I have lived and hunted quail in Tx and OK for 50 years — from the hay days to extinction in some areas.

Things I can verify in north Texas and Oklahoma

1) major increase in fur-bearing predators
2) wild hog went from non-existence to prevalent
3) fire-ants went from non-existence to prevalent
4) tall-grass prairie is in decline to improved grasses
5) small farms are becoming extinct as well
6) quail have declined at the same rate in non-changed habitat as changed habitat.

Sorry Bill.

Bill- Have you considered searching with a lease broker? Think there are several who specialize in putting these together.

Crane, I am not that serious yet.
Lane, it breaks my heart to hear how the Texas quail have nearly vanished. I'd swap 1,000 of these damned mourning, whitewing and European collared doves for one quail -- just to look at.

The quail population goes up and down like a roller coaster.
Many reasons.
1) Eye parasite where they loose their vision and fly into stuff.
2) Biggest issue in some areas such as east Texas is coastal bermuda. It is like a wall and they cannot run. Easy pickings for all predators and especially raptors.
3) Not sure I buy the fire ant thing. Maybe in the wet areas but they are a tropical ant. They do not do well in hot dry areas.Texas summers.
They survive on the moisture in cow patties where there are heavy livestock populations.
A lots of quail in south Texas where coastal bermuda is limited and dry climate.

Lane: you might be able to expand on the eye parasite issue. Seemed a hot topic a decade ago but know they are saying the quail have developed some immunity.


The quail in east Texas have been very minimal as long as I can remember and i am 65 yrs old.
Seldom ever see them any more. Few coveys 50 yrs ago.

Hunted deer in Mexico for 3 years. Overrun with quail...
I really think dense crop land and coastal bermuda is the largest culprit.

CRP land might help recovery

EZ

In western OK where there is little habitat change, almost no bermuda, and lots of CRP…there are almost no Bobwhites left. Up until the mid 1990’s…even a bad year there was a good year.

There are fireants all over North Texas and Oklahoma now and they seem to have evolved to handle heat and drought now. My cow pastures are full of them…all the way up to at least the Arbuckles.

Agreed bermuda is not optimal for quail.

I am not sure we even have an inkling of an idea on decline. No one is even sure now whether eyeworms are even involved although I am certain they don’t help.

Maybe a perfect storm of all the above.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:

3) Not sure I buy the fire ant thing. Maybe in the wet areas but they are a tropical ant. They do not do well in hot dry areas.Texas summers.
They survive on the moisture in cow patties where there are heavy livestock populations.


EZ

Not sure where you got that info but the damn things are all over my land and are a constant battle. I live just west of Ft. Worth where it's extremely hot and dry in the summers.

All these jokes about Texans reminds me of back in the day when my parents lived there (my dad still does but my mom passed away) and I would return home for xmas break during college. My siblings and I detested Texans for "invading" our state as well as being a danger on the ski slopes (you Texans may like to ski but most of you are not very good).

Flash forward to today. Arizona is being invaded by Californians. I see Texas plated trucks constantly in CO but my attitude now is, bring 'em on - every Texan displaces the vote of a liberal CO transplant from somewhere else.

AZ, I must confess that the ubiquitous black-on-white license plates are not always welcomed with open arms here in my part of NM, but your point is very well taken.
Give me 1,000 Texans over one Kali lib; their politics and values could not be more obnoxious to liberty. They have ruined Oregon.

AZ, I have encountered some incredibly rude people in CO. The interesting part is that everything is fine right up until they realize I'm from Texas.

Most people there are fine, but the prejudice is strong there with a few of them.

I worked with a girl in the 90's who would drive around Texas rather than pass through it. Her and her friends would go hundreds of miles out of their way to go from NM to New Orleans.

She was the first vegan I ever met. I took great joy in pointing out that her favorite food (cheese pizza) was made off the backs of enslaved cattle. She was CRUSHED!

30 years ago, and I still love that story.

My wife and I have moved 20 times in our married life. We made the worst move of our life going to Denver 3 years ago. A miserable, terrible excuse for a city. With the liberal crap, the Californians, the homeless and the dope - we moved out on our own - to Texas.

We have lived in Houston, New Braunfels, Midland, Dallas, Odessa, Lubbock and Hobbs (yes, I know it is in NM but it is 5 miles from the border) and now in Ft. Worth.

Friendly people, free lifestyle, Southwest Airlines was not enforcing the mask policy - all reasons to like Texas. And, we ship illegals to DC.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
AZ, I have encountered some incredibly rude people in CO. The interesting part is that everything is fine right up until they realize I'm from Texas.

Most people there are fine, but the prejudice is strong there with a few of them.

I worked with a girl in the 90's who would drive around Texas rather than pass through it. Her and her friends would go hundreds of miles out of their way to go from NM to New Orleans.

She was the first vegan I ever met. I took great joy in pointing out that her favorite food (cheese pizza) was made off the backs of enslaved cattle. She was CRUSHED!

30 years ago, and I still love that story.

Well Wendell, I am not surprised. I ran into two guys bowhunting near my house; one was from OK, the other from TX. I told them where I thought the elk might be and told them to call if they wanted access through our property. I recently texted the guy in OK and he said they didn't get an elk.

AZ, thanks for giving those guys advice and offering access.

TX land in the Hill Country (best hunting IMHO for variety in NA at a reasonable price) has come to an end with rocketing prices in the last 2 years (2-4x increases) and the selling/sub-dividing of large ranches. We lost our 5,300 acres lease of 17 years this year. Half sold, the other other being used by the owners. In 17 years we took WT, hogs, turkey, axis, fallow, black buck, aoudad, elk, red deer, sika, and Corsican. All low fence. My friends and I have been looking for a ranch to buy, but figure its better just to get a small piece of land with great views and the ability to take a few deer a year - and spend the rest of the time either on guided hunts in TX on private land or traveling elsewhere.

Pics https://goo.gl/photos/TxSFQbLHkSUVxSbs5

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
TX land in the Hill Country (best hunting IMHO for variety in NA at a reasonable price) has come to an end with rocketing prices in the last 2 years (2-4x increases)

Yeah, it's hard to beat the possibilities of a good Hill Country property. You never know what might step out.

It's hard to justify buying land for hunting at these current rates. If you can afford it as an investment, go for it. Historically, it has proven successful. Otherwise, spend your money buying guided hunts. Even leases have gotten ridiculous.

Think about the interest, or opportunity cost of $1 million, or half that even. You could do a decent amount of hunting off the interest of that money.

Austin Hunter, I am very sorry to hear that you lost your lease. I believe in an earlier post about a fine Axis buck harvest, you mentioned it was near Junction. You sort of set the model for me.
Really am sorry about this.

Born and raised on Texas ranches, ranched in Texas and guided in Texas, I still have friends and relitives in Texas and in the hunting business as all ranchers are...

Its commercialized and part of ranching business to help make a living.

unless you were raised there and had "connections" you will be sorely disapointed, guided hunts and leased hunting land is out of sight and all but impossible to find, its all taken if its any good at all..the state has two or three draw hunts Im only familair with black gap, and the one at Van Horn, all but impossible to draw..Im refering to big game, quail etc can be had if you know the areas such as on railroad property and on some areas unkown to most of us but known to locals in every town..

All in all, if you werent born and raised there, your better off in New Mexico or the pacific NW, perhaps Arizona might work for you..

Another option in Texas is get a ranch job and have them inclued one or two deer each season!!

Not a pretty picture unless you are very wealthy and can afford the high dollar hunts, Mule deer, Cooues deer are at $3000 and up...Whitetail leases are out of sight,
day leases for the most part are the least desirable and most success is poor..I understand they have started charging for feral hog hunts and Javalina..The hunting in Texas is great, and its not all fenced as some will tell you, but its expensive..

Since Texas is such a big state, I pretty well limit my experience to South Texas, the Hill country. and mostly El Paso to Del Rio, but my sister ranched for many years close to Dallas and the situation there was not good IMO..The hunting wasn't great unless you like shooting feral hogs getting et by fire ants!!

Ray, bless your heart, I greatly appreciate your input, as always. I am not dirt poor, but the next level up, and hope I can scratch together a doe cull hunt of some species, and a feral hog hunt every year or two, as I am a meat hunter; just want something in the freezer. I don't give a rat's ass about antlers or horns, so that might help a scoche. I know I will be considered an outsider for at least a while, even though I have dead ancestors buried all over Texas and my daughter went to Baylor on a reining scholarship. At 69 and with four lumber fusions, I would never make a ranch hand, not to mention I ride a horse "real funny."

I have been looking at leases in San Angelo and farther west. Not much quality for less than $5000.

The leases near here in El Paso need to be huge to get anything on them, and you have to babysit them and worry about the damn border cartels.

Even that big place I hunted in 2020 had problems with the cartels. Not while I was there, but that was what they had said.

If you pay you can get a quality place. But I think there are a lot of places that aren't worth the high price. Caveat emptor is a real thing.

In South and South West Texas these days…taking the cartel movement into consideration is a healthy thing to do. It IS a problem.

quote:

In South and South West Texas these days…taking the cartel movement into consideration is a healthy thing to do. It IS a problem.

It might be a problem within 20 or so miles of the border. But further inland there is not much activity. We have seen absolutely none at my South Texas ranch.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

In South and South West Texas these days…taking the cartel movement into consideration is a healthy thing to do. It IS a problem.

It might be a problem within 20 or so miles of the border. But further inland there is not much activity. We have seen absolutely none at my South Texas ranch.

Wish I could say the same…but can’t.

Well many high ranking cartel bosses live in Laredo EL Paso, Del Rio, Brownsville, McAllen, and hells a coming and many don't know..Ive been amongst them for years, know them personally, and never in our history have we had such people too deal with..there are lots of documented incidents but most folks have never been there, and live in a It can't happen to me mind set.. would live North of Interstate 10 at least... Between Covid and Cartel, south Texas is undesirable.

Since Biden has been been POTUS…it is unbelievable how south Texas has been impacted.