HI, i'm looking to BUY rifle caliber insert barrels for use in shotgun barrels.

does anyone have experience with the German made ones ?

especially in centerfire calibers ?

Yes, the barrel inserts are very common over here.

Some people swear by them, and claim great results. I have to admit my experience was somewhat sobering. I use a .22 Hornet, "Fritz", full length insert - traditionally considered one of the better brands. Sadly, mine won't hold zero, quite apart from it being a pain in the neck to sight in. I have a feeling it might have to do with the firing pin hole. My primers tend to extrude into the firing pin hole (light loads), and that probably causes the insert to be moved around when the gun is opened.

Based on my experience, these barrels are a great idea, but you should not be too picky with range performance. I have managed to kill several critters with mine - foxes, badgers etc.

- mike

Tomo577,
I also have been trying to learn more about insert barrels. I would like to see if I could be happy with one, high quality, firearm like the Blaser B95. But I frequently use 22LR, hence the need for an insert. This website will take you to a German company that has made them for a long time, and I think might be the vendor for Krieghoff although I am not certain about that. Good luck in your search.
www.einstecklauf.de/KellerSimmann.html

Abolutely right,

K&S is the premium brand for insert barrels, with horrible prices but excellent quality.

Burkhard

Please don't forget that adding an insert barrel can be a very serious and difficult procedure, and most barrel length insert barrels require altering the ejectors of the shotgun.

I recently bought one of the K&S inserts for my 12 gauge over 30-06, so I could use it as a two calibered over and under rifle, and it ended up making me take it to a proffesional gunsmith to have it installed and the ejectors altered.

Insert barrels are very poular here in Germany in Drillings and Combo rifles, either SxS or O/U rifles.

There is a caveat. The vast majority are .22 Winchester Mangums (for Foxes and small game pests), followed by 22lrs and then the .224"s; .22 Hornet, .222 &.223 Remington, 5.6x50RM's and .228" for .22 Savage High Power which is extremely popular here as a Roe Deer cartridge caliber

I have also seen them advertised (although never in use in the field) in larger cartridges; 7x57R, 8x57R & 9.3x74R.

In these lager calibers, there are the caveats & fine print in their catalogs where they state that the manufaturer or installing gunsmith must observe pressure limits, suitability of the firearm for the overall insert concept, the rifle/shotgun itself AND the sometimes reductions/gunsmithing required to the shotgun/rifle firing pins to make everything work according to Hoyle. Every manufacturer states in their fine print that the smaller calibers/gauges are suitable for Drillings & O/U's and the larger caliber (above .224"-.227") inserts & conversions are normally ONLY suitable for OVER/UNER guns.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not a talented German gunsmith. I'm sure there are plenty of stout break opens in excellent condition that could digest all those listed above.

Frankonia & Kettner sell barrel inserts and sub-caliber devices for manufacturers as do most gunsmiths in Germany. The most widely advertised are from K&S, Zimmermann & Keppeler.

http://www.keppeler-te.de/

I actually think that as you are in the US, where all these things are a lot more free than in Europe that you could very easily have a gunsmith make one for you. Really!

An old take-off barrel in you chosen calibre just needs to have the breech end machined down to the slightly under same profile as the regular shell your shotgun is chambered for. Then turn a groove in it for a rubber O ring.

At the front of the barrel again have your gunsmith sweat on a disc just under your choke size and, again, a groove for a rubber O ring.

Job done! The only thing to be aware of is that your shotgun action is still just that, a SHOTGUN ACTION, so the cartridge you select needs to be of a moderate pressure.

The ejector problem is easily resolved. Just have sufficient of the "rim" of your barrel insert taken off so that there is none of it overhanging your extractor.

You will also need a small ramp shape area filed away so that you can use a screwdriver to lever out the fired case.

The problem with having just any old barrel cut to fit into a shotgun barrel is that you won't be able to adjust it to shoot to the same point that the main barrel shoots to. As long as you don't care how or where it shoots to that's fine, but if you want to shoot it where the bottom barrel (and the scope) are aimed at, you're just hoping that it accidently works.

That's why these insert barrels cost so much. Otherwise, you could just stick anything in there, and hope for the best.

I build a .22 Hornet insert for my drilling's 8 x 57 barrel. I use it for small game shooting while I am bird hunting with the 16 Ga. double barrels. I have had it for 25 years, and it still works. I machined a new adjustable front sight, and modified the rear sight to an adjustable peep sight, that still lays flat until selected.
WYLD

Heres an American fix. http://mcace.com

Stinger,

I just called Ace, and the 10" are now $101.00 shipped, and the 18" are $158.00, still...a good price.

I'm new here. I just posted an introduction in the Double Rifles forum. I've got an old Krieghoff .22 LR barrel insert for my 16 ga drilling. It's adjustable for point of impact so I can adjust it to hit where the sights for the 8x57IR barrel are set. Its extractor is energized by the shotgun barrel extractor. No modification to the drilling's extractor was required. I haven't seen a new one like this in over 20 years. I always wished I could find one in .22 WMR.

I work in Saudi and most gun related sites like http://mcace.com are blocked. Is the Ace adjustable for point of impact like my old Krieghoff? What calibers are available to fit a 16 ga?

I have a set of Ace inserts. They are not adujustable for POI. They slip into the host tube. They are held in place with an O ring.

There is no extractor. So you have to pick the shell out by hand, if you can. Failing that you have to remove the insert and use a rod or stick to get the shell out.

You can not be sure that they will shoot to the same POI if you take them out and reinsert them.

To fool around they are ok. I would not depende on them for serious hunting. But that is me.

Pete

They can be adjusted by turning them. They are not centered exactly for just that reason. You can set them for windage and use hold over/under to shoot on target. Just make a small witness mark in the extractor at the right regulation, and they go back to zero when re-inserted.

quote:

Originally posted by Brazos Jack:
I work in Saudi and most gun related sites like http://mcace.com are blocked. What calibers are available to fit a 16 ga?

22 LR
22 Mag
22 Hornet
218 Bee
32-20
32 ACP
32 H & R
32 S & W
30 Luger
30 Mauser
30-40 Krag
7.62x39 (US made Ammo only!)
380 ACP
9 mm Luger
38 Special
375 Win
410 Shotgun
44 Special
444 Marlin
45 ACP
45 Long Colt
45-70

I have a 6 inch 22 rimfire in 44 magnum Contender insert barrel (purchased from Harry Owen, the original proprietor) that works as advertised. The 22 lr in 22 magnum adapters also bought from Harry worked okay. A 22 lr in 22 hornet cartridge adapter of more recent production has been a disappointment. As others have mentioned the insert barrels are simple and reasonably priced but not adjustable per se.

Let us know whenever you need us to hoover website details for you.

the germans make some really neat inserts for 16 ga and they are adjustable for poi and an be regulated to your scope. the 22 savage Hi Power is still a popular rod deer cartridge. they make inserts in virtually any caliber.

but the price is dear ! 600 euro or so.

and now the new german f
gun laws treat them as if they were a complete firearm ! sig heil and all that rot !

quote:

the germans make some really neat inserts for 16 ga and they are adjustable for poi and an be regulated to your scope. the 22 savage Hi Power is still a popular rod deer cartridge. they make inserts in virtually any caliber.

but the price is dear ! 600 euro or so.

and now the new german f
gun laws treat them as if they were a complete firearm ! sig heil and all that rot !


TOMO577
DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY

Ive got an old Krieghoff unit like you describe in .22 LR x 16 ga. I would like to find another in .22 Rimfire Magnum

Brazos Jack