I'm headed for my first Elk hunt this fall in Montana. I'm taking two rifles, a Remington 721 in 300 H&H, and a rebarreled Remington 788 in 358 Winchester. My original thought for bullets was 200gr Sierra SBT for the 300, and 225gr Sierra SBT for the 358. I'm a big fan of Sierra but I keep reading folks pumping up the premium bullets for elk. My guide says shots are usually within 250 yards, so I'm kinda doubting the need for a premium. I am, however, cognizant of the fact that I have never tackled game this large. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

Spend the extra money on the premium bullets. Better safe than sorry. The elk can't be too dead. TSX or A-frame, can't go wrong with either. Pick the one that shoots best out of your gun.

Col K,

I'm no elk expert but if you are on a guided elk hunt your only shot on the bull of the woods might be a bad angle or a going away shot. With the Sierras you have no shot. With a Nosler Partition, a Swift A-Frame, TSX etc just take the shot presented as these bullets will give you the pentration you need.

Mark

quote:

My guide says shots are usually within 250 yards, so I'm kinda doubting the need for a premium

Actually, the closer the shot, the more potential need for a premium. At close range, a 'soft' bullet might come apart and fail to penetrate, especially if you hit big bones.

Besides, the bullet is the cheapest part of the hunt AND your only connection to the animal.

Try a TSX, Partition, Aframe, GMX, etc. and use the one that shoots the best.

sierra make wonderfully accurate bullets, but using them on big game - well i have and had good success, except for a couple of times when they blew up. one of which was a 200 gr out of a 300 mag on a muley buck (at about 400 yds) and another time from a 270 wby on a kudu hit in the nect at about 100 yds. hence i don't quite trust them on game anymore

I've killed elk with standard cup-n-core Sierra bullets and with Nosler Partitions. The both have worked and have brought home freezers full of meat. For your .300 H&H I'd go with a premium bullet, but for the .358 Win I'd probably just stick with the Sierra's if they are accurate for you. The .358 just doesn't have the velocity with a 225 grain to need a premium bullet, I don't see where a Barnes, Nosler, or Swift will perform any better.

200gr Partition, or Grand Slam, or Woodleigh. Those bullets I have experience with. They work.
I don't agree that the Sierra bullet is soley for paper punching any longer, however.

sounds like you are already concerned about what you are using,if it makes you sleep better at night and will give you more confidence
during your hunt,by all means make the switch.
myself i see no reason for the change
performance wise.
i've shot sierra's for 10% and nosler ballistic tips for 90% of the 60 personal elk i've killed
and a whole gammit of others used by my hunters
totaling another 150+
good luck and let us know how your hunt went.

Another vote for premium bullets. I am no elk expert. But lets be honest, this is an important hunt that you do not just walk out the back door of your house and do every year.

Like I tell people all the time regarding "should I spend the $ on X or Y bullet"

I think for any hunt that can benefit from the use of a premium bullet you should use one.

Obviously if you live in Texas, then blast pigs year round with whatever crap bullet you can get cheap. Coyote, same thing, you only have to hit them, I have never heard of someone loosing a coyote due to bullet failure.

Elk are at least as tough as any African plains game (think Zebra) they warrant premium bullets in any less than ideal shooting situation. Elk are not simply "big deer" they are tough animals and they deserve a real rifle shooting a real bullet.

I used Barnes X 180 grainers in my 300 win mag last October in Wyoming on elk. I was glad I did.

The ONE shot I got was less than ideal, quartering away very steeply at 130 yards through thick stuff. I shot behind the shoulder and exited in front of the opposite shoulder.

Use the best bullet that your rifle shoots well, whatever that is.

Remember there are a lot of ways to save $50 to $100 on a hunt the bullet you pick should not be one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Honkey:
Another vote for premium bullets. I am no elk expert. But lets be honest, this is an important hunt that you do not just walk out the back door of your house and do every year.

Like I tell people all the time regarding "should I spend the $ on X or Y bullet"

.....there are a lot of ways to save $50 to $100 on a hunt the bullet you pick should not be one of them.

+2

The Hornady 190 BTSP Interlock is a very under-appreciated bullet in 30 caliber. From personal experience I know that it does an excellent job on Colorado elk. Nosler partitions also work very well on elk. I have also used Hornady 358 bullets on elk (250 grain SP Interlock in a 35 Whelen Improved) with success.

I really don't see how stepping up to a premium bullet is really going to help. We are talking about two rilfe cartridges one with a MV more than likely less than 3000 fps and the other 2500 fps. How is a premium bullet going to really improve the performance here? The way I look at it either a standard bullet or a premium will probably perform the same.

Just because you can get nearly 3000 fps that is why I'd consider a premium in the .300 H&H. You never actually know how close you will be when you pull the trigger and I've killed elk around 50 yards before. The .358 there is no way I'd change my bullet if I had an accurate load with Sierra's it just can't push them hard enough to cause them to blow up on an elk.

I agree bullets are the cheapest part of the hunt. I would just have a hard time changing from a load that I have confidence in with these cartridges. Unless that new bullet and load was giving me far better accuracy than what I had before.

Your Sierra's will work just fine. Nosler Partition or Hdy Interlock will also work. No real need for the DU round on elk but it does offer a little more 'confidence'. My psnl elk round is the 300 H&H launching a 200gr Speer Hot Core.

I have to vote with the majority here Col K. All of my Elk were taken with a .280 using a Speer Grand Slam (160 gr). My very first bull was at 500 yards when I put 3 double lung shots on him (all complete pass through, all within a 5 inch group). He didn't fall or even stumble, he just started walking away, keeping broadside to me. My last shot wasn't ranged, but we estimated he was 575 yards when he stopped. I put a shot through his left shoulder, which broke it, and it continued and exited out the right side. Evidently its energy was exhausted enough to snap back into the wound channel by being intertwined in sinew. I recovered this bullet inside the wound channel (see pics). It's just Murphy's Law, and when you need that well constructed bullet; you need it! I'm not suggesting you shoot at longer ranges than your confident with, but I grew up shooting longer ranges at Ground Hogs (Marmot) and am very familiar with it. Good luck on your hunt, I hope you get a nice bull.
David

Premiums won't hurt in the 300, may not be needed but its cheap insurance on a likely expensive guided hunt. Use the sierras in the 358, at the speeds and distances that round is effective on elk, its just a waste. That's a short range thumper, and even at 100 yards its doin what, 22-2500 fps? Sierras are fine. If you're pushing the 300 to win mag speeds a stronger bullet is a good idea. Partitions, interbonds, accubonds, grand slams.....the list goes on and on these days. Personally I use Nosler FailSafes (bought a bunch when they were discontinued) in various 300's. I picked up a 45/70 for dark timber work, and good ol' conventionals will be my choice for that. On faster carts, I have seen what elk do to bullets, and while dead, many required extra shots and tracking. They're not bullet proof but they ARE tough critters. I have seen, like others have said, soak up several "kill' shots and just look around like they farted and were checking to make sure no one else knew.

I have killed a bunch of elk with 180 gr Accubonds in a .300. They never go far at all.

The A-Frames would be good too, and I know the partitions would. At 250 yars or less, a 200 grainer will be fine- so you have lots of choices...

I've killed several Bull Elk and nearly all were killed with 180 grain Sierra SPBT's out of my 30/06. All excellent performance, mostly one shot kills and never recovered a bullet (all exits) until I switched to Accubonds. I recovered 2 Accubond 180 grain bullets from 2 Bulls I guess they worked but compared side by side I liked the Sierra's better so I switched back. The Accubonds weighed 114 grains and about a 60 grain hull of copper for the other one.
In my opinion nothing wrong with Sierra's and I'm sure their bad rep is from pushing them at magnum speeds and close range shots. My Bulls have all been killed from 30 yards to 425 yards never any tracking needed. Load is running about 2750 fps. This same bullet has taken Deer, Antelope, Bighorn Sheep and Mountain Goat for me, nothing magic it just works. If Sierra's shoot well in your rifles just use them. I don't shoot Sierra's because of cost I shoot them because they are very accurate in my rifles.
I've heard plenty of complaints about A frames and Barnes penciling through and needing some tracking (in 30 cal.) although I've not used them so not experienced it first hand.
Elk are tough and deserve respect but they are not bullet proof. With my 30/06 and the 180 grain Sierra's I would not hesitate to shoot any bull at comfortable ranges for me at any angle I deem a decent shot. I wouldn't take a different shot with a .338 Win Mag then what I take with my '06.
PS: a going away ass shot is not a "shot" in my opinion and isn't advisible with a 30/06 shooting lowly cup and core bullets or an over the top magnum shooting premium bullets. It just isn't a "shot" for me or one I would advise anyone to take.

Let the flaming begin!

I have taken alot of bull elk and I only will use a .338 win mag. with a handloaded nosler 200gr to a 225 gr.boattails. I would leave the 358 home and stick to the 300 h&h. shot will be 100yds to 400 yds--this is montana and its wide open---too many wolves in the timber...Have a fun trip...

www.african-montana-taxidermy.com

Oakman
right on, to much fuss about this bullet and that bullet. Go to Africa they sell you solids or softs not this big bullet hype.
I have killed over 50 big game elk and African animals alike with the same handloaded 225 grain 338 with H-4831.
Just hit them in the vitals practice practice practice is better than depending on a high dollar bullet.
Just my 2 cents
Larry

snell,

Not disagreeing with you at all, just maybe shedding a bit of light on the topic. We have the luxury of being resident hunters with 50$ tags and extra time possibly to recover game. I'm also guessing us in elk country are more interested in the hunt and the meat. The OP is going on a guided hunt, with high priced out of state tags, and is likely most concerned about antler size. I don't advocate the texas heart shot either, but he is on very limited time and probably less concerned about ruining meat if it means the animal is down quickly as possible.

Mile High Shooter,

I could not agree more with your previous post.

As said, premium bullets are cheap insurance. The question was raised , "I don't see what a premium bullet will do under these circumstances..." or words to that effect.

But simply, under less than ideal conditions a non premium (basically anything other than a bonded or preferably monometallic bullet) may fail miserably and detrimentally.

CONVERSLY...

Once again under less than ideal conditions a premium bullet is much more likely to not blow up, be deflected by bone ect ect ect.

I am in no way trying to say that shooting "premium" bullets forgives shitty shot placement or makes up for shots that should not be taken in the first place no matter what.

They may certainly help, if not save the day on an expensive, tough and otherwise important hunt. They certainly can do no harm and the cost difference is about that of a 30 pack of cheap beer.

Some of you guys here act like I am advocating double bagging your wang on your honeymoon night!!!

Plenty of good advise here. Here is my $.02
1. Shot placement trumps all
2. If you have to track you want a exit wound
3. Most outfitters say if you draw blood thats your animal.
4. Elk can run miles in country you can barely walk on.
5. Premium bullets are cheap compared to the cost of a hunt.
Good luck

I look at this like what to do spend for coffee? Out side of load development and checking zero before a hunt, you are really not going to shoot Noslers or the others that much. Shoot speers sps or what have you for targets. One of my favorite loads is the 160 gr Nosler Partition in a 7mm Remington Mag, I shoot 160 gr Speer Sp. They shoot close enough that it would not make much of a difference in the field. Would I shoot an elk with a Speer SP yep I sure would, if it was the only thing in the pipe at the time. I like shooting the Partition on big game been doing it since 1969. In all those years and all the game I gotten to hunt over that period of time, I never once gave the cost of the bullet a second thought. Motor fuel travel expenses, tags and the cost of just taking the time makes paying 2 dollars for the bullet well its not even a cup of coffee these days.

On Deer I have shot every bullet produced in the U.S. On Elk my preference is in order. North Fork, Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX, then Swift A-Frame. Take your pick, they are all very close, your rifle might tell which it likes best. Good shooting.