you might be using to much bullet. From the weight estimates, there just might not be enough body mass to force the 160 grain Nosler Partition to function. You might be better off going with a 140 or 150 grain bullet. Of the two, I'd try the 140 grain bullet first. I hope that this is of some help. Good luck.

Well I'll jump in here with my 2 cents.

The Nosler bullet is good,But you are useing you said 170 grain.To heavy for the 7 mm.
better choice would be a 150 grain barnes.You will lay them low with them.
Works for me.
Oh and try to hit the heart lung area.much better shot placement helps

7x61 S&H is the dady of the Rem 7 mm mag .My sako Finbear has never let down in the past 35 years.