I've hunted elk twice. Two kills, both with a 30.06 shooting standard corelokt 180 grainers
Neither time did the bullet fail, but neither kill was extremely reassuring. I followed up both shots immediately so each elk had two holes in it (pretty close together too).
My question is now that I reload, should I work up a "premium" load for this gun, or do I need a bigger hammer? I'm thinking maybe 7mm rem mag or 300 win mag. Just not sure if either one offers enough advantage to justify the purchase.
Thanks in advance.

In my opinion elk definitely warrant a premium bullet. I have had good luck with both Nosler Partitions and TSX bullets.

The question might be....at what point in the animals death did the bullet fail? That said if you are comfortable with your 30-06, can put the bullet where it needs to go, and keep the ranges reasonable, then stick with it. Perhaps upgrade to a premium bullet (all manner of debate on that!).

Although I shot my first two elk with a 7mm Rem Mag it wouldn't be my first choice (or 2nd or 3rd). Go with a 300 Mag or even a 338 Mag. With 225 grainer or 250's you are talking a considerable step up from a 30-06. Just make sure you can handle it and put the bullets where they need to go.

I'm not suggesting that the corelokt ever failed. With that bullet(which groups well in my rifle), on 2 elk I have 5 shots, 4 hits, two kills. I can't say for certain, that either elk required a follow up. But CO is a long way and a lot of money from NC, plus I don't want any animal to disappear, suffer, etc... so I shot and kept shooting. I know that these beasties are 1000 times tougher than my local NC moutain deer.
I guess I'm just curious as to whether those with more experience would recommend a larger/more powerful cartridge for an occaisional elk hunter or just work up a good load with the old '06.

Bluemtn: I think the '06 is a fine elk round. 180 partitions are what I've come 'round to. In my opinion the 7 Mag is a step backward, and if you need to justify buying another rifle, make it a 300 mag of some flavor, or a 338. I also like the 338-06. hits hard, not much recoil and a great selection of good bullets, settled on the 210 Nosler Partition. HTH Les

If you are happy with the Remington bullets in your 30.06 (oh, by the way, it is a great elk caliber), then load some of these.

Nothing wrong with the bonded corelocked ultras. However, since they are getting up there in price, you can now shop for a bit better bullet.

My top choices for my .06 for elk are any of these:

180 partition
168 TTSX or 180 TTSX
180 Aframe
180 Scirocco
185 VLD
180 NAB

They are all great bullets. And all will work. I will respectfully disagree with the above comment that the 7mag is a step down to the 30.06. They are both big boys and you would never notice a difference with a dead elk with either caliber so long as you use an appropriate bullet. A gentlemen that works at Nosler spoke with me last year about his combo for elk: 7mag, 150 Btip. Dead elk every time he has a tag.

In fact, the 7 will give you the advantage if your shots are longer. Better BCs on average. Here's a video of an elk killed at 743 yards with a 168 Berger VLD/7mm Rem Mag combo. Not saying I condone it, call it hunting, etc. Just posting the capability of the shooter and caliber: 7 rem mag 743 yard bull elk

I've used the 30/06 for years here in Colorado. My bullet is 180 grain. I've used "Core-lokt", "Win PP" & Hornady interlocks-------roughly the same bullet---cup & core. They do work well out of the 06. Of the past 30 years, don't want to toot my own horn, I've killed right at 25 plus my buddies another 25 all with the 06 & plain jane 180 grainer. Lost elk----total of 1-----bad shot placement by me.

With that said, I found a buy on some Federal Nolser Partitions this past summer. I used them on this year's elk. Not much difference---dead elk. Meat loss was the same.

If you want to change----try a box of Federal's 180 grain Nolser Partitions. If they don't group for you-----stick with the "Core-lokts" & go kill an elk.

FYI----tha't good advice---kepp shooting till it's down. CB

its sorta like real estate;
location,location,location
it doesn't matter what you use to interupt the oxygen supply to the brain, a split pea or a 105 howitzer(howitzer is alittle more messy)
5 shots at 2 elk resulted in 2 dead elk,they don't just tip over when you hit them with any caliber.
your chance at elk #3 will require accurate shot placement,change bullets if you have no faith in the ones you are using and practice out to 350,put 5 shots in a 6" bull at 350 and enjoy your elk hunt

You have a good caliber, and if you are shooting them behind the shoulder through the lungs it really does not matter if you shoot them with a 338 or an 06.
Elk are just tough as nails, and with either caliber you are probably going to have time for another whack at them before they go down, which I agree is good medicine for a bull elk.
If I were worried about the caliber and bullet choice that you have I would be paying more attention to how the bullet performed inside the animal.
I am betting that you most likely found them both balled up under the hide on the far side am I right?
If so, and if the bullet held together at all then it would make not one ounce of difference if you had shot him with a bigger caliber, he was still going down if you took out his breathers.
The only reason I would look at a different caliber is for A, more range as in a flatter trajectory from the 7mag, or a bigger deeper driving bullet as in the 338 for bad shot anlges where you are trying to reach the vitals through the flank or through the shoulder knuckle joint.
Now with all that said would I use a standard bullet on bull elk, nope.
Why? because I don't have to.
The bullets you shoot are by far the cheapest part of the hunt, rip a good shirt and it will cost you more than the difference between standard or premium bullets.
I would say if you shoot your 06 well, and it fits you then load up some 165 Barnes, stoke the fire under them, and don't look back.

And yes, still shoot him twice, unless he is still standing and then shoot him until he falls.
And then be ready to shoot him again if he gets up..
Yes the suckers are that tough, I have had them prove it to me more than once.

Nothing like a bit of justification for a new rifle .

That said, the '06 with a premium bullet is just fine. My '06 loaded with 180 TTSX bullets is my backup rifle for elk. It became the backup because I "justified" a new rifle just for elk . I thought the 338 route was the way to go and ended up buying a 338-378 Wby. It's way more then is necessary but it's accurate and I shoot it well so I'm not complaining. Make no mistake, I wouldn't hesitate to use my '06.

A friend of mine took a bull elk this past season with his 270 using partitions. He said he felt undergunned a bit and the elk when down on the shot but wasn't dead, trying to get back up. He finished it with his 41 mag. He's thinking of going with a 300 Win the next time he gets drawn. I suggested an '06 if he didn't want the recoil of a magnum. He's pretty open to that idea but will shoot another friend's 300 to see which one he prefers.

Ken....

Not much to add to all the above but just wanted to encourage you to keep shooting until they stop moving as you quite evidently are doing quite well. I would find a premium that works well in your old '06 and keep on keepin on. Helps a bit on bad angles.

Keep your 30-06. Go to a Partion or Accubond type bullet. Go with what shoots best in your rifle. The 30-06 is enough for any elk. Test, optimize and develop your loads for next year. A 300 is the same caliber and will only increase your range. It will also increase the variables to reach sucess. A 7Mag does little to increase true terminal performance in the field. It also sounds like you need to quit crunching the ballistic table numbers so hard.

Lots of great advice given on the subject.

Personally I don't like the 30-06, but I have seen a bunch of folks kill a bunch of elk grave yard dead with the things out to 500 yards.

As has been said, if you just want justifacation nto go with a new rifle, I would look at either a 300 Win Mag or 300 Weatherby.

I have owned both, but when it came down time to trim my collection the 300 Win went Bye Bye and the 300 Weatherby is still with me.

Just an odd tid bit or two, as for the 7mm Rem Mag, the outfitter I hunt with in western Colorado, claims that over his 40+ years of guiding, he has seen more elk hit and lost by folks using 7 mags than any other cartridge.

As for your shooting the elk twice, every elk guide/outfitter I have ever talked to, has, to a person, advised that as long as the elk is still standing, keeping putting slugs into it because a wounded elk can go a long ways.

If you are conserned about the animal not going down fast enough, you might want to think about moving your aiming point so that your first shot will break one or both shoulders, thereby getting the animal off its feet.

Then if you need to put a finisher in, it will be on an animal off its feet and some what immobile.

I use an -o6 with 180 grain Swift A-frames. They always work perfectly for me on all elk sized game animals. Yes, a bull elk hit with this bullet, even though it passes clear through, may not go down instantly. The last one traveled about 50 yards before tipping over. Every experienced hunter will tell you, "keep shooting while it is on its feet."
WYLD

Thanks everybody for sharing your advice/experiences. I think I'll probably buy a couple of the bullets recommended and start looking for what my rifle likes. Save money from buying a rifle and put it toward a hunt.

Probably won't be back after elk this year, but I'm definately not done chasin' em yet!

Just wanted to second Crazyhorseconsulting's suggestion to put your bullet high in the shoulder. I have become a big fan of the high shoulder shot in recent years. I often hunt elk in places where I can't afford to have an elk run for fear they will keel over in some hell hole. A high shoulder shot drops them in their tracks. I shoot a .300 RUM using 200grn TSX bullets but my next rifle will be a .300 WSM.

Since you are reloading you might as well try the premium bullets - Partition and TSX. This is the least expensive way to go especially you are shooting good with you 06.

On the other hand, like most of us, we like new toys. A 300WM bushes the same bullet faster and drive it deeper - an advice from Barnes.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
its sorta like real estate;
location,location,location

+1
100% shoot what you have. That combo has and will kill enough elk to sink a ship.

read what colorado bob said - then just do it. an 06' is more than capable for elk, and has been for over 100 years.

it ain't the arrow, it's the indian!

I have several questions:

1. What about the bullet's performance did you not like? Did it fail to exit? Did it fail to provide a blood trail? If the animal just didn't drop on the spot, that's still no reason to dump the bullet.

2. Are you looking for better energy transfer, or better penetration? Either has its merits, but you can't have the best of both worlds...

Just curious...

gd

quote:

I've hunted elk twice. Two kills, both with a 30.06 shooting standard corelokt 180 grainers

If it's not broke....

quote:

neither kill was extremely reassuring.

Please expound on that statement. Elk are tough critters and it takes a bigger hammer (diameter) to get the same effect on elk that an 06 would have on you NC deer.

After Ganyana's article about cartridges for DG. I keep coming back to his statement comparing "killing vs stopping power".

A 30-06 has all the killing power you need for elk. But if you are looking for stopping power, in my experience that comes from 338 caliber and above. Or skeletal/CNS shot placement.

With that being said, my go to elk rifle is a 338-06, it has served me well.

I hunted elk with a group of people in Wyoming that all had their opinions on what an elk rifle ought to be. Some of the more successful types really liked the 25-06. The 270 always had some users but all thought of the 30-06 as a cannon. I used my 30-06 on many elk, most traveled a ways but not too far. This could be said of all the well hit elk unless they were hit in the neck. I used Speer Hotcors and Remington Corelokts mostly at the time. We had guys using 338 magnums ( I used one for a while) and 300 Win mags (tried one myself also) but I am back to using my old favorite the 30-06. We were "locals" thus hunted for meat and generally shot spikes or cows and even purposely passed bulls in favor of better eating elk. We did kill some big ones too though. We generally did drives and of course our elk were running when shot at most of the time. We avoided hitting them in the shoulders to keep meat damage down. You would have to say that this group of rifleman were probably better game shots than your average hunters which helpes a lot.

bluemtn,

Sound like you experienced typical 30 caliber performance on an elk. Meaning unimpressive. The 338 isn't a whole heck of a lot better though. The 375 does show some significant improvement. The corelokts scare me when considering what can happen to them when the hit heavy bone. I would opt for a bonded bullet, somewhat heavy for caliber (say 200+ gr), and keep the ol' '06 unless you really want to step up in caliber to a 375 (or perhaps one of the 358 magnums ie Norma or STA).

First of all, hearty congratulations on killing two elk! Way to go! By the way (insert evil laugh) you will never escape the curse of the elk hunter! On the bright side, to quote the book The Elk Hunter, "If you have to be cursed, it's the only way to go."
I use a 30-06 and 180 Partitions, and have killed one cow elk at about 125 paces, dead in 70 yards, one shot. I am trying 200 gr. NABs this year, but more to gain initial contact energy on marauding bears than on elk.
I don't think you need more than a 30-06 for elk, providing you use heavy, well constructed bullets, 180 gr. and up, though many are probably kllled with less. Chances are good that you won't shoot past about 250 yards, and at that range, all a larger gun is going to do is give more impact energy. "Flat-shooting calibers" are extremely over-rated, IMHO, unless you start using very high speed (past 3500 fps).
Since you are familiar with your 06 with 180s, I would suggest that you stick with that and upgrade your bullets to an accurate 180 or 200 gr premium. The trajectory difference will be negligible at reasonable hunting ranges to 300 yards or so. The added bonus is that you don't have to try to adjust to a new gun or develop confidence with an unfamiliar firearm. (Maybe I'm the only one who has issues with that. )
Lastly, go on Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's web site, click the Hunting link, and then click the rifles and cartridges link. Read the article by Wayne van Zwoll on the 30-06. (Sorry I couldn't post the address.) I found it very interesting, and quite helpful. Hope this helps,
Good hunting,
Graham

quote:

Originally posted by bluemtn:
I've hunted elk twice. Two kills, both with a 30.06 shooting standard corelokt 180 grainers
Neither time did the bullet fail, but neither kill was extremely reassuring. I followed up both shots immediately so each elk had two holes in it (pretty close together too).
My question is now that I reload, should I work up a "premium" load for this gun, or do I need a bigger hammer? I'm thinking maybe 7mm rem mag or 300 win mag. Just not sure if either one offers enough advantage to justify the purchase.
Thanks in advance.

Regardless of what others may tell you, a 225g TSX in a 338WM will cure your problem, if two dead elk is a problem.

You have plenty of gun, but I think you're wise to choose a premium bullet and find a load that your gun really likes.

I think you need a bigger hammer caliber wise. Consider the .338, .323 (325 wsm, 8mm Rem Mag), .358, .366 (9.3x62, 9.3x74R), .375 Ruger, H&H, Weatherby etc, and .416 Ruger or Remington.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
I think you need a bigger hammer caliber wise. Consider the .338, .323 (325 wsm, 8mm Rem Mag), .358, .366 (9.3x62, 9.3x74R), .375 Ruger, H&H, Weatherby etc, and .416 Ruger or Remington.

Oh my god you have got to be shittin me. Yep...I'll say it again Elk cant be killed with "regular" rifles with "regular" bullets.

30-06 + 180 grn regular bullet = dead elk

The old 30/06 should be fine with a 165 or 180 C&C bullets, 100K's have been taken with it. I personally have never used the 06 for elk, strange since I've owned a dozen rifles chanbered in it, but the opertunity never arose. That said I have taken elk with 270-130 gr, 7x57-140, 264-140, about a dozen with 300win 180&200 grainers, all cup&core bullets from hot-cores to silver tips to core loks. Put the shot where it is supposed to go and it will work, Elk aren't bullet proof.

Surprise! Elk don't just fall down dead! Shot placement, let me repeat that, shot placement. If you don't break a shoulder or hit the spine, good luck. Dead elk for sure but you can expect it to travel a bit. I've seen a six point take 3 200gr NP's form a 300 Wby behind the shoulder and walk over one hundred yards like nothing happened, until he fell over dead that is. I've seen a cow elk that was in a state of agitation take two 150 NP's that shreaded her lungs like nothing happened and then causually walk 50 yds and fall over dead. I've also seen a nice 5x5 take a single high shoulder shot with a Rem Core-lok and fall down dead right there because it shattered his spine. A calf elk take several clean hits from a 06 and 180gr NP's like nothing happened because it was in a state of panic. And finally I've seen two nice bulls DRT from 150gr NP's out of a 270 because they were relaxed and had no idea anything bad might be going to happen.

Point is here that the "mood" the elk is in has something to do with it. Run, scared, paniced or alert animals will travel if you don't break some bones. Relaxed nappers don't go far even with soft tissue hits.

Concerned about the elk wandering off? Break some bones, learn elk anatomy. Meat your only concern? Learn to track.

I currently use a 9.3x62 with 286gr NP's on elk. Over the last few years I've taken to hunting timber for elk and the shots are short and sometimes ass end or quartering away. This round penetrates to the vitals and breaks bones every time. A larger bullet, more potent caliber MAY solve some problems but for some people it creates more problems than it solves. Shot placement is king. You will have far greater success with a round that you shoot well and consistantly than one you can't hit the broadside of a brick sh*thouse from the inside with.

Yes ted thorn, and African elephant are killed with .22 Short. That's not my point.

I'll go out on a (very stout) limb, and say that there isn't a bull elk alive that can't be killed with a .30-06!

IMO the most important factor is SHOT PLACEMENT. Next would be BULLET PENETRATION, and third would be shot RANGE.

My last duty station in the Army was at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma. I used to spend alot of time at the rifle range after work. One afternoon, there were two guys at the bench next to me that were shootng a .375 H&H. One of them had drawn a Witchata Mtn elk tag and he was told that he needed at least that size rifle to kill an elk. At that time, I had only killed one bull elk (with a borrowed .30-40 Krag), so I didn't say anything.

Now, with 32 more elk in my freezer, I feel that I can say something. Before I went into the Army, I worked with a couple of guys who grew up in northwestern Colorado, and each of them killed their elk every year with their .30-06's. So, following their lead, the first rifle that I bought for elk was a .30-06. I then killed 8 elk with that .30-06, including a 375" 6-pt bull. Most were one shot kills. I initally used 150 gr bullets then switched to 180 gr for more penetration.

A few years after I moved to Montana I had my .30-06 rechambered to .30 Gibbs, mainly because I thought that the Gibbs case "looked cool". I also started shooting 180 gr Partitions because they gave me better penetration at the Gibbs (.300 Win) velocities. I used to refer to my .30 Gibbs as my "cannon", until I got a .375 Ultra Mag.

I've since killed another 22 elk, 2 Shiras bull moose, and 2 Alaskan caribou with the .30 Gibbs and 180 gr Partitions, mostly one shot kills. I've also made one shot kills on elk with archery, a .257 AI, and a 7mm Rem. All of these hunts were unguided, DIY, mostly on public land, and for many of them, including one of the moose, I was hunting alone.

All but one of these animals were shot at under 300 yds, and most at less than 100 yds. My archery bull was "spot and stalk" with a recurve bow at 10 yds.

I write all this not to toot my own horn, but to show that I think I have a little more than average elk hunting experience to base my opinions on.

Although I've killed many elk with less, I think that they should be hunted with a Premium bullet, mainly for optimum penetration at less than perfect shot angles.

I see alot of Outdoor TV shows and hear other hunters talk of 500, 600, 700 yd., or greater shots at elk (and other game), and I consider these shots more of a shooting stunt than of hunting skill. I think more animals are wounded, and maybe lost, at those ranges than are killed with one shot, as shown on TV.

I think the .30-06 is very adequate for elk, especially with a 165 or 180 gr premium bullet when properly placed with some shooting and stalking skills at under 300 yds.

Oh, my elk hunting rifle now? A .300 Weatherby that I just finished building, shooting 180 gr Barnes TSX bullets. Just because I've always wanted one.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
Yes ted thorn, and African elephant are killed with .22 Short. That's not my point.

Then what is your point? Sarcasm? A "regular" 30-06 and 180 grn bullets hardly = .22lr shorts

There is no super rifle that will make up for piss-poor shooting.

"IMO the most important factor is SHOT PLACEMENT" Nuf said! thanks buffybr

bluemtn, pick up that 06 and go hunting.

You are sarcastic ted thorn. I offered a comment on caliber and you were biligerant.

Biligerant? I'm sorry I assumed you must be using sarcasm because of the .416 Ruger/Remington remark.

Buliwyf,
Why do you need a cartridge designed for dangerous game to hunt elk? I agree with your recommendation of a .338, but all the calibers you mentioned are going to have substantial recoil, especially if the gun is light enough to actually carry in elk country. I don't have a lot of experience hunting elk, but I have connected on one, and one shot with a premium bullet was very adequate with my 30-06. Maybe the elk you have hunted are much bigger than ours up here in Northern BC, but they definitely don't need a .416! If you want to pack it, it will do the job, if you can practice enough to shoot it accurately.
You may well have more experience than me, and that is fine, but there is no way he "needs" a bigger gun to kill an elk.
Good hunting,
Graham

take heed to what buffybr has to say,when a fella has stacked a trainload of tan sides he tends to know what hes talking about.
i tend to think that so much has been written on elk hunting a mystic has grown to surround the animal,
yes,they are tough to a poor shot or poor cartridge choice (per hunting conditions and hunters skill and experience)
that said there is an army of people here in the west that go about their elk hunting quietly with standard caliber rifles.
if i know 1 i know a dozen hunters w/50 plus elk to their credit that never shot any more than an 06s, 270s, 300 savage,
old school elk hunters that hunted within the range and capabilitys of their weapon and had no superman mentality when it comes to the elk.
they are regal game and the country you hunt them in often times breathtaking and awe inspiring but they are not bulletproof.
often times they are harder to find than they are to kill.
when i was a kid all i had was a 243 and accounted for nearly a doz elk with it before i could afford a 270, yes a 243,would i use one again?wouln't be afraid to if it was all i had,but certainly wouldn't be my 1st choice.
we did hunt for meat and the bone crushing,stern to stem, bust their shoulders, spine em',blast em',garlic and silver bullet method wasn't an option either.
just stick one in their lungs and if you get a chance stick in a 2nd,and follow the blood trail to the downed animal and get busy rolling the guts out and if in griz country get them off the ground or on a horse and notch you elk tag.
i'll give you this, they make for good long conversation and opinions of every shape and size,daydreams and nightmares,pride and humility
sweat and tears.
and all of our lives are that much richer just being able to say out loud"i've hunted elk"

ravenr
That was very well spoken, truer words cannot be heard concerning elk!

hanks for everyone's input.
I guess I got this topic started when I was daydreaming back on my two hunts (both unguided, diy, on public land).
As I said before, I'm not positive that either elk (one smallish cow, and one raghorn bull) required the follow up shots, but I shot and will continue to keep shooting untill they are down.
I guess what planted the seed for this thread was how each animal seemed to take the first shot as if unfazed. I did take the traditional tight behind the shoulder, heart/lung shot on both. I recovered one corelokt under the farside hide from both. The small cow made it about 200 yards from the first hit. I hit her again at a lazered 371 yards where she fell.
The raghorn bull may have traveled 100 to 120 yards. He was much above me and I think that the first shot just clipped the top of the nearside lung. I got lucky and put another round directly below that one about 5 or six inches and he was over.
When I get to go back I'll be toting the '06, but I am going to cook up a new load with a different bullet, if for no other reason then the fun of working it up!
Thanks everybody and good luck!
P.S.- RavenR, right on my life is definately richer for my experiences in elk country!

For what its worth, here is my take on this. I apologize for any preaching.

I do most of my shooting at a large private gun club. I have noticed that virtually all of the other shooters there are shooting from some variety of bench rest, ranging from stacks of 2x6s to complicated adjustable rests. This includes the guys blasting away with semi-auto AKs, and the ones developing hunting loads. Once a month or so I see someone shooting from sticks.

I virtually never see anyone else shooting from any hunting position. Correction - once in a while I see a competitive shooter with target rifle, scope, mat, jacket, etc.

I mainly hunt with a 7mm rem mag and a .30-06, and figure that these rifles, which mostly group in the 1-2" range at 100 yds, are all more accurate than me from any hunting position. I spend most of my range time shooting from standing, sitting, or with sticks. Recently I have been shooting at plain sheets of orange typing paper. Mostly I shoot at 100 yds, but occasionally at 200.

I do try to pick accurate ammo to hunt with, and believe that hunting bullets, like jumper cables, are a bad place to save money. I have been using Nosler Accubonds, with excellent results.

Now that I have a new grandson, I am absolutely paranoid about him ingesting any lead, so am switching to Barnes TSX (my moose bullet this year).