It's funny taht ya'll posted this video! I spent half of a day at barnes about 3 weeks ago, and I got to talk to the guy who was involved in making this video. The idea is to show you in slow motion what exactly theis bullet does. By the way, have ya'll ever felt of picked up ballistic gellatin? It's pretty impressive stuff. This is a great opportunity to learn about bullets and performance.
..........wapiti7

quote:

I wonder why Barnes does.?.?.

because some people have to see the truth more than once to get it.

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
I'm gonna have to be the first to call B.S.

BS or not, still fun to watch. BTW, what part is BS?

quote:

Animals are not ballistic gelatin.

True, but I don't think many Game and Fish departments would allow Barnes to line up a bunch of elk, deer, sheep, etc., and shoot them to demonstrate bullet performance.

That is why we have standards. Ballistic Gel is test media used by all hunting bullet manufacturers.

I suppose most all medical procedures can be called BS too since they are not tested on humans first?

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
I will say this about you folks that do like them. Ya'll like them enough that everytime somebody has something bad to say about them, you would think the person said something bad about your Mother. That's loyalty in it's finest form.

Todd

Not so fast. I like them, but I'm not "passionate" about any bullet. I have no doubts whatsoever that many folks have had TSX or originals fail.

To answer your Aframe question. The answer is no. I've never heard of an Aframe failing. However, I did take a friend to KS a few years ago and he shot a buck at 50 or so yards with a 200 Grain Aframe from his 300 mag. The entrance hole, exit hole were caliber sized. The lungs had a hole no larger than a nickel in diameter.

Maybe the bullet was too tough? I don't know, but they shot very well in his rifle.

I posted the video simply because it is interesting to watch. Sorry it ruffled your feathers. That was not the intent.

well it is a neat video anyway thanks for posting it.
-----------------------
companys keep changing and improving their products so you will keep buying them what was wrong with the 57 chevy why make a 58 I dont think it was better.

Friend I am truly sorry you had a bad time with some barnes bullets and yes I have fired thousands of them and had no problems Im not sure wich one of us it makes hard headed may be me.

yes I have had partitions fall apart and a frames that I thought did not open but proper placement saved my ass again so no big deal. IF I had had a bullet act like 2 of the ones you show I would be about solving the problem not condeming the company and the entire product line and marketing scheme. if you dont like em by all means dont use them but they are not out to get you or get over on anybody.

I do not believe that they are out to sell something that does not work they are just out to sell their product if you think that is wrong you are the one to pasionate about them.

not pickin a fight with you or anything just my .02 worth .

Thanks for posting the video. It is a lot better than the DVD I have from Barnes a few years ago.

I too have one recovered TSX - my first ever recovered bullet. That is because it didn't exit the young bull moose I shot.

Well this is my first season switching from Partition to TSX. The 600 lb bull was shot quartering away from me at 75 yards with my 300wm. The 200 gr bullet entered at the back rib, destroyed one liver and one lung and stopped at the far shoulder. It must have travelled over 36". One shot and it drop within 15 feet.

I can’t say I am totally disappointed. The bullet open up as advertised and the bull is dead. However, without the bullet exiting, there was no blood at all, and if it didn’t drop, I wouldn’t have found it.

In my case, shooting a 200 gr bullet travelling >2750 fps at short distance I sure expect the bullet to pass through the animal.

For those of you that have a large collection of used TSX, are you saying that it is a common scene that the bullets stay in?

Your comments and or advice are appreciated.

I have only recovered two TSXs. 1 from a brown bear and one from an axis deer. Both traveled about 30 inches of animal and were recovered undert he far side hide.

What I find most amazing is that people:

a) think that the bullets they didn't recover all performed perfectly

and

b) that the majoirty of their hit and unrecovered anilmals are bullet failure.

I enjoyed the video.

I haven't watched the video, I will when I get time. A fellow I know has a 300 gr barnes X fired out of a 375 H&H into an elephant that sits on his mantle. It didn't expand, just kind of bent into a banana shape. Fortunately, the target being an elephant, he was able to recover the bullet and since he shot it several times it didn't get away. I know of several other "suspected" barnes X failures but the problem with proving it is that the bullet is almost never recovered when the target is deer, they just whiz on through into the netherworld. The barnes cheerleaders all scoff at the idea of an X failing to open and want to see proof. Well, due to the nature of the failure there isn't any proof since the bullet isn't recovered. In the case of the elephant it was recovered and I got to see first hand a failed X bullet. I'm personally convinced it's lost my friends a few well hit deer and I see no reason to use them when there are so many excellent, reliable bullets out there on the market.

I recover less than 1% of barnes fired I just shoot alot of them. I have a wildcat that only shoots about 2400 fps 160 gr 338 x bullet so I recover some of them they hit at about 1800 fps and open up 80% +- every time so far the ones I have found on the ground behind a pig went all the way through then hit the second pig and fell to the ground.

also have many that I recoverd out of the second pig at traditional velocity for 338.

even the slow ones pass all he way through a deer or pig

We are not talking X bullets, but rather TSX bullets. There is a difference.

What I would like to see on these pencil through cases, is a picture of the carcass of the animal it went through. I shot a WT deer a week or so ago, and the hole in the hide on the exit side of the deer wasn't big enough to stick my pointer finger in. Under the hide was a different story.



Also, the notion that a deer will run 60yds if shot with some of these "hard" premium bullets and will go straight down when hit with a more explosive variety is IMO complete bunk. I used to hunt exclusively with a 308 and 125gr Nosler BT's at 3000 fps MV. I don't remember that combo ever putting anything to the ground right now, and in fact remember tracking a lung shot WT buck 70 to 80 yds picking up fist sized chunks of lung along the way.

The Antelope pictured below was shot this year face on with a 243 and 55 gr Nossler BT's at 4000 fps MV and he lived as long after being shot as the WT pictured above, and his chest cavity was lung soup.


Chuck

That was awesome.

Thanks for sharing.

I have not had any problems with barnes bullets.

Only killed a moose and couple deer with them but so far so good.

Fun Video.

When the comment "expands faster than all other bullets" is made, I would like to see that and the bullet track made by every other bullet Barnes is compairing themselves to in the full gell length.

As I was saying...absolutely amazing that those "well hit deer" got away...of course the hunter has proof that the deer was well hit...

Mike,
I had totally forgotten about the TSX recovery on the axis...

it was RIGHT on the other side, perfectly mushroomed.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by boltman:
The barnes cheerleaders.....

GO BARNES, GO BARNES GOOOOOOO BARNES!!

Worlds luckiest shot...60 yards on an axis deer in full gallop...

While the Barnes bullets certainly have turned in some impressive performances, the lineup has not been without problems. Addressing these issues, Barnes has now come out with the tipped TSX, a bullet with a polymer tip and a more cavernous hollow point to aid in low velocity/long range impacts.

This one may just be the cat's meow. I have 120 and 140 grainer TTSX bullets (all 7mm) on my reloading desk and hope to put them through the paces this Spring.

But in most of my hunting guns, premium bullets really aren't needed as they are in the larger-capacity rounds that truly stress and test a bullet's intergity upon impact.

Here's proof of what I am talking about:

Can you say pork chops...

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Barnes has now come out with the tipped TSX, a bullet with a polymer tip and a more cavernous hollow point to aid in low velocity/long range impacts. This one may just be the cat's meow.

I think you may be right. While I've never personally had any problems with the TSX, I've always been a fan of the polymer tipped bullets. Barnes had the right idea with their MRX, but I think it will fade away due to cost.

On the surface, I'd say Barnes may have finally perfected the original idea of the original Barnes X bullet/concept. Just a bit puzzling why it took this long.

A gaping hollow point with assisted expansion via a plastic tip, no lead, grooves for reduced friction/copper fouling, what more could you ask?

I'll probably start off with some 110 T-TSX bullets with IMR 4350 in my 270 when they are available.

In a bit, I'm going to go recover my first TSX. It is in a whitetail I shot a week ago and has been hanging. It was shot going almost straight away 250-275 yards with a .257 Wby, hit just above the nut sack in the left hindquarter, slid up his side busted all the ribs, came to rest somewhere in the shoulder,as there is plenty of bloodshot meat there. The hole immediately after hitting the HQ is about 3.5-4 in. About 4 ft o f penetration with a 100 .257 that was probably going 3000-3100 fps at impact. (mv 3670 fps) He dropped so fast in the tall grass, I never knew if I hit him or not until I drove down, just knew I didn't see him run off, I could see the other two bucks and a doe take off. I have only had to track one animal shot with a TSX and that was last year's whitetail, broke a front leg high on a running shot, killed him with the second through the paunch out the front of his chest. I have also hunted with them in the 7x57 (a lot), .338 WM and .338-06 all dropped at the shot. I hunt almost entirely with North Forks, TSX or Nosler partitions, and have virtually no bullet performance problems with any of them. Actually like the NF best, the TSX shoots so well in the .338's I can't not use them.

All of our fretting may be over. I just read an article about the new TIPPED Trophy Bonded Bear Claw! Nickle plated, plastic tipped and with Grooves!

I will try some as soon as I can, didn't say if bullets only would be available to us handloaders.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boy:
The 200 gr bullet entered at the back rib, destroyed one liver and one lung and stopped at the far shoulder.

You bagged one of the fabled two-livered moose? SWEET!

Sorry. I tried, but could not resist.

KG

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
All of our fretting may be over. I just read an article about the new TIPPED Trophy Bonded Bear Claw! Nickle plated, plastic tipped and with Grooves!

I will try some as soon as I can, didn't say if bullets only would be available to us handloaders.

ok I just have to ask

if the regular trophy bondeds were so good why make these new ones?

My experience with X and TSX types has been like that of jstevens. from the 160 grain to the 225 grainer from a 338 lapua I have in all but one instance had to walk to the kill to see if it was there. the deer have been down and dead in the tall stuff before I could find them in the scope following recoil. took a poor shot on a deer exiting the scene with the 160 a few years back and took out about 8 inches of spinal column and the left shoulder before exiting. left a halo of hair around the deer from the impact.
that said, the 140 grainers do not shoot well out of my 6.5, so i don't use them in that rifle.

Anybody notice the vapour trail in the video just before the first groundhog exploded?

I don't think I've ever seen one of those captured on video before.

I know there's a prairie dog video out, called "Dog be Gone" or something like that. You can watch all the bullet trails you want in that video.

Gentlemen,

Don't listen to the hype from the manufacturers.

Sooner or later, ALL bullets will fail!

The differnces are that some will fail by blowing up and not penetrating.

Others will fail by not opening up and whizzing right though.

I will take those that do not open up and whizz through any day.

I have shot 100s of game animals in Africa with various Barnes X bullets, and have never, ever, lost a single one that has been well hit.

Marginal shots are just that, and no matter what bullet, or caliber, is used, the animals is ging to be hard to kill.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Gentlemen,

Don't listen to the hype from the manufacturers.

Ahhh c'mon, all the hype is still fun to watch. Listening is one thing, believing is another. Regardless, it is amusing to watch all of the results of their efforts to sell bullets.

quote:

I will take those that do not open up and whizz through any day.

Same for me. I'd rather punch a caliber sized hole all the way through and still deflate the lungs as compared to having a bullet blow up just inside the skin and do little to no vital damage.

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boy:
The 200 gr bullet entered at the back rib, destroyed one liver and one lung and stopped at the far shoulder.

You bagged one of the fabled two-livered moose? SWEET!

Sorry. I tried, but could not resist.

KG

I managed!

quote:

Originally posted by 900 SS:

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boy:
The 200 gr bullet entered at the back rib, destroyed one liver and one lung and stopped at the far shoulder.

You bagged one of the fabled two-livered moose? SWEET!

Sorry. I tried, but could not resist.

KG

I managed!

and you had a liver left over to eat w/ onions.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Gentlemen,

Don't listen to the hype from the manufacturers.

Sooner or later, ALL bullets will fail!

The differnces are that some will fail by blowing up and not penetrating.

Others will fail by not opening up and whizzing right though.

I will take those that do not open up and whizz through any day.

I have shot 100s of game animals in Africa with various Barnes X bullets, and have never, ever, lost a single one that has been well hit.

Marginal shots are just that, and no matter what bullet, or caliber, is used, the animals is ging to be hard to kill.

I agree 100% with everything you said.

I've been using Barnes X-bullets of one type or another for several years now. I've only actually recovered 3 (should have recovered a 4th):

1. 6.5 mm 120 gr XLC - white tail buck - shot from a 6.5-284 at about 2900 fps (muzzle) at about 100 yards - bullet entered front of right ham, passed through about 28" of deer and ended up under the skin of the left shoulder

2. 6.5 mm 120 gr XLC - feral hog (boar) - shot from a 260 rem at about 2800 fps at about 25 yards - bullet entered left shoulder (skin over 1" thick), broke left shoulder, ribs, spine, ribs, right shoulder - lodged under skin of right side (skin 1" thick)

3. .308 ca 165 gr TSX - javelina(!) - shot from a 300 WSM at about 3100 fps at about 40 yards - bullet entered top of neck, blew up about 4" of spine, exited mid-gut, re-entered right rear leg, blew up knee, shin, etc, lodged (backwards) just above the ankle

I should have recovered (I blame a presumably lazy African Skinner) a 250 gr TSX shot out of my 9,3x62 at about 2500 fps - bullet broke both shoulders of a Blesbok and failed to exit - the skinner said that the bullet "blew up" and that he "couldn't find more than just a few small pieces" but I think that the guy was suspect (my PH didn't particularly trust him on this one either). I suppose its possible that the bullet deflected in the body and ended up in the body cavity or guts somewhere (my Dad once had a 240 gr .44 magnum bullet end up in a ham on a shoulder-shot whitetail), but I'm convinced that had I been looking for the bullet myself, that I'd have found it.

I have obviously had no confirmed cases of "bullet failure" - I had one buck that I hit poorly with the first shot which acted like the bullet zipped right through, but that's because it did! (Liver shot with a 120 6.5 XLC).

My PH blamed my first gemsbok's apparent loss on the Barnes Bullets. I apparently hit the bull in the heart (the PH said, judging from the Bull's reaction) but the bull ran off with an apparent limp . . . and absolutely no blood, hair, or any other sign that I'd hit him. We simply have no idea what happened on this one. If I were to bet, my bet would be either that I hit the bull too far back (liver) or with a grazing shot just a touch too low.

I give those last two examples not to blame Barnes bullets, but to blame myself - in other words, every single time I've put a Barnes bullet in the right place, its done its job.

What I like about these bullets is that the few times I've asked them to perform in sub-optimum conditions (e.g. raking shots) that they've penetrated extremely deeply and in a straight line. But I have little to compare them to - the only other premium bullet I've asked to make a compareable penetrating shot was a 140gr Nosler Partition in 7mm shot from 7x57 on a feral ("corsican") ram, and the front of the bullet came off and ended up in one place (off a straight line) while the rear half ended up elsewhere (also off the straight line). Of course, the ram ended up dead, so you couldn't call it "bullet failure" - I just didn't like that after hitting bone that the bullet core didn't continue straight on in the direction that it was going. Of course, to be completely fair, I can't say that a Barnes of the same size wouldn't have done exactly the same thing.

Troy

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:






Todd

How did you recover these "failed" bullets? Or did the animal die from the wound(s) of the failed bullets? I will say this though, Two of them darn sure didn't open up.

quote:

If their was nothing wrong with the original TSX, why change it?

If there's nothing wrong with Nosler partitions/ballistic tips/accubonds, why come out with an E-Tip?

Answer:
1. To compete with Barnes
2. Impending lead bullet ban?

Barnes came out with the TTSX to improve an already great product. The first improvement didn't have too much success (MRX).

For hunting situations:
I would MUCH rather have a bullet "pencil" through than explode.

I would MUCH rather have a bullet "pencil" through than lose it's front half.

I would MUCH rather have a bullet "pencil" through than lose over half it's original weight.

I have shot a bunch of critters with the TSX's and will continue to do so, until I find a better mousetrap.

I think the TTSX may be a better a mousetrap, but I will have to use up my remaining supplies of TSX's first.

quote:

Posted by SDhunter:
I would MUCH rather have a bullet "pencil" through than lose it's front half.

I would MUCH rather have a bullet "pencil" through than lose over half it's original weight.

I don't agree with either of these statements at all, either way you look at it going to be a tracking job if the animal isn't killed instantly. Either of these situations you mentioned the bullet has put most of its energy into the animal and probably done more damage than the bullet that penciled through. I'm not a Barnes fan but that is only because I've never tried any. I can tell you this I've never lost an animal to bullet failure and I use a lot of Sierra bullets and have never had one of their so called bullet failures. I've never recovered any bullets I've shot, but then as long as the animal was dead I've never felt the need to look for them because the bullet performed.

The main reason I've never used Barnes bullets is because I felt that they were too expensive. Sierra, Hornady, and Speer have always worked well for me and if I felt I needed a premium bullet I chose the Partition. Again this is mainly due to cost, if I'm going to spend a $1 a bullet for my .270 or .30-06 I'll just go buy factory loaded cartridges. This may change as I've noticed that Barnes isn't terribly more expensive than my Partitions now due to all the price increases. Even though I spend a lot of money every year I still try to save a little where I can. Yes I would trust any of the bullets I use for a trophy of a lifetime type animal as I tend to err on the heavy bullet side when hunting.

Sure Nosler came out with the E-tip to take some of Barnes's share of the market. California banning lead hunting bullets how long before other States follow, better to get a lineup out now then to wait. Nosler is only doing good business by getting involved in the mono-metal bullet market.

As much as I am trying out the TSX this season, I still have 1+ boxes of Partition for each of my hunting calibers. At the rate I am going it will be a few years before I use up the partitions let alone the TSX that I bought this year.

The industry is moving way too fast me.

quote:

Nosler is only doing good business by getting involved in the mono-metal bullet market.

Exactly why Barnes is improving their product.

quote:

I don't agree with either of these statements at all, either way you look at it going to be a tracking job if the animal isn't killed instantly.

I have hunted enough to know that most "instant" kills can be attributed to structural shot placement more than bullet design.

I have also hunted enough to know that most tracking jobs can be attributed to shot placement rather than bullet design.