I attended the Congressional Sportsman Dinner at the Richard Childress Vineyard two weeks ago. Several members of Congress were present as well as people in our industry like Johnny Morris, Shockey, etc. Night started with Bill Rich from the band Big and Rich singing the National Anthem. There were some major players at this event and I personally saw four different well known billionaires. The local airstrip was full of helicopters, gulf streams, and citations. Tables for this event were $8500 and the live auction raised almost $900,000.00. Don Trump JR was present and auctioned a NC Trophy Bear hunt that sold for 100K. Great event and fundraiser to protect hunting and fishing in America.

I am concerned about some of the comments that I heard about the NRA. Three different times during the night I heard people say that the NRA was finished. Normally at these types of events you never hear anything negative about the NRA. These negative comments about the NRA were not a topic during the event but just conversations with various friends and acquaintances.

How many of you think the NRA is finished? People need to understand that these organizations would not exist without the NRA.

I guess you've been living under a rock, and missed all the fallout from the Oliver North vs. Wayne LaPierre .

That makes me laugh!

Ski+3
Whitefish, MT

The NRA is not dead but has taken several wounds. All were caused by LaPierre.

For the NRA to survive, Wayne LaPierre must resign or be removed.

I have given a lot of money to the NRA. As in 6 figures. I get a certain amount of info that most don’t get.

While there are things that give me concern , some of the issues have been drastically misrepresented. A portion of the entire story has been told.


I do not think this has been handled well. Having said that , I doubt they are going anywhere. The question is whether they will be as effective as they have been. My biggest concern is the departure of Chris Cox.

My concern is that we the members and the public do not know the whole story and where the tuth lies in the big picture.
Those in charge have handled it poorly and I believe significantly reduced NRA's significance in the gun ownership fight.

The way it has been left makes me think we were left with less than a fully functioning organization that may or may not need a thorough housecleaning

I agree with that part Larry.

George

Now is a critical time for gun ownership and the NRA. They very clearly need to do some severe housecleaning if they want to stay relevant.

Too many (me included) mistrust what they are currently about mostly because they have moved far from their core values so in the process have lost much of their credibility. The members really need to demand change before it's too late.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have given a lot of money to the NRA. As in 6 figures. I get a certain amount of info that most don’t get.

While there are things that give me concern , some of the issues have been drastically misrepresented. A portion of the entire story has been told.


I do not think this has been handled well. Having said that , I doubt they are going anywhere. The question is whether they will be as effective as they have been. My biggest concern is the departure of Chris Cox.

Chris took his shot a the king Wayne and failed.

If you are going to shoot the king don't miss.

Even since the NRA/Wayne went after Neal Knox

I have not given them extra money.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have given a lot of money to the NRA. As in 6 figures. I get a certain amount of info that most don’t get.

While there are things that give me concern , some of the issues have been drastically misrepresented. A portion of the entire story has been told.


I do not think this has been handled well. Having said that , I doubt they are going anywhere. The question is whether they will be as effective as they have been. My biggest concern is the departure of Chris Cox.

Chris took his shot a the king Wayne and failed.

If you are going to shoot the king don't miss.

Even since the NRA/Wayne went after Neal Knox

I have not given them extra money.

I don’t know if that is true or not. I have seen the text message evidence supposedly proving his involvement. These messages are so bland that it is ridiculous. They prove nothing .

Cougar and PDS:


Explain your accusations a bit better.

George

Wayne LaPierre has an article about the future of the NRA in the most recent American Hunter magazine.

They gonna be just fine
Everyone will go through rough patch and life goes on
NRA is here to stay and it will always be relevant
We simply need them

As a Benefactor Member, I've pulled my estate donation and sent all of the Board Members an email demanding that Wayne be given a vote of NO CONFIDENCE! It's time for him to be gone. I don't want to pay for his private jets on vacation or his Wardrobe. And the Estate was not a small amount.

quote:

Originally posted by Hogbreath:
As a Benefactor Member, I've pulled my estate donation and sent all of the Board Members an email demanding that Wayne be given a vote of NO CONFIDENCE! It's time for him to be gone. I don't want to pay for his private jets on vacation or his Wardrobe. And the Estate was not a small amount.

I don't blame you.

The items mentioned include things for which a partial explanation was given. For example, the private planes are used, in part, because of security. However, the bigger picture that was not disclosed is as follows. WLP's travel schedule is often close to impossible. Multiple events on the same day in different locations. It is virtually impossible for him to make these events flying commercial. These might be speaking events or high dollar fund raisers.

There are others often mentioned for which only a partial explanation was given. The full story would enlighten those readers who question these items at least some of them. Let me give an example. The head of a certain gun manufacturer which has contributed mega-dollars summoned WLP to a private meeting. The meeting happened to be at a very plush, private resort in Europe. What would you do? Yet, this has been reported as WLP living the high life.

The wardrobe expenses do not bother me in the least. While these added up to a fair amount of money, these expenditures were over a long period of time. Something like 15 years. I have forgotten. The reality is that when one of making many public appearances, they need to be dressed well. Hell, I spend more than he does on clothes.

I am extremely bothered by consideration of purchasing WLP a house.

I am extremely bothered by the way this has been handled.

My biggest concern is what I described as no bid contracts to board members.

For example the NRA needs x amount of ammo for an event. A board member charged for the ammo. No questions or outside solicitation. This was reported in the Washington Post. How many times has this happened. That is underpinned with the whole PR billing at will fiasco. To me it speaks of no one minding the pocket book while they call non stop for donations.

I do not buy anything without soliciting multiple bids.

As for going to the gun manufacturer’s event in Europe. If he wanted me there, he would have to pick up the tab instead of using NRA funds. But that does not upset mearounf

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My biggest concern is what I described as no bid contracts to board members.

For example the NRA needs x amount of ammo for an event. A board member charged for the ammo. No questions or outside solicitation. This was reported in the Washington Post. How many times has this happened. That is underpinned with the whole PR billing at will fiasco. To me it speaks of no one minding the pocket book while they call non stop for donations.

I do not buy anything without soliciting multiple bids.

As for going to the gun manufacturer’s event in Europe. If he wanted me there, he would have to pick up the tab instead of using NRA funds. But that does not upset mearounf

If your company had made millions of dollar of donations to an organization, how would you respond if that same recipient told you (the donor) that you would have to pick up the tab for the meeting? It would be the last time I donated if it were me.

Every organization eventually falls to the temptations
Then they fall a bit from the grace and then they hopefully make things better
It’s inherently human trait
Let’s give them credit and hope that with it comes redemption

I don't blame you.

The items mentioned include things for which a partial explanation was given. For example, the private planes are used, in part, because of security. However, the bigger picture that was not disclosed is as follows. WLP's travel schedule is often close to impossible. Multiple events on the same day in different locations. It is virtually impossible for him to make these events flying commercial. These might be speaking events or high dollar fund raisers.

There are others often mentioned for which only a partial explanation was given. The full story would enlighten those readers who question these items at least some of them. Let me give an example. The head of a certain gun manufacturer which has contributed mega-dollars summoned WLP to a private meeting. The meeting happened to be at a very plush, private resort in Europe. What would you do? Yet, this has been reported as WLP living the high life.

The wardrobe expenses do not bother me in the least. While these added up to a fair amount of money, these expenditures were over a long period of time. Something like 15 years. I have forgotten. The reality is that when one of making many public appearances, they need to be dressed well. Hell, I spend more than he does on clothes.

I am extremely bothered by consideration of purchasing WLP a house.

I am extremely bothered by the way this has been handled.[/QUOTE]



If all of this can be explained so easily by LaPierre and the NRA, what haven't they done so?

quote:

Originally posted by boliep:
I don't blame you.

The items mentioned include things for which a partial explanation was given. For example, the private planes are used, in part, because of security. However, the bigger picture that was not disclosed is as follows. WLP's travel schedule is often close to impossible. Multiple events on the same day in different locations. It is virtually impossible for him to make these events flying commercial. These might be speaking events or high dollar fund raisers.

There are others often mentioned for which only a partial explanation was given. The full story would enlighten those readers who question these items at least some of them. Let me give an example. The head of a certain gun manufacturer which has contributed mega-dollars summoned WLP to a private meeting. The meeting happened to be at a very plush, private resort in Europe. What would you do? Yet, this has been reported as WLP living the high life.

The wardrobe expenses do not bother me in the least. While these added up to a fair amount of money, these expenditures were over a long period of time. Something like 15 years. I have forgotten. The reality is that when one of making many public appearances, they need to be dressed well. Hell, I spend more than he does on clothes.

I am extremely bothered by consideration of purchasing WLP a house.

I am extremely bothered by the way this has been handled.

If all of this can be explained so easily by LaPierre and the NRA, what haven't they done so?[/QUOTE]

Like I said, this has been handled badly .

What baffles me about the house purchase is that it was to be in/around Southlake, Texas. Southlake can be considered a very high end area outside the DFW area.

If I recall, the house was upwards of $2.5M. I don’t see how this house would further WLP’s duties to the NRA and members.

I could semi understand a place in or near DC, where most of his work is done. However, I think that has already been provided for.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My biggest concern is what I described as no bid contracts to board members.

For example the NRA needs x amount of ammo for an event. A board member charged for the ammo. No questions or outside solicitation. This was reported in the Washington Post. How many times has this happened. That is underpinned with the whole PR billing at will fiasco. To me it speaks of no one minding the pocket book while they call non stop for donations.

I do not buy anything without soliciting multiple bids.

As for going to the gun manufacturer’s event in Europe. If he wanted me there, he would have to pick up the tab instead of using NRA funds. But that does not upset mearounf

If your company had made millions of dollar of donations to an organization, how would you respond if that same recipient told you (the donor) that you would have to pick up the tab for the meeting? It would be the last time I donated if it were me.

I can follow that line of reasoning. At the same time if the donor wants me there I am the hammer and not the nail. The firearms industry needs the NRA hence the invite.

I am sorry. I would not use NRA funds for such travel. The requesting Gun Company would fit the bill. They pay for folks to go on exotic hunts all the time. Maybe, such stance would force a little financial responsibility across the industry.

I too want a strong NRA. We need a strong NRA. My biggest concern is the allegation of no bid contracts that has never been addressed. I believe WLP has gotten too big. He is not the NRA. I would vote for his ouster. Do you not think it is strange every time someone stands up, questions WLP they are excommunicated from the NRA? I see a pattern. It disturbs me.

I did not know about the house. That alone is enough.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My biggest concern is what I described as no bid contracts to board members.

For example the NRA needs x amount of ammo for an event. A board member charged for the ammo. No questions or outside solicitation. This was reported in the Washington Post. How many times has this happened. That is underpinned with the whole PR billing at will fiasco. To me it speaks of no one minding the pocket book while they call non stop for donations.

I do not buy anything without soliciting multiple bids.

As for going to the gun manufacturer’s event in Europe. If he wanted me there, he would have to pick up the tab instead of using NRA funds. But that does not upset mearounf

If your company had made millions of dollar of donations to an organization, how would you respond if that same recipient told you (the donor) that you would have to pick up the tab for the meeting? It would be the last time I donated if it were me.

I can follow that line of reasoning. At the same time if the donor wants me there I am the hammer and not the nail. The firearms industry needs the NRA hence the invite.

I am sorry. I would not use NRA funds for such travel. The requesting Gun Company would fit the bill. They pay for folks to go on exotic hunts all the time. Maybe, such stance would force a little financial responsibility across the industry.

I too want a strong NRA. We need a strong NRA. My biggest concern is the allegation of no bid contracts that has never been addressed. I believe WLP has gotten too big. He is not the NRA. I would vote for his ouster. Do you not think it is strange every time someone stands up, questions WLP they are excommunicated from the NRA? I see a pattern. It disturbs me.

I did not know about the house. That alone is enough.

There are a lot of things that baffle me at the NRA.

It’s WaPo, but damn:

https://www.washingtonpost.com...6f51640f6_story.html

I've decided that I'm going to join Gun owners of America. I believe that the NRA has become an organization that has lost focus, and exist only to serve itself. Our local club, while affiliated for insurance purposes sees no other support from the NRA. We're too small and remote. I will continue to support the NRA locally through Hunter and Ranger safety classes, But I will not pay dues to National until there are changes in management.

I have donated heavily to the NRA for over 50 years some of those years in excess of this country's median income level. Yet I resent even the thought of buying a home or any amount of excessive perks for the pres. If I want to hold the presidential position of a company I buy my own suits. The NRA jet is fine fro NRA business but not for vacations, expensive vacations I pay for myself. 2019 is the first year I will not donate $.01 to them and until Wayne is axed.
I must say if it were not for the NRA my guns would be buried in the back yard.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
I have donated heavily to the NRA for over 50 years some of those years in excess of this country's median income level. Yet I resent even the thought of buying a home or any amount of excessive perks for the pres. If I want to hold the presidential position of a company I buy my own suits. The NRA jet is fine fro NRA business but not for vacations, expensive vacations I pay for myself. 2019 is the first year I will not donate $.01 to them and until Wayne is axed.
I must say if it were not for the NRA my guns would be buried in the back yard.

I have contributed heavily as well. Some of these things bother me. Some don't.

Part of the problem, aside from the fact that it has been handled poorly (and that is being generous) is that in many cases, only part of the story is being made public. If the entire story is told, it looks a lot different.

Having said that, there are some things that I just can't comprehend. Serious things like the lawyers fees.

Most of us can't comprehend WLP's need for security. I have been told a couple of hair-raising stories from those inside the NRA. I am not sure I can repeat them. All I will say is that they were shocking and show the lengths that some will go to in order to kill WLP.

Those who think the GOA will replace the NRA are kidding themselves. They are not remotely close to big enough to do what the NRA does.

Personally, I think a few things need to be done:

1- Shrink the board down to a manageable level. The current size makes it impossible to be effective.

2- There need to be an outside investigation of the allegations immediately. The results need to be made public.

Why is it that when these organizations get so big, they all seem to mirror each other, regardless of the cause? BODs that are too big and filled with buddies/celebs/big donors, huge leadership perks, and deviation from original purpose?

You could say NRA, SCI, HSUS, Red Cross, and many others can fit into this box, along with many others.

What’s crazy is that a BOD of a Fortune 500 company is rarely larger than 12. Also, Sarbanes/Oxley in 2003 changed the face of BODs in 2003 or so. Think about what happened with Enron and many other companies back then. The Act required corporate governance committees, audit committees, etc. the biggest was also adding criminal liability for egregious acts that tanked many companies and billions of shareholder money.

I don’t know how something similar would ever be done for “non profit” groups, but it’s interesting.

have donated much over the years to various NRA causes

last letter i sent--
essentially stated-- as long as Wayne remains,
my money stays in my pocket

sent GOA and a few other orgs some money-
not that may any longer matter

The hunting show "Under Wild Skies" was sueing the NRA for back pay. That show was doing reruns and filler shows for awhile and has only lately gotten back into new episodes. They are now in Uganda and Tony Makaris has gotten emotionally evolved with the history of and being there in the "Greed Hills of Africa."

I have been critical of the NRA in the past but chose to donate because like it or not their lobbying bloc is effective coupled with my belief that were it not for that bloc most of our gun rights would already be gone. For the immediate future though my checkbook is closed, slim down the BOD is a start another is an open audit. I and many others would like to see exactly what % of a dollar actually goes to fighting for gun rights vs. perks , I can not condone $2000 meals,when no political supporter or big donor is not present...yes we must impress those stuffed shirts who know how the game is played, but when 3 BOD get together for a steak with single malts that comes from their own pocketbook not the donations of members of the NRA's.
My own suits are custom tailored, I'm a big guy the hospital does not pay for them I do why should WLP get these types of perks from a non for profit org?

"Green Hills of Africa."

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
The hunting show "Under Wild Skies" was sueing the NRA for back pay. That show was doing reruns and filler shows for awhile and has only lately gotten back into new episodes. They are now in Uganda and Tony Makaris has gotten emotionally evolved with the history of and being there in the "Greed Hills of Africa."

I never understood the purpose of sponsoring that show.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
Why is it that when these organizations get so big, they all seem to mirror each other, regardless of the cause? BODs that are too big and filled with buddies/celebs/big donors, huge leadership perks, and deviation from original purpose?

You could say NRA, SCI, HSUS, Red Cross, and many others can fit into this box, along with many others.

What’s crazy is that a BOD of a Fortune 500 company is rarely larger than 12. Also, Sarbanes/Oxley in 2003 changed the face of BODs in 2003 or so. Think about what happened with Enron and many other companies back then. The Act required corporate governance committees, audit committees, etc. the biggest was also adding criminal liability for egregious acts that tanked many companies and billions of shareholder money.

I don’t know how something similar would ever be done for “non profit” groups, but it’s interesting.

I often wonder if they can get Directors & Officers Insurance these days.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
The hunting show "Under Wild Skies" was sueing the NRA for back pay. That show was doing reruns and filler shows for awhile and has only lately gotten back into new episodes. They are now in Uganda and Tony Makaris has gotten emotionally evolved with the history of and being there in the "Greed Hills of Africa."

I never understood the purpose of sponsoring that show.

I don't get it either; my dues (I am life member, so I don't pay annual dues anymore) shouldn't pay for Makris's adventures.

Is not Tony Makris not a principal at the PR Firm at the center of a lot of this?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Is not Tony Makris not a principal at the PR Firm at the center of a lot of this?

That was my belief as well.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Is not Tony Makris not a principal at the PR Firm at the center of a lot of this?

My understanding is that he is president of a subsidiary of Ackerman McQueen.

quote:

You could say NRA, SCI, HSUS, Red Cross, and many others can fit into this box, along with many others.

Because they loose direction.

The original purpose of the organization is hijacked by idiots who think they can do better by being involved in things that are totally immaterial to the original cause.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/1...pierre-nra-guns.html


Really interesting article.