Please explain me something about these great animals.

While I am loosing my time like a lizard under the sun I bought a DVD about hunting elk with bows.

The question is: how often does an average hunter kills a really good one during his life ?

I was surprised that every hunter in the DVD bagged GREAT bulls in the same day, is that normal ? I also was amazed how much "tamed" they were compared with the red stags from the argentinian pampa....

Does an average hunter baggs a 400+ elk often ??
What is the normal size hunted by normal hunters?

Thanks
Lorenzo

I may not be a professional hunter, but I have been hunting for just about all of my life and in recent years started chasing elk.

Bow season is generally during the rut with some states offering rifle tags during the rut. Thus bulls are likely all sorts of horny (for lack of a better word) and only one thing is on their mind. Hunters take advantage of this especially with calls and scents. This could make them seem tame compared to a stag.

Those on TV are likely, not always, but likely hunting with an outfitter that has secured some of the better hunting country or on a "trophy" unit with high amounts of large bulls with lower hunting pressure or on a private land lease where they have exclusive hunting rights.

A 400 class elk is not the norm and is, to many, a once-in-a-lifetime bull. They can be had by average hunter that does his homework and puts in his time. I have never seen one while hunting and given the trends of hunting, likely never will.

Not being a professional I would say the high 200's to low 300's is average for the areas I have hunted (those who know can correct me because I have been wrong before). Sizes of elk will vary greatly from one region to another.

A lot depends on where you hunt. If you hunt in Colorado , for instance, you will see a lot of elk and if lucky, you may get a shot at a 300 plus bull. If you are lucky enough to draw Arizona, then the story changes . I've been lucky enough to be drawn 3 times in the last 25 years. My first bull was a high 330 class bull.My second bull was a 250 class since I chose a young one for better eating. My last hunt there (2005) was an archery hunt in the rut. The first bull we found was a good 360 class bull. The next bull we chased and I shot at 2 different times was a 370-380 class bull. I broke my foot in pursuit of him by slipping on a rock slide. The last morning, we called in 3 bulls all together. One of them was a 400 class bull! Unfortunately, he saw us before I could make a move on him and ended up shooting a far lesser bull simply because I couldn't walk any more. Beggars can't be choosers !!!

Almost every unit in Arizona holds a 400 class bull. The unit I hunt in is not one of the so called trophy units, and that's why I apply for it, better chance of getting drawn. I just hope to get drawn for one more archery hunt while I can still do it. I'm 61 now and have some disabilities and pray for one more elk tag, maybe for that magic 400 bull !!!

Some of the video you watched may have been on game farms or even if in the wild, stagged as many are. Remember videos are made to make money, and success is important no matter the cost.

I have only killed two bulls with a bow here in Wyoming, but hunted less than three weeks all the times I tried for an elk with a bow. I just don't have the time to bow hunt and rifle hunt, plus I hunt with a recurve. In Wyoming you can use a crossbow also. I also only hunt limited quota/draw areas for elk. I don't draw every year.
If you get a chance just be patient, and wild elk are far from tame. The rut/breeding season makes it appear that way. As does the stagged video footage.

I would say average bulls killed here are less than 300 inches. A 400 inch bull is pretty rare, but more common these days than 10 years ago. It takes a lot of elk to make a 400 inch bull.

Thanks gentlemen for your answers.
I would love to hunt one of those 400 ar least once in my life !!!

Thanks again
L

quote:

Some of the video you watched may have been on game farms or even if in the wild, stagged as many are. Remember videos are made to make money, and success is important no matter the cost.

Amen. Most hunting videos are less than representative of typical hunting.

You can find hunter success ratios on the websites of many game departments. It ranges from less than 10% in some pubic access areas to 100% in high-fenced private hunting preserves.

If you book an expensive private land hunt during the rut, you have an excellent chance of taking a trophy bull with a bow. If you go do-it-yourself on public land, your chances diminsh greatly. It is a similar story with rifle. Most rifle seasons are after the rut, so you are hunting a bull that is typically not with the cows and is usually holed up in dark timber recovering from the rigors of the rut. Private land with controlled access is almost always the most productive, but not always the best sport (depending on how it is managed.)

If the elk seemed Tame then they were probably taken on a game ranch, much like hunting a cow in the pasture.

As for hunting a wild 400 inch bull you only have the option (besides waiting your whole life and maybe never drawing) of purchasing a special tag in either New Mexico or Utah. Buying a $30,000+ tag in Utah and paying $20,000 for a guide. $50,000 invested and you may still never see a 400 inch bull.

I'd guess most guys never have the chance to shoot a 300 inch bull with any weapon.

I think that if a guy is a dedicated elk hunter, he might take one or two in the 320-340 range in his life. That is on public and playing the draw.

Thanks, so at the end they are nearly the same that the red stags...

50,000 bucks for a 400plus elk ?? woww

How does a 400plus look like ?

L

I guess we have to decide if you’re looking for a net or gross score of 400â€. Bulls that gross score over 400†will out number the bulls that net score over 400 probably 5 to 1 or more, all are magnificent animals, but the net score is what matters when the points are tallied. For an elk to make an official net score of 400" B&C or more... we're talking a freak of nature to begin with, and the odds of actually killing such an animal is slim to none unless you can 'buy' it so to speak. The only people who would tell you different are Utards, then again, most of them will never get to hunt the elk in their own state anyway. UT does produce a handful of 400†elk every year, but they’re hardly behind every bush. They also hunt them in the rut with a rifle.

I’m more familiar with Montana, and it has been the cornerstone for elk for well over a century, many of the elk across the entire US were transplanted from herds in Montana…

I believe there are roughly 25,000 elk killed in Montana every year. The State record book lists 6 elk that score more than 400" and the records go back about a 100 years. There are only 19 that score more than 390†Granted not every elk killed is entered into the record book, but big ones like we’re talking about usually end up there, even if only half are entered, you get the picture.

I would like to know the actual number of 400 (net score) bulls that have been killed and recorded in B&C. Does anyone have the latest book handy? I'll bet its around 50-60 total for all states combined. In recent years Utah has been producing 3-4 or so NET 400" bulls a year, and a few other states put out 2-3 a year as well. I’m taking a wild azz guess here, but I’ll bet there are fewer than a dozen 400â€+ bulls killed per year, and I’ll bet there is around 80-90,000 elk killed.

Personally I think the 400†number gets thrown around like that’s a bench mark or something of being a big bull. I’d bet 99 out of a 100 hunters would shoot a 360-370 class bull if given the chance. That 1 that wouldn’t is probably from Utah.

quote:

I’d bet 99 out of a 100 hunters would shoot a 360-370 class bull if given the chance.

Ivan, you can safley bet your azz that I would.

If I could line up a hunt with a reasonable chance that I kill see something like that without having to mortgage the house and take my kids future college funds I would head out know!

These numbers are so unrealistic. Just because every hunting magazine shows 400 in bulls and 220 in mule deer in every episode, doesn't mean it's reality! These are a few animals killed among hundreds of thousands of hunters! Your average elk hunter couldn't tell the difference between a 320 and a 370 bull anyway!

I agree with the previous posts (even the comment on Utards). To produce 20+, 400inch bulls every year, Utah leaves a ton of opportunity on the table. Many 320 bulls never have the cross hairs put behind their shoulder in their 15 years on this earth.

Lorenzo, if you want to see what 400 class elk look like, go to mossback.com. There are some photos on there of what $50,000-150,000 will buy you.

Thanks MC

I got the picture...anything over 300 is a monster !!!

L

Here's something to look at Lorenzo --> Boone and Crocket

Ken....

I have killed a few elk in my time most fall in the 280 to 320 class did find a 383 that had been dead for weeks enought to gag a maggot, I have never seen a bull in range or while hunting that would go over 350, but have seen 3 bulls together that would go over 400 on the San Carlos Indian Res.

Hope that tells you there are not a lot of 400 class bulls.

Most (at least a lot) of the guides work as cowboys and shepards all summer and stay in touch with the elk. And, of course, have patterned their movements over years of experience. And too, hunting rights and ACCESS is worth big bucks to the ranchers. Big free range elk are dogged all summer and auctioned off just like pen raised ones.
Time plays a part in it also. If you're a local and can pass up shots on inferior bulls or if you're a out of stater that has a limited amount of time and can be less selective. You may be a purist and set your goals at a certain level but few folks are gonna drive 1000+ miles one way and watch legal animals walk away. Especially as time grows short.
I hunted elk in the Big Horns of WY for 15yrs. DIY on public land. I killed 12 elk of which 7 were bulls. The biggest was a 5x5 which one of the locals referred to as a "nice rag horn". I'll admit he didn't look anything like the pictures you see in the mags but he looked pretty damned good to me. And by the time I got him off the mountain, I estimated his weight at right around 2500#'s.

I can sure sympathize with you. I packed out a moose a couple of years ago and I swore that I would never....ever complain about an elk on my back again!

quote:

I can sure sympathize with you. I packed out a moose a couple of years ago and I swore that I would never....ever complain about an elk on my back again!

Myself and 2 friends did a DIY in Alaska 1970 we were all 21 years old then and strong we had 3 moose tags filled 2 and took 3 days to rest from the pack and carry out never ever thought about filling the 3rd one and there where lots of moose around.

Too many people get hung up on the size of the trophy. Any elk taken on a fair chase hunt is a good one. A huge bull, killed in an enclosed area, is just the slaughter of a domestic animal
Grizz

Actually, I was using one of those 6' plastic toboggins and made it in 3 trips. I was very circumspect on approaching the kill site when I returned each time because of you know who and on the last one, I made my wife go with me. She doesn't hunt but likes to camp and it was gonna be close to dark when I came off the mountain. She was operating the flashlight and we were both singing so griz would know we weren't just another link in the food chain.

Over the years I've killed quite a few elk and below is a picture of my best (Fall 2004) he scores 355. The area I drew that tag in was 8 preference points and it takes substantially more points nowadays.
In Colorado as with a lot of other states your odds of running into a big bull in a general season or an easily drawn season is really very slim to none. Bulls like this are hard to come by and they don't even exist in much of the hunted portions of the west. Large bulls are usually found in extremely limited areas that take lots of points to draw a tag or on private ranches that cost plenty to hunt.
Hope you like the picture, this will likely be the largest bull I will ever kill as I don't have the patience to draw another tag like that. My brother has 16 elk points this year and is about at the end of his rope and willing to cash them all in just to get a decent hunt.

That's a wonderful bull !!!
Congrats and thanks for the picture

L

A BIG + 1 on what Grizzly Adams said!

Lorenzo... while a 300" bull isn't a monster to some, I'll bet its bigger than 90% of elk hunters have ever shot, much less seen, its a very respectable bull and I'd be shooting at it no doubt about it. I think I've killed nearly 2 dozen elk, mostly bulls, and have come close to the 300" mark 2 times. I've missed a few elk both with rifle and bow that were bigger... There are bulls around, but 400"ers are a dream.

I drew a pretty good tag this year and I know there are bulls in the area I'll be hunting that will push the 350+ mark... I have 9 days to hunt and the first nice 6pt (300" range)I see is getting shot, or at least shot at.

The big ones are hard to find.