Well i know some of you all have really cussed out remingtons quality control in past posts. As is i do not own a remington, but have been on the verge of buying one recently. I have really been wanting a short mag, and remington SenderoSF, 673 and Seven AWR from the Custom shop all look enticing.

Is everything from remington junk? Anybody have one of these that they have used to hunt with? Good or bad results? Wondering if the AWR that comes from the custom shop is also junk?

I have a winchester 70 featherweight that i have been fighting with. Thought on the next gun i should try something different, like a remington. My other alternative is a 70 featherweight in 270 WSM. Any opinions or experiences with this gun?

Thanks guys...
i will shut up now!

[ 06-01-2003, 19:37: Message edited by: sharps-shooter ]

i have posted this new topic...because i have definately given up on the 30-378 WBY idea. Too many "complaints" about that caliber. I think a short mag would do me more good!

Now, i will shut up!

I've stated this point a number of times before, but the current Remington 700 isn't nearly as good a rifle as it was in the late 1980s and earlier. The current bolt sleeve lock nuisance-gimmick is enough to keep me away in and of itself. Just so you know, I bought my first Model 700 (I still have it) with summer hay money at age fifteen thirty years ago, and I've owned scores of them in the years since.

The truth is, Remington sold so many Model 700s during the twenty-five or so years of that model's heyday, that it's easy to find an older 700 in excellent to mint or even new condition at a price sunstantially lower than the current version goes for at retail. All you have to do is look for them at gunshows and used gun racks at legitimate gunstores. Walmart and other discount houses are not going to be of any help in this case, and I'm thankful for that......

Older 700s that are particlarly great guns in my experience: The Custom Shop "C" Grade (any and all), 1980s-era KS Mountain Rifle, The "RS" (Rynite Stock) version (those rifles were astounding shooters out of the box, especially in .280 Remington), the BDL Varmint rifle, and the FS (fiberglass stock) version. Of course, you can buy an older ADL or BDL that will drive tacks as well, but many require some tuning. The most accurate 700s I ever owned shot like a house 'o fire right out of the box.

I had a Varmint in .222 Rem. that was a one-hole rifle; a BDL 7mm Remington Magnum that produced 3/4" or small five-shot groups with regularity (it was FAST, too for some reason); and an RS barreled-action in .30-06 that I dropped into a nice walnut "Classic" stock with no bedding or modification other than a Shilen trigger. The best two back-to-back five-shot groups I ever fired at 100 yds. with that rifle measured in the .400" range with a "only" a 4X Leupold scope for sighting equipment. I still have the targets to prove it.......

AD

[ 06-01-2003, 20:58: Message edited by: allen day ]

I think recent claims about poor quality are greatly exagerated.The reduction in workmanship appears to be mostly cosmetic with less care taken in the guns finishes.I have fired several newer 700's and accuracy has remained very good.The only complaint that I have with them is the new locking bolt and the new firing pin spring.I use 700 actions for building my customs but the locking bolts and new springs are thrown in the garbage where they belong.I replace the firing pin assembly with the older style which are still available.Quality control has declined in recent years from most manufacturers but I don't believe remington to be any worse than others.

The truth is never an exaggeration.........

AD

I have Three 700 KS custom shop guns and each one of them I had to take to the gun smith and have them worked on so they would function properly.
Gun # 1
300 WBY MAG. Bolt would hang up, not smooth. Did not shoot good at all. Come to find out it had a broken recoil lug. It was broke right at the top. The bolt housing was full of metal shavings, the stock was not bedded right.
Gun # 2
338 Rum. Bolt hang up, had to file the rear part so it would work ok. re-bed the stock.
Gun # 3
280 Rem. Bolt would not close, barrel to action not square , stock needed to be re-worked.

Will that is 3 for 3 I dont think I will buy any more new Remingtons.

If you would like a nice gun get an action and have one made.
hammerdown

Ok...i get the point that remingtons pretty much stink...what about winchesters custom shop? Any experiences with them?

There is also a winchester 70 custom sharpshooter in 300 winchester at my local gun store. this isnt the heavy barreled one, its the hunting version. Anything good or bad to say about that?

The general conclusion i am arriving at is to build a gun. Using an action, either remington, winchester or whatever, and building from the ground up with a new stock and barrel.

Thanks for the info guys.

My S/S Classic Winchester in 300WSM would make a Winchester Purist puke,as far as metalwork. It really is a ridiculous joke in that department.

However,I'm of the fraternity that weighs function over looks,despite that putting me in the minority. Though I disfavor Winchesters as a rule,this particular rifle shoots better than most Winny's I have owned and that suits me just fine.

I've had far more Remingtons,than rifles of any other make and have yet to have one that did not make me happy(and shoot circles around every Winchester I have owned,including the aforementioned Whizzum). Further,when spending loot to suit my personal tastes,the Remington is my action of choice,be it a 721,700,600,Model Seven,XP-100,I've built happily on all of 'em.

I don't expect anybody else to know what the hell truly suits me and I wanna take those reigns. So my favorite tools weren't purchased off a shelf,they were assembled to my whim.

That is how you find true happiness...............

I dont see what all of you are bitchin about!?!?! I bought a M700 BDL SS in .300 RUM And Im getting .7" groups out of the box. . Good Shootin!

I was just putting up the facts.
I have had my guns worked on, and they shoot now, 1/2-3/4" groups.
Iam happy your 300 shoots good with out having extra work done to it.
good luck
hammerdown

No problems with mine. And I own and have owned a bunch. Out of the box trigger is horrible but easily adjusted. Triggers work, safeties work, hole goes all the way thru and it hits what its pointed at. Some folks can't get past the J lock but if it absolutely crushes your sense of esthetics, there are several smiths that can remove it.

Hammerdown-I have owned many 700's and fired a great deal more and have yet to encounter one problem of the nature you have described.For you to have encountered three you must be the unluckiest man alive.

I've owned at least a dozen Model 700's over the years, and I've never had any problems with any of them. Most of them shot great right out of the box, too.
I've handled a number of the newer 700's and shot a few and most of them shot great. A few models still have a reputation of being fine rifles- the Varmint series, the Sendero's, the PSS models, and the VLS laminated stock rifles. Most of the Model 7's are also reputed to be very nice rifles.
I also believe that the claims of Remington rifles being junk are greatly exaggerated. No doubt there have been plenty of horror stories to go around, but any manufacturer with millions of there wares in the hands of customers are bound to have a few problems in the bunch.
Also, keep in mind, this group as a whole has much higher expectations and demands than the shooting public as a whole. Most shooters wouldn't even recognize some of the problems that we would probably raise holy hell about.

As for an action to build a custom on- take your pick. With a good gunsmith just about any good action- including Rem. 700- will make a very nice custom. My favorite for custom rifles is a clean Pre 64 model 70 action- pre war or transition if I can find one.- Sheister

I have no complaints about the 700BDL in 375HH I bought used. IT is an older custom shop job so the quality may be better than the average NIB. It shoots fine. However, I ordered a Gentry 3 position safety and a Timney trigger for it. Both of them came in yesterday by the way. Although I have never had a problem personally I dont want to take a chance. I wont shoot a gun if there is even a remote chance of a safety issue. My other Remingtons will either get sold or traded or will in turn get the same treatment.

[ 06-02-2003, 05:07: Message edited by: Mike Smith ]

I have a safe full of Rem,ruger,marlin,savage and now own a browing in 270 wsm,shot a group with it the other day that was less than an inch at 200 yds,less than 2 inches at 300 yds,its out of the box but I did adjust the triger on it.with the rems I get very good accuracy and all of them are out of the box with a little triger adjusting.
Even my rem shotgun has the J-lock but I don't see a problem.

My two Model 700's purchased last year, and this year are excellent rifles. If you dont like it, I suspect maybe you just are a no shooting, or a winny fan. You get the point. Remingtons are just fine thankyou.

Orion, this is a FORUM, so I can't make everybody happy with what I have to say, including you, but I will stand behind my comments.

AD

I've owned dozens of Remington rifles over the past 50 years and the new ones are not what they were when DuPont was the boss. Are they OK? Probably but get a used one from the 80"s if you can find one -better yet from the 70"s.

The reality is for the American rifles, probably none of them are what they were years ago. I actually really was a Model 70 fan, and years ago, decided I no longer liked them. Would I own another Win, yes. The problem is, we look for custom gun workmanship in a production rifle, and it isnt quite there. For every production rifle made, you can generate a list of Must have, or nice to have improvements.

I don't have problems with mine either. I have 10 700's. They all shoot well, some very well. The only rifles I've had problems with have been a couple of A-Bolts.

Bob257

I have also owned about a dozen rem 700 new and old and I have never had a problem with any of mine.I won't buy anything but Remington.

Sharps, Your going to get lemons with just about everybody, If you want a Remington, get it, just look it over good, make sure everything works right, look down the outside of the barrel to make sure it's not warped, had that happen to me with a VSSF in 22-250, they gave me a new rifle. Look at the crown to make sure it doesn't have any nicks or dings. My favorite rifle is a 700 S/S in 708Rem. Replaced the cheap plastic stock with a HS Precision sporter stock, I can't see how a custom shop could make it any better for what I got into the rifle, shoots under 1/2 moa with ease, and it handles great. If you don't go with a Rem. or Win. you won't be disappointed in a Sako or Tikka S/S models.Jay.

sharps-shooter,

No!!! The Remington rifles are damn good rifles. Although I dislike the new J-lock, if Iwere going to buy a new rifle today, It would be a Remington M-700 BDL.

Sharps-shooter,

i dont have any experience with new remington rifles but i bought a 3 1/2 in. express supermag shotun a year ago and it was the biggest piece of junk ive ever touched. The rib was crooked and it wouldnt eject or feed worth a darn. I searched some duck forums and found that many were having the same problems with their expresses. I returned it and picked up a benelli and didn't look back.

With so many used remingtons around that is what i'd go for instead of a new one, infact thats what i have done for my last two rifles.

Brett

I rank remington right up there with barnes bullets. If they were really as bad as everyone makes them out to be,the poor bastards would have went out of business long ago. With remington,there is no reason to buy new and have to buy a locked rifle. With all the years of production there are millions of M700's in production. Remingtons biggest problem right now,is one which most corporations are facing. Economic problems in the form of production costs. With the current trend in big stores like walmart,these stores buy direct from the manufacturer. With walmart,they want corners cut in production so they make more profit in sales,this stretches into other markets like electronics,motor oil,you name it.

Another factor with remington,is you need to seperate those who pimp out CRF rifles as being the only rifle to have. If winchester hadn't reintroduced CRF,most of these guys would still be shooting push feed rifles without any problem.

As for accuracy in remington rifles,its always a gamble with any production rifle. I've always had good luck with remington and that goes for winchester and savage also. Having read these forums and some of the posts,I've made a point to ask various smiths about current production rifles. Without fail,they've agreed that accuracy is at its best and is entering into what people used to expect from custom rifles. Another problem with accuracy,is you're assuming that the guy that is complaining about lack of accuracy,can even shoot straight,he might not even be able to grab his ass on a good day with both hands. Yet he's complaining about his rifle not shooting 1 inch groups. I've seen this scenario at the range many times. My local range has quite a few benchrest shooters that compete and spend many hours at the range. I've seen these guys take rifles wether remington or other brand and print 1 moa groups when the owner was getting patterns. It takes both a 1 inch rifle and a shooter capable of shooting 1 inch groups to make a rifle produce.

I've also run into a couple of gunsmiths that have done factory work for remington. Both agreed that extractor problems were the least common thing they saw in repairs. One of them was an ex marine armorer who had done considerable work on the M700's used by marine snipers,under battle conditions he's never seen an extractor problem.Yet people on these forums have failure rates like mad. My local smith is a die hard M70 fan,but he openly admits that he does most of his repairs on M70's here lately and said he couldn't bring himself to recommend them as off the shelf buys. This same smith does a lot of work with law enforcement and see's hundreds of new M700's and hasn't seen that many problems. Two local cops in my town went to a sniper competition two years ago in germany. The competitors were law enforcement agencies,military snipers(seals,delta,army and marine),not to mention CIA and other countries military snipers. These two cops placed 3rd and 27th out of 500 plus shooters. They used stock M700 PSS's,with nothing but leupold tactical scopes and trigger jobs. They competed against people using rifles costing thousands and still held they're own with a piece of shit new production inferior M700. I know tactical is diferant than hunting,but I've talked to these guys and the shit they and their rifles were put through was rougher then any Elk,deer or antelope hunt that you're likely to encounter.

Remingtons are just like any other production rifles. Get the bugs out and go kill game. Let the B.S. artists bable as they might.

For most hunting the first shot is the most important. A Reminton is pretty tough to beat in the mountains, weight is your enemy here. For North American hunting and all its requirements I think Remington is the action to beat.

Unless it's a DGR it's a Remington for me!

can't stand them myself and i guess I'm the only guy in the world that has had good luck with Winchesters, even a 300 Supergrade out of their new plant in North Carolina.

I belong to a big rifle range/club here in Florida that holds serious, national level and local competitions as well as lots of regular hunters like me. In my experience, the serious, fanatical target shooters with loud colored plastic stocks, little wind vanes and huge scopes, Do prefer 700s as does the "good ol' boy" crowd whose accuracy standards are "if it hits the black circle @ 100yards" it's good enough for me. But, the serious hunters, those who actually GO somewhere, be it Africa, Alaska, the West, etc, overwhelmingly shoot Winchesters, custom rifles, old Brownings, Weatherbys etc. I think my empirical observations speak for themselves. jorge

Yeah, remington has made good rifles, but the majority as of lately have sucked, more than they've been good. Fortunately for remington, theres no lemon law, or money back gaurantee, if things don't jive with a gun. If there was, they'd be sunk. Or they'd be charging as much as a weatherby, and building them right.
Trigger

Jorge, while I try not to take myself too seriously lest I make sweeping, unfounded statements like yours, I have been elk/mulie/antelope/prairie dog hunting in the West for the past 15 or so years. While I haven't made an in depth study of it as you apparently have, I would say that Remington is the rifle of choice by most hunters I see in Colo and WY and Mont. Weatherby shooters are usually snickered at behind their backs.

Remington still MAKES an accurate, safe, handsome, dependable Rifle that is a good investment! If for any reason you do not like your Remington Rifle they resell quicker than any other brand of Rifle. The Remington Rifles I have bought in the last couple of years are splendidly accurate! And I have not had one problem with any of them! I have bought unfired Remingtons in the following models and calibers recently, and I have the accuracy duly noted in my shooting log - a Remington 700 Classic in 17 Remington, a Remington 700 Classic in 221 Fireball, a Remington 700 Classic in 223 Remington, a Remington 700 VLS in 260 Remington, a Remington 700 VSS in 17 Remington, a Remington 700 BDMSS in 25/06. I inspected these Rifles before buying them and felt I was getting my moneys worth before and especially after firing them. They have been used by me - all at the range and for Varmints and Big Game! Not one failure or flaw has surfaced! In addition to these recent purchases I have owned many dozens more Remington 700's & 40X's over the last 40 years or so! All performed perfectly with the exception of one 223 PSS that does not always eject correctly! This could be easily fixed but I am not of a mind to let anyone touch that Rifle as it is INCREDIBLY ACCURATE! I will live with that minor flaw out of all of these Rifles over 40 years! Be VERY wary of folks who rumor monger, bemoan, and deride Remingtons and make up your own mind as I have!
Don't hesitate to buy Remington!
Some of the above posters have it right - quality of all factory firearms has diminished somewhat over the years but my recent Remington purchases have PERMANENT places in my gun vaults!
Remingtons in my opinion have not lost anything at all in the accuracy department in the last few years! And I speak from significant experience as I regularly buy, AND shoot them both at the range and in the game fields!
I am heading for a large Gun Show again this weekend and I will bet my Laser Leica Rangefinder that Remingtons will once again be the most eagerly sought, popular (by population) and strongest priced firearms there! Its been that way for the 35 years I have been doing Gun Shows and I expect it will remain so for many more years!
Good luck with whichever you decide on!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yes,go buy a remington, and see for yourself.
Then you can be a poster, bashing remington, that does'nt know what he's talking about too.
Trigger

I have only had a couple Rem rifles as I really don't care for them and feel you pay for the name more than anything.
I have one Mdl. 600 I plan to rebarrel to replace a 788 in .22-250 that I wore out. It served me well and I felt no guilt in dragging it through hell. It was painted completely hanging from the rafters in the garage and was never cleaned up until I traded it away. It shot very well and in fact outshot by bro'-in-laws' BDL.
For my money I'd pick other Mfg. over Rem any day. In fact I even bought a couple Ruger rifles back to the original tang safeties and one shoots into an inch with everything after bedding, and the other is a little more picky but still capable of inch groups without ever touching a thing. Even the trigger was pretty good.
It's personal choice! I think it's interesting how many Rems are available used though. If they were so great why would anyone give up their beloved Rem?

Well I guess I ruffled some feathers, but I suppose I had it coming by expecting some folks to be smart enough to realize that virtually all comments and observations are empirical and not based on scientific data. I stand by what I said; serious bench rest shooters and the less experienced use 700s, whereas the more committed tend to gravitate towards the other brands I mentioned. I

Speaking of broad and unfounded statements, Beewhatshisname's comment on Weatherby owners speak for itself. jorge

Although I currently do not own and Rem. rifles I have owned a few in my life. It was a personal thing for me as well, fit, weight, groups etc. Granted I could have had work done to accomodate my needs but I chose not to and gave them up. Most every mass production co's. will end up slipping a bad one into the system every now and then and it is obvious Rem is no different, but they apparently send out a few more than others. This is not a Rem bashing, in most cases they are a good gun and certainly fill a niche in the mass production category and the reality is not everyone can afford a custom built finely tuned rig. In regards to Weatherby, My favorite rifle is a 300 Weatherby MK V I bought over 20 years ago and it is still a tack driver!

I have owned several Rem's in various calibers and configurations, in the past. I became aware of certain problems about 25 years ago, and don't now own any. OK, trigger. I might as well just say that proper gun handling would prevent virtually all AD's that lead to a person dying, but we all know it (proper handling) isn't going to happen all the time every time a gun is picked up, don't we? Right now I seem to have this P14 thing going. Any new Rems in the visible future?, not for me just yet. It doesn't appear that quality control has improved, to say the least.

Just a note. I really do not think Walmart buys direct. In ordering a rifle from them they went through Sports South to purchase the special order.

Wal-mart buys direct on most of the models they stock which is the low end stuff. If you want something special ordered then they order it through a wholesaler like sports south or lipseys, just like any small gun shop, except the gun shop will generally give you a better price and the guy handing it to you will actually know which end the bullet comes out of.

sharpshooter, I'm not a fan of Remington bolt actions, the exception being the Mannlicher style from the Custom Shop. That being said, I am not anti Remington. I think their 870 is the best shotgun out there and I love the 7600 to death. I've been using Savage for a lot of years but I was looking at the 7600 Synthetic in the carbine model in their catalogue and I have a feeling that will be my next purchase. And no, I won't try to persuade you to buy a Savage.