I don't know why it's not more popular Joe. I used one for all my hunting for about three years (yes, all, moose, elk, deer, wolves, bears, coyotes). I think it's a great cartridge, accurate, mild recoil, some great bullet choices (including some down range hummers) and economical to reload and shoot. FWIW - Dan
Posts: 5284 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
It's a great little cart. for most NA game. I had one in a little Sako Mannlicher, but sold it. I'm not sure what you mean by "narrower" range of bullets though. With 100, 115, 120, 130, 140, 145, 150, 160 & 175gr bullets, you pretty much cover everything from large varmints to small elk. Recoil is very light even in ultra-light rifles. A good choice for young or female hunters, much better than sending them out w/ a .243 for big game.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
Don't know that its not quite popular. It was originally developed for target shooting and it has quietly gained a great following among hunters as the magnumitis craze has ebbed. If a hunter was going to hunt only deer without elk and the great bears in the mix, a 7-08 would be all he needed. I think it would work for elk also but it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
I will always have at least one in the cabinet. All in all it is just a short 7x57 which basically ruled Africa plains game for 50 years. It will kick a 270's arss in same bbl length and scare a 280 while being more inherantly accurate than both..
quote:Originally posted by dan belisle: Brent, bigger holes, heavier bullets, better down range ballistics. Recoil wise, probably only a couple of pounds more recoil. - Dan
That sounds like a good argument for the 308 over the 708.
Posts: 12596 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: 30 December 2002
I never could understand the big hullabaloo about the 7-08.
It's so close to the 308 there's almost no difference.
Of course it's a fantastic round. So is the 308.
I mean really.... .284 diameter bullets or .308 diameter bullets. 140gr bullets or 150gr bullets. The difference is miniscule. If the gun writers hadn't convinced us several years ago that 7mm was so wonderful everyone would still be yawning at a round so close to a 308 that isn't quite a 308.
They're both great and as close to equal as almost any two other rounds and they're both as close to perfect as you can get for medium game.
I think all the 308 based rounds are underrated with the possible exception of the 243. Its right at home as is, but the others are always thought of as "little cartridges".
But a few of the folks who do not underrate those "little cartridges" are the silloette shooting croud with their 7-08's, the benchrest croud, US military and NATO with their 308's and the North American guides in grizz country with their "little 358's"..
My thinking is that any hunter who can bring his testosterone level down enough to feel suited with a "little 308 based case" will be in very good company.
Posts: 10159 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001
Is it Underrated ???? No I think it is Overrated. It is a good cartridge and a very good concept/design. I mean what more could we want than a 275 in a 6lb short action rifle. Very cool. BUT it is surely not the perfect, most awesome, 1 and only, god divined, wonderful deer rifle. A 140 or so at 2800fps or so kills game of 300lbs or so. Be it a 7mm08, 275, 270, 280, 30'06', 300, 308, 8x57, etc..........
ED
In this case size the 260 is far better.
Posts: 174 | Location: U.S.A | Registered: 15 August 2003
I disagree that it is overated in fact I find a lot of people know nothing about it.I have killed at least one deer w/my 7-08 for the past 16 years all 1 shot kills w/140 partitions.The 260 is a fine round as well but no better than 7-08.This year I killed my deer w/my .280 mainly because I was deer and elk hunting.w/regards
Posts: 610 | Location: MT | Registered: 01 December 2001
Living in the shadow of the time tested and proven .308win, of course it is underrated. Personally, I don't think that there is a better all-around, well balanced cartridge for shooting whitetails. If you want a rifle for just that purpose, the 7mm-08 is hard to beat.
I have used the 7mm-08 to kill numerous antelope, whitetails, mulies and elk. Two weeks ago I got my 5x5 bull at 225 yards with my T/C Encore loaded with Federal factory loaded Nosler Partitions(140 grains) @ 2800 fps. At the shot the bull dropped where he stood, stone dead. Many I know here in Montana shoot the 7mm-08. It's plenty of gun if you are one of us who believe in "shot placement". I put the 7mm-08 in the same company as the 270, 280, and 7x57 as well as the 308. They all will do the job and it's simply a matter of personal preference.
I will say that of all the rifles I have owned none have shot as well as the T/C with a 24" barrel. No need for a trigger job, bedding, etc. Right out off the box this gun will consistently shoot groups that I can cover with a quarter.
Posts: 60 | Location: Montana | Registered: 16 July 2003
I'm partial to the SEVEN's so of course I like the 7mm-08. Bought my wife one of the current CRF M70 Compacts a few years ago. With unremarkable 160 gr Speer bullets she has killed both deer and elk with it. It's the gun I give to anyone who's at all concerned over recoil. Its also been used by several youngsters for their first deer. Overall its performed very well.
I have always felt that most of the "smaller" cartridges have been underrated for years. So many hunters feel that a .300 win mag shooting 165's at 3100 fps makes for a great general purpose deer rifle. It IS....but.......To me its gross overkill, meaning way more than is TRULY needed to get the job done.A .257 Roberts, 7mm-08, .260 Rem , .250 Savage and a few others make much more sense.
My two cents.......... FN in MT
Posts: 950 | Location: Cascade, Montana USA | Registered: 11 June 2000
Sign me up on that PHILOSOPHY roster of yours also.
Will the 30/06 and bigger work, it does negate the fact that so do the lighter cartridge bore sizes also.
I think the 7/08 is not more popular with the so called " experts" on here, is the macho factor. I does not kick all that hard, and therefore is not a ManLy cartridge. Therefore it must not be capable of downing an Elk, or comparable size game animal.
Smaller calibers worked better in yesteryear because basically people were a lot better hunters. they realize putting the bullet in the right place accounted for a lot more than just velocity and A big high powered scope.
I think that the advantage of the 7mm over the .30 is in the balistic coefficient of the bullets used! The 7mm (.284)is more efficient (as far as b/c is concerned) than the .308 of equal weight and design! Hornady spire point bullets are listed below:
As far as cartridges, they are both great! I'd bet money that if you had 2 identical rifles, one a 7mm-08 and the other, a .308 (both unmarked and loaded by someone else)in the hands of the average hunter they couldn't tell the difference! And more importantly I don't think they could tell even after they shot a deer with the rifle!
Posts: 454 | Location: Russell (way upstate), NY - USA | Registered: 11 July 2003
quote: As far as cartridges, they are both great! I'd bet money that if you had 2 identical rifles, one a 7mm-08 and the other, a .308 (both unmarked and loaded by someone else)in the hands of the average hunter they couldn't tell the difference! And more importantly I don't think they could tell even after they shot a deer with the rifle!
Dangerous, but non-the less TRUE>
My 7-08 24in Varmint contour shoots so accurate, it is actually boring...
The 7mm08 isnt underrated. It just doesn't do anything that the 7x57 hasn't done for over 100years. The 7-08 isn't anything but a 7x57 operating at higher pressures to obtain the same goal. You'd be hard pressed to find an animal species in the world,that hasn't been killed with the 7x57.
Posts: 837 | Location: wyoming | Registered: 19 February 2002
It's a great cartridge for women and kids.... Easily beats the .243 in ballistics.... And great on small whitetail under 200 yards.
With less reach than the .25-06 or .270, and less punch than the .308 or .30-06, it's wonderful little bullet for the recoil-shy or beginning shooters.
Posts: 380 | Location: America the Beautiful | Registered: 23 May 2001
"good for women, kids and small whitetails" ROFLMAO!!!! For the last several years that I went to WY, it was the weapon of choice for my grown son and me for antelope and mulies. Best mulie was a 6x5 mulie at 287 long steps by my son. One shot and the buck was as dead as ethics in the Clinton home.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
Some people believe that if it's not hurting you as much as the Elk, it's not big enough.HORSESH**. I learned a long time ago that an animal only dies so dead and beyond that it's tissue destruction and extreme pain to the shooter.JMHO. I know a local here or is that loco that recently bought a 300 RUM to shoot deer that probably average 100# or a little more.And he has lots of company with that type thinking. Better him than me! Stepchild
Posts: 1326 | Location: glennie, mi. USA | Registered: 14 July 2003
There are alot of good comments here. IMHO, the 7mm-08 is better on silhouettes because it is a little bit faster (better trajectory) and comparing it to .308 bullets of the same weight it has a better BC (better in the wind). It is about all the gun I want to settle in and shoot 40-80 rounds with in a match. I find that I relax alot when standing/shooting that I get kicked pretty good. Any more gun than those off the .308 case is too much recoil for the silhouettes. As for caliber anything less than 7mm and knocking down the rams at 500m could start to be an issue. As for big game hunting, the 7mm and .308 offer the most and best choices of bullets and are a toss up for hunting since both are excellent for deer and lesser, but not the first choice for Elk and greater.
Deke.
Posts: 691 | Location: Somewhere in Idaho | Registered: 31 December 2002
The most meaningful comparison between the 7-08 and the 308 is with bullets of equal sectional density and BC. This means the 140 gr 7MM and the 165 gr 308, both of which have an SD of .248 and BCs near .475.
The velocities of these two rounds are quite close, with a slight edge to the 7-08 in long barrels due to the fact that its higher case to bore ratio graduates it to the R19 burn rate - 2950 fps is possible at safe pressures. This is quite close to 270 Win performance with 140 gr bullets, but short of the .277 cal 130 gr bullet at 3100 fps (SD of .242 and BC near .475).
Posts: 1111 | Location: Afton, VA | Registered: 31 May 2003
quote:Originally posted by Sabot: ... The velocities of these two rounds are quite close, with a slight edge to the 7-08 in long barrels due to the fact that its higher case to bore ratio graduates it to the R19 burn rate - 2950 fps is possible at safe pressures. This is quite close to 270 Win performance with 140 gr bullets...
Close, but no cigar. It's one thing to say that the 7mm-08 approaches the .270 Win ballistics, or even that they are for practical purposes close enough. But there is no way the 7mm-08, holding about 8 grains less powder, can equal the .270 Win.
7mm-08 fans love to quote 24" barrel ballistics. No one hunts with those. It's all 18.5", 20" and 22" barrels at most. The standard .270 Win barrel is 22".
Even taking 24" barrels, the 7mm-08 loses the hair-splitting race, by a good margin. The 2950 fps 140 grain bullet of the 7mm-08 is bested by the 3100 fps 140 grain bullet of the .270 Win. I'm comparing 24" barrel in both guns, and maximum safe loads in both guns.
On top of which, the .270 140 grain has a higher BC, therefore will retain more velocity and energy and drop less than the equivalent 7mm 140 grain bullet. It also has a higher sectional density and therefore will penetrate better all things being equal.
Please don't quote me 3000 fps spec "light magnum" 7mm-08 loads. Those are old-time-style pie-in-the-sky ballistic figures which are never achieved in sporters with less than 26" barrels. I'll haul out my 26" Sendero .270 Win and get 3140 fps with a 140 grain light magnum load.
The 7mm-08 is very good round within its element. But it is not as long-range as the .270 Win, nor does it have the bullet weight possible at good velocity of the .308 Win for larger animals. Add the fact that most 7mm-08s are 18.5" - 20" Remington Model Sevens, and you have the makings of a very fine....
Good points brought out here! The original question was "Is the 7mm-08 underrated?" The answer is NO, it's just that some people don't know much about it! It always ends up like a kid saying "my dad can beat up your dad"! As far as small "eastern deer", Bull crap! The 7mm-08 will do anything the 270 Win. will do except do the High Speed thing! For normal hunting, "ALL" of this class of cartridges will do just about the same! Think about it, you can only kill a deer just "so dead"!
Posts: 454 | Location: Russell (way upstate), NY - USA | Registered: 11 July 2003
I had a 270 I got a 7-08 Why? For all the ballistics and BS a 7-08 is about 90% a 270 in terms of energy and distance. I wanted a short action caliber for a lighter carry rifle, which meant I tried to keep the level of recoil about the same as the 270. I also wanted a clip that my 700 ADL didn't have. The 7-08 is still a relatively a newcomer with only 20 years under its belt compare to a hundred for the 06 case, I think its simply a case of no PR, it is what it is, a nice accurate lower recoil caliber that has a place in the world of calibers.
[ 12-03-2003, 19:51: Message edited by: Desy ]
Posts: 140 | Location: Saskatoon | Registered: 21 October 2002
On this forum I could make a statement like, "in my opinion, the 7-08 is perfect for eastern whitetail and doubles nicely as a varmint rifle" and not get much arguement as most here know it is adaquate and that my opinion is personal preference based on experience.
It is amongst the more casual hunters and shooters that it is underrated. Many have never heard of it and those who have, have the phrase "good for women and children" etched into there brain with little knowledge of any other facts about the cartrige.
It's also tremendously underserved by the ammunition makers - 120 and 140gr only. It's a pity that it's taken the place of 7x57 for which 120-175gr is available.
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001
Desy - "I wanted a short action caliber for a lighter carry rifle, which meant I tried to keep the level of recoil about the same as the 270."
I agree with that line of thought, in that, many have been attracted to this round for the "package" it provides. Light, short actioned and excellent ballistic capability. Fine round.
the 7-08 is probably the best light short action gun going.the 7mm bullet selection is also outstanding(opinion).that was my next gun ,BUT,my old a3-03 springfield groups opened up to 6 inches.custom rifle here i come.i sent it to hill country rifles for a 7x57 ackley barrel,(24 in).the old gun came to life(after a new timney trigger),55.5 gr of imr 4350 will push a 139 gr.btsp hornady bullet 3150fps; 53 gr h4350 & 154gr hornady sst gets 3025fps.but the load that gets this round into mag territory w/o the recoil is 175 gr winchester,a case full of h4831 get 2850fps.having said all that,i recomend the 7-08(unless you want to go wildcatting).
I too have to agree with RMK. Old as it is I'll take the 7 X 57 anytime. If you want a modern 7mm cartridge, why not the .284 Winchester? It'll do everything the 7mm-08 will do only faster, farther and with greater accuracy.
Posts: 614 | Location: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: 02 March 2001
quote:Originally posted by heavy varmint: Many have never heard of it and those who have, have the phrase "good for women and children" etched into there brain with little knowledge of any other facts about the cartrige.
You shoot smokeless rounds there in West Virgina??
Posts: 380 | Location: America the Beautiful | Registered: 23 May 2001
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