Mark Young posted a picture of a beautiful/mature trophy lion recently taken in the Save Valley Conservancy. In the thread, Jdollar commented on my post, asking how could I determine the age of the lion in the photograph. Then, Bwanamich commented on a recent hunt report, asking about how the use or potential use of a particular lion could play into the education needed for both client and PH. Fellow AR members GerryB and Ledvm, suggested a thread regarding this info, so I thought I would try to help. Looking across the lion hunting industry as a whole, its very obvious that both client and PH could definitely benefit from some age determination education, as well as a better understanding of the necessity for harvesting only age appropriate trophies.

So, I wanted to try and give some examples of known aged lions, unknown aged lions that are mature, and what criteria can be used to determine that age, along with unknown aged lions that are immature, and what criteria can be used to determine that as well. Second, I wanted to address some of the concerns, or lack there of, as it pertains to harvesting only MATURE lions. Plus address some of the questions, that have been posed to us (LCTF) by PH's as of late.

Lastly, I want to give some good news regarding the LCTF and some recent headway made towards the preservation of the lion in Zambia.

Below is a link to the thread posted by Mr. Young, so you can see the picture of the lion in question.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/7171011751

MY FIRST COMMENT:
Mark - That is actually a beautiful, nice looking, and most importantly, FULLY MATURE lion trophy!
Excellent job, congrats to you, your client and the PH. That's what I call, leading by example!

JDOLLAR'S FIRST COMMENT TO ME:
just curious- how can you tell from looking at a single picture that it is a 6 plus year old lion? other than mane hair length/size, there are no other age characteristics visible and size perspective compared to the 2 guys is iffy at best in the posted photo. you are probably right and i would have shot the beast in a heartbeat but for the life of me, i can't see what makes him a 6 plus year old lion and therefore a non pride male.

MY COMMENT BACK TO JDOLLAR:
Jdollar - Good question! Andrew's post below explains it pretty well. Without an actual age verification test, no one can say for certain the lion's age. Fact is, science can only determine a lion's age to within 10 months of what could be the ACTUAL age.

But without question, this lion has all the tell-tale signs of maturity. Just visually compare him to a couple of the other recent lions posted, and you will easily see the difference. Note the difference in body size, and I don't mean head to tail, or weight, I mean body maturity. Like comparing a teenage man vs a 35 yr old man, same differences can be seen with lions. He has thick/mature shoulders, a large head, thick - well developed mane, no evidence of spots (note the faint spots still visable on a couple of the other lions posted), and he has also developed that tawny/darker color in his body. Note the difference between the young lions that have that yellow/pale color. And finally, experience tells me and Andrew this lion is mature. Likely in that 6 yr old range, give or take, and a fine looking specimen that I would be happy to hunt.

No, I cannot be 100% certain this lion is 6 plus, but he's definitely 5-7 yrs old, mature, and a fine trophy to harvest. Obviously I cannot comment on his potential "pride male" status, as I was not there. I am simply commenting on his maturity. Also, keep two things in mind. Just because a male lion is holding a pride, does not necessarily make him an un-acceptable target. If one can verify that pride does NOT have dependent cubs, then it could be ok to shoot the lion. Or for example, perhaps the PH knows that a group of 3 males (likely brothers) all hold the pride together. It might/could be acceptable to shoot one of the male lions. Lastly, just because a lion is 6 plus, does not mean he cannot still hold a pride. It all depends on how tough he is, and what challengers are trying to push him out. 6 yr plus is simply a good age limit/rule of thumb to follow.

LOOKING AT LIONS!

So, with that little bit of explanation lets look at some lions and start to determine what it is that we need to look for when determining a lion's likely/potential maturity status. Fact is, clients as well as hunters must start doing their utmost best to recognize and harvest only mature/5 yr old plus lions if we expect to have a continued opportunity to hunt lion well into the future.

PICTURE 1: A big/mature lion with a mohawk mane. Notice his mane color! Although his mane is not well developed (Which can be a genetic trait or geographically based to some degree) you can see that most, not all, but most lions as they become mature, do get "color" in their mane (brown/ginger/black, even red), but rarely do they stay yellow/blonde. Yellow/blonde is usually a clear indication of a "young" lion. Notice the size of his body/head, and the darker/tawny colored body (VERY IMPORTANT), compared to several of the other lions posted lately, you can clearly see their body color as very yellow/pale. All very good indicators of age. Lions don't have to have a huge/full mane to be mature, but they do have to have age. Exactly why I put this picture in here. This lion had a 26 3/4" skul, measured 10' 5" nose to tail, and his teeth were in bad shape. I am sitting right against the lion, not 5 feet behind it! Fact was, my PH who I greatly enjoy hunting with, was from Botswana and had not hunted very many lions. His first reaction upon seeing this lion was, "he's young". I immediately said BS my boy, that's an old lion! After studying him for 5 minutes he agreed. We actually watched/filmed and checked him several times, for 7 days before shooting him. I would guess he was 8-9 yrs old, and I actually think we did him a favor! This lion is from Tanzania - Kilombero.


PICTURE 2: Some folks say, most lions in Zim don't produce manes like Tanzania or Zambia! Really?? Well, I guess this lion didn't get that memo. Again, see his body size, obvious mane development and very important again is the body color. Mature lions, lion of 5-9 yrd old plus, simply do NOT have pale/yellow bodies. Not every lion in Zimbabwe will grow a mane like this one, but if they are NOT allowed to reach maturity, you can bet they will NEVER grow a mane like this. I weighed this lion at 489lb with a 26.5" skull. This lion is from Zimbabwe - Gwaii Valley


PICTURE 3: The lion below is a great example of "size", in relation to maturity. Fact is, a 3.5 - 4 yr old lion can get a long/biggish type body. Just like some teenagers can be 6'2", but rarely do they have the physicality of a mature man. So just to say a lion is "big", is not solely indicitive of maturity. But notice on this lion, the size of his head/shoulder area, and the "mass", that represents his maturity. His forearm/shoulder area too, massive!! This lion is from Zambia - Kafue, and without any question, the largest bodied lion I have ever shot!


PICTURE 4: Notice this lion's bib, and the huge amount of hair, along with the "color"! Now, think back to AR's own "LionHunter", and his big (mature) maneless Zambian Lion. When a lion is maneless, he's maneless, period! But, a young lion that is starting to, and will develop a good mane, always begins his mane development with his "bib". When you see a lion starting to get decent/good mane development in his bib, yet mainly yellow/blonde hair, and spotty, narrow, or mohawk looking deveelopment on his head/shoulders, and again, yellow/blonde color, these are ALL clear indications of an immature lion! Zambia - Kafue


PICTURE 5: A lion that is genetically blessed to grow a full mane, will almost always develop hair in and around the ears/top of head as they reach full maturity. Like the lion pictured below. But again, when you see a lion with his bib developing, mohawk or narrow/thin mane across the head/shoulders, yellow/blonde mane color, and maneless around the ear/top of head area, its once again a clear indication of a young/immature lion.
Botswana

PICTURE 6: Zimbabwe is, and always has been a good place for lion. The picture below, picture #2 above, and the pic posted by Mark Young, are just a couple of examples of what lion genetics and "mane development" possibilities exist, throughout Zimbabwe. If, and only if, the lion is allowed to reach full maturity. But for lions to reach that full maturity, it takes cooperation between the client and the PH. It takes an educated/dedicated PH to resist the pressures of the client's desire to "get one", versus the obligation to properly manage the lion. And it takes a client that understands that proper lion management is more important than "getting one", despite the cost of the hunt. Only by working together can both parties reach the common goal of combining lion hunting, with the practice of good lion management. Zimbabwe - Save Valley


PICTURES 7 & 8: AR's own "LionHunter" - he stole my handle by the way, was kind enough to allow me to use his trophy photos for the purpose of this exercise. THANKS MIKE! This lion is a wonderful example of a largely maneless male, but one that is an older/mature lion, and a very acceptable trophy to take. When looking at a male like this, one where his lack of outstanding mane doesn't jump out at you, it becomes even more evident when you are looking at/comparing young (2-4) yr old males, with ones that are obviously 5 - 9 yrs old. Need I really add comment here? The pictures speak for themselves. WHAT I WOULD LIKE AR MEMBERS TO DO, IS TO LOOK AT THIS LION AND POST YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT WHAT STANDS OUT TO YOU? HOW OLD DO YOU THINK HE IS, AND WHY???



PICTURES 9 - 16: These all represent lions that without any question are mature/acceptable trophies! Again, look at and study the characteristics of them compared to several of the immature lions posted on AR in the past 2 months. I think you will all start to see the "obvious", or what I like to call "obvious", differences.









One thing you will never see on MATURE male lions, are the faint "spots" along the lower leg/hip area on the lion. Look closely at a particular lion, or pictures of lion trophies. If you see these faint "spots", you know he's still an immature cat! These too can be seen on several of the recent lion trophies.

KNOWN AGE LIONS: None of the lions pictured above have been scientifically aged, at least not to my knowledge. However, the trophies below have been age verified, so lets have a look.

PICTURE 17: Aged at approximately 4! Yep, that's right 4. That surprised both me and Andrew, as I thought for sure he was 5, possibly 6. Obviously an indication of the great genetics in Zambia's Kafue region. And a wonderful example of the obvious signs of a "maturing" lion, one that looks very close, versus the ones that are obviously NOT. A tough break on this one, but certainly not a bad call by the PH.


Picture 18: Aged at approximately 5 yrs old. This lion here is a good example of why age based restrictions/laws pertaining to lion hunting are needed, but also need to allow for a reasonable margin of error. This cat has all of the signs/indications of a mature lion, and the PH obviously did the best he could to determine this was a mature lion. Its a very acceptable trophy, and all parties should be proud!


Picture 19: Aged at approximately 6 yrs old. Richard Bell-Cross and I knew for certain this was a mature lion, that was never an issue for us. Interestingly though, nothing about this lion says huge/giant trophy! His mane is not exceptional, or comparable to many of the other 6 yr old lions from the Kafue. But, you will still notice the mature characteristics of this lion. Mainly body & mane color - no longer that pale/yellow colored body, and same for the mane frankly. He was really a good looking red head. Also note, he has filled in on the top of his head, and pretty much all around his ears, etc. Not a huge maned lion, but a good trophy for sure.


Picture 20: Aged at 6 plus, ya no kidding! Need I really comment on this one? What a magnificent lion, period! Again, a fabulous Kafue lion. My favorite place in all of Africa to hunt.



IMMATURE LIONS:

Unfortunately I just don't have many pics of immature lions, but these are courtesy of Andrew Baldry, and will work for this discussion.

Picture 21: Although certainly not a cub, this lion could benefit from another 2 yrs in the field. A more slender body, lighter in color, under-developed mane, and look closely at his lower left left. Faint spots can still be seen. My guess, he's 4 yrs old.


Picture 22: I believe this is the same lion. Not as easy as some to see the immaturity, but certainly the bald patches on top of his head/ears are one indicator. He just has that young, boyish looking face too. As I mention, he's not a cub, but he's no 6 yr old lion at all.


Picture 23: One more time, not an obviously young cat at first glance, but in fact, he's way to young to be shot. Not the best body picture, but one see he just has that scrawny look. Certainly has a narrow/long and smallish looking head. And his mane, although getting good color, his thin and not filled in yet. A beautiful looking 4 yr old, that I hope to see in 2013.



QUESTIONS/CONCERNS & INFO:

1. Speaking of Immature Lions, this question was just raised on AR by ozhunter. "So, is it ok to take a 3-4 yr old lion since it is not a pride-holder yet?"

Dr. Easter replied with a very good answer, and certainly a fact.
2-4 yr old lions live in small coalitions. Like prides...they need each other to hunt and feed themselves. Kill one out of a pair...the other likely will die as well. Without these strong young coalitions...there are no pride male replacements. EXCELLENT POINT DOC!


2. Again, another excellent question by ozhunter, and it relates directly to the question above. ozhunter writes, "I've seen plenty of single young Nomads that don't seem to hold a pride yet. Surly taking one of them would have less consequences than the taking of an old pride male?"

Dr. Easter's reply.
"Most male lions or coalitions hold prides only 2-3 years...~5-7 years of age. By 7...the male lions reproductive capacity has begun to decline."

So, if we are shooting the young males, and older males cannot continue to breed, who's breeding the females? These 3-4 yr old males must be allowed to mature, and continue the cycle of life as they were intended to do. Every scientific lion expert agrees, young male lions must be allowed to mature, to continue the intended balance as closely as possible.


FOLKS - BELOW IS EMAIL COMMS THE LCTF HAD RECENTLY WITH SEVERAL PH'S, TO INCLUDE THEIR QUESTIONS AND OUR RESPONSES. I WILL LEAVE OUT THERE NAMES FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

"LCTF SPEAKING HERE"
GENTLEMEN: This message is in regards to the recent Lion Hunts in Zimbabwe, and a response to the questions put forth by Mr. PH. Martin Pieters was kind enough to forward this through to me, and I appreciate his help. I thank everyone for their potential input, and we look forward to hearing from you all. I will respond below.

Aaron

"MARTIN PIETERS HERE"
Aaron, Just got back into town, met with several top PH's, basically their retort to the e-mail against Mr. PH was:

Tanzania is the only country with a legal law on age
Zimbabwe has no law on age limits
The quota was legal and the PH is licensed, paperwork was correct
The client is happy
The trophy is exportable

Basically, the PH did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law and made his client happy. Can anyone answer that?
Regards
Martin

"MY RESPONSE ON BEHALF OF THE LCTF"
Mr. PH'S: Gentlemen, let me introduce myself to those of you who do not know me, and tell you a bit about the charitable organization I have co-founded with Dr. Lane Easter. With support and cooperation from many hunters, PH's, hunting operators and hunting organizations such as DSC, we have established the LION CONSERVATION TASK FORCE (LCTF). We are a group of concerned American Sportsman, who's only goal is the longevity/protection of the African Lion, and the most cherished sport of all, hunting the African Lion! Please know from the start that I am 100% in your corner! I will fight for you, your profession, and the African Hunting industry, until the day I've gone to the happy hunting grounds above. I've spent the past 16 yrs focused solely on hunting the Lion, which I have done personally, many times, in many different places. I too hold a PH license in Tanzania, and I too have been a hunting guide for the past 19 yrs. The LCTF has some very close relationships with not only many in the hunting industry, but several of the leading Scientific Experts, specializing in the African Lion, and the important conservation issues facing the lion at this very moment.

In case you are not aware, let me tell you about one of, if not the biggest issue facing the Lion in the immediate future. Numerous Animal Rights Groups here in the U.S. have put forth a formal petition to the USF&WS and the U.S. Interior Department, asking them to uplist the African Lion to "Endangered Species" status! The petition is on the desk of the U.S. Interior Secretary, Mr. Ken Salazar, at this very moment. Not to mention, Mr. John Jackson from Conservation Force, has for the past 18 months been fighting dilligently against the potential CITES uplisting of the Lion to Appendix 1. Gentlemen, both of these potential changes would have devastating results to much of the African Hunting industry, should either of them come to pass. Either one would make the importation of the AFRICAN LION into the U.S., illegal. Considering that roughly 60% of the lions exported from the African continent each year are bound for U.S. soil, this would spell disaster for many of those hunting operators that count on Lion hunting, and the revenue it provides. I am certain as hunting operators yourselves, you can appreciate the concern!

Thus, bringing us back to the focus of the LCTF and the good we hope to accomplish on behalf of the African Lion, all of Africa's wildlife, and the African Hunting industry, which includes you guys as well. The ONLY way to completely squash the potential hurdles listed above, is for ALL of us associated with hunting the African Lion, to make lion conservation, the number one goal! The biggest hope we have of beating the ESA listing, is for the scientific community, those that study and are considered "experts" of the African Lion, to sign on the dotted line, in support of lion hunting as a continued conservation tool. Now look, regardless of what we all think of these "lion experts", and their science. The USF&WS, CITES, the E.U., and the U.S. interior Department, absolutely listen to and recognize their "expertise", as FACT. Making it vitally important that we as hunters garner their support now, and in the future, as it pertains to continued lion hunting efforts. The LCTF is currently advising, working, and communicating with, Dr. Craig Packer, Dr. Colleen Begg (Niassa Carnivore Project), Dr. Paula White (Zambian Lion Project) Dr. Luke Hunter (Panthera), and others. All of whom are widely considered "experts" regarding the African Lion. Problem is, many of these scientists are extremely frustrated with the hunting community, and their number one complaint is the same thing time after time, hunters and their PH's are still SHOOTING YOUNG/IMMATURE LIONS! Thus, not following or practicing good lion management/ethical hunting practices. Fact is, in some cases they are right! Unfortunately, the two lions posted on AR in the past few days, one shot in Riverside and the other shot in Dande, are both prime examples of their biggest complaint. Despite what some might say, or try to say, its clearly obvious to anyone with any lion experience, that both of these lions are 3-4 yrs old, maximum. A far cry from the optimal harvest age of 6 yrs old plus, and in the eyes of the scientific community, a blatant disregard for the management of the African Lion. I truly believe that most of the hunting community has their heads in the sand, as it pertains to the problem, and the publicity that lion hunting is garnering at the moment. It took only 48 hrs for me to receive 2 different emails from the scientific community, asking me for my opinion as it pertained to the "young" lion shot in Riverside. I'm sure I will have some regarding the Dande lion within 2-3 days, and frankly as part of the LCTF, I am running out of answers. The statement I get each and every time from the scientific community is this - "Aaron we want to support, and continue to try to believe in, lion hunting as a necessary lion management tool. But when you guys continue to shoot these young lions, its harder and harder for us to continue to lend our support, period!" Gentlemen, I cannot even begin to tell you how important the support of the scientific community is. Without their support, and god forbid they were to actually lobby against us, we would be screwed!!!! Guys, as a fellow hunter, PH, guide and lion lover, I am begging you, this must stop!!!

Mr. PH, looking at your questions above, I will happily respond with my opinions/concerns.

1. You are correct, currently Tanzania is the only country with a 6 yr old age minimum as a law. Truth is, I find it unfortunate that it took a law making it illegal to shoot immature lions in the first place. But, proof positive that pressure from the outside communities finally wore out those in charge, to the point that the law was finally implemented. However, if the vast majority of Tanzania PH's were harvesting only MATURE lions in the first place, and following good lion management practices as well, the law would have never been necessary, or implemented. Frankly, if PH's for the most part would adhere to and follow the mature only/6 yr old guideline, quotas wouldn't be necessary either. But again, since many have chosen to do otherwise, a law has now become necessary. Proof positive that if we cannot/will not police ourselves, others will do it for us. Just as in the case of the dreadfully possible ESA listing of the lion.

2. Yep, I agree that no laws were broken, the trophy is exportable, the client is happy, I'm sure the paperwork is right, and the PH is certainly licensed. I don't think any of those issues were ever raised in the first place, at least not by us. I do however find in very unfortunate that the client was led to believe that his lion was 5-6 yrs old? That's obviously not true! But more importantly, the same arguments could be said as they pertained to Tanzania. Once again, they too were finally pressured into enacting the 6 yr old law. Simply because too many PH's could not restrain either the client or themselves, from continually shooting young/immature lions! If we cannot police ourselves, others will do it for us. Legal, as it pertains to such a fragile issue, doesn't make it right. Especially when reading a quote below, directly from the Zimbabwe Professional Hunters - Code of Ethics. Very fitting, as it speaks directly to the issue at hand, wouldn't you agree?

The following extracts are from the Zimbabwe Code of Ethics, set for professional hunters.


"His code demands that he shoot only a fully mature specimen and he knows that the removal from the herd of such an animal, almost always a bull or buck beyond breeding age, benefits others of the species in the area. But the public will no longer tolerate the unethical hunter and as long as he is allowed to remain on the scene, ethical sportsmen will suffer by association.
Conservation laws and hunting ethics are two sides of the same coin. Do away with either and we will do away with hunting."

3. Sir, as for the lion shot on the Boddington Video, I agree with you, it should have never been shot. But, since when does two wrongs make a right? This is exactly why the LCTF has included this type of effort in our fight for the lion, and the African Hunting Industry. Its important for ALL PH/Outfitters to follow ethical lion hunting practices, and simply because someone else is NOT doing so, shouldn't give Carte Blanche for others to do the same. Again, if these sort of practices were less common across Africa. Tanzania would not likely have been forced into implementing a LAW telling PH's what to do.

Mr. PH and others, guys please understand where my care and concern is coming from. I'm not after anyone for some personal vandetta, or because I have nothing better to do. I, along with members of the LCTF, and our supporters, are doing this because we have a deep care/concern for all that is the African Lion, including hunting.

Guys, here's the facts. The Lion is certainly a THREATENED species. By no means an endangered one as many outside forces would like to have the un-informed public believe. But its a management issue that all of us need to take very seriously. Even though many of us are from different continents, and different countries within Africa, we are all effected by the actions of eachother. As members of the fraternity of PH's all across Africa, you guys have the ultimate responsibility of caring for the game, protecting the game, and adhering to sound game management practices. Along with insisting and managing your clients to understand and do the same. When considering the continued bad actions of some PH's who are still shooting young lions, the non-hunting and scientific communities are not separating countries, hunting areas, outfitters or even the PH's. They are simply lumping us ALL into the same catagory, and using the images on the internet, brochures, ads and videos, of young/immature lion trophies, as supporting evidence in their fight to ban lion hunting, uplist the Lion to the ESA and CITES Appendix 1. In other words, we are all responsible for eachother, each and every one of us, in each and every country of eastern/southern Africa. Imagine for a moment if you will, that lion hunting was either eliminated in Tanzania, or the ESA listing eliminated the importation of lions into the U.S. This would have a crippling effect on the entire Tanzania hunting industry, to the extent of which could not be imagined, until experienced. As you guys likely know, 99% of the outfitters in Tanzania, could NOT withstand the loss of lion hunting, and still remain in business. Period, end of story! Now, not only do the operators/PH's rely on the Tanzanian hunting industry for their livelihoods, but imagine the devastating effects to Tanzania's wildlife, if many of these operators were no longer able to remain in business. In many areas/hunting blocks throughout Tanzania, hunting operators are the only line of defense against human encroachment, cattle grazing, and the dreaded poaching activities that we all despise. These unfortunate events would be un-stoppable, without the ability of area outfitters to pay for and administer the programs that halt the progress of these horrible circumstances. Secondly, this exact same scenario would repeat itself throughout Zambia as well, just for example. The loss of lion hunting, or lion importation into the U.S., will have effects way beyond what most are really considering. That gentlemen, is really what the LCTF is trying to get across to PH's, outfitters and the clients. We truly believe the potentially negative effects of each and every young lion shot, is NOT being fully considered by those doing it. If Lion Hunting is halted across southern/eastern Africa, or the ESA/CITES uplistings comes to pass, it won't matter a damn bit, if the lion was legal, the client was happy, the PH was licensed, or if the paperwork was in order. Because, there won't be any lion hunting paperwork to worry about! Thus, I am asking each and every PH to please consider their actions before hand, and please consider that their actions are and will potentially effect ALL OF US. In the eyes of the non-hunters, the scientists, and the organizations such CITES, USFWS, the E.U., and the U.S. Interior Department, we are all floating in the same boat. We are all hunters, we are all hunting lion, and we are all partaking in the same poor lion hunting practices/conservation. Thus I implore all of you, please guys, lets come together, lobby for, and actively participate in the very best lion hunting conservation practices we possibly can. As a collective group, united as one, we can bring change to the entire lion hunting industry, and ensure we all have the incredible sport of lion hunting, long into the future!

Lastly, what's the answer you ask? Well, I cannot say I have all the answers, but certainly as a group, we (LCTF) do have some suggestions for all. First and foremost, the shooting of 2-4 yr old lions must come to an end, immediately!! Period, end of story, it cannot and will not be tolerated any longer. Second, as a collective group we should work towards the implementation of and adherence to, new age based rules/regulations when lion hunting. Dr. Colleen Begg has proved with resounding success, that this can and does work. Her implementation of the Niassa Carnivore Project (Mozambique) and the points assessment/age based rule, has completely changed the lion dynamics throughout the Niassa reserve. When she began the project in 2004, only 25% of the lions harvested by hunters were 6 yrs old, or older. Now, only 6-7 yrs later, an incredible 75% of the lions harvested are 6 plus yrs old. She has stated publically, that lion hunting itself, is NO LONGER a detriment to the Niassa's lion population. Its this kind of success, and this kind of support, we need from the likes of Dr. Begg, as it pertains to lion hunting all across Africa. Fact is though, as long as lions like the two we are talking about here, are shot. We can and will NEVER get the support of any of the important players in the game. Without such support, our efforts will all eventually die in vein.

Mr. PH, I totally realize you sir were not the PH on the hunt, but you obviously recognize the fact that the lion in question is definitely too young. If not, your argument for its harvest would have stated its old/mature, and nothing else would have needed to be said. Arguing the obvious, but failing to lobby for or adhere to change, will assuredly kill the lion and all lion hunting sooner or later. So I ask all of you as a fellow lion hunter, please gents, lets be the leaders in the change, and set an example for all others to follow. Lets lobby for age based lion hunting regulations, and lets avoid shooting young lions at ALL COSTS. Failure to do so, is only the beginning to the eventual end! I would hate to see that for all of us, the lion and all of Africa's wildlife.

THE ABOVE WAS THE RESPONSE TO THE ZIM PH'S ON BEHALF OF THE LCTF!


LASTLY - I RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE JUST BELOW FROM ANDREW BALDRY - AR's FAIRGAME! I WAS PROUD TO HEAR THIS, AND HAPPY TO SEE THAT SOME OF OUR EFFORTS ARE STARTING TO MAKE PEOPLE LISTEN/CHANGE.

ANDREW BALDRY'S MESSAGE

"Aaron,

You might be interested to know that the publication of a young Lion recently shot in Zambia (and currently we to have no age policy), has caused a bit of a stir here and abroad. It would seem that the aging of all skulls will now be mandatory (check with Paula White) before export and there is talk of age restrictions and penalties. Note our Lion quota has been reduced twice in two years and last year there was a call to ban Lion hunting in this country. If that were to happen then other countries will probably follow suit.


Thanks to LCTF a majority of our PH's and Operators are now having to realize that the taking of young Lion will not be tolerated internationally and we are currently implementing are own restrictions.

I agree that Mr. PH was wrong to misinform his client but then again he may have little idea what to look for in a mature Lion. Personally I think that the registered Zim PH's could enforce restrictions and a policy of their own. The conservation of this specie falls squarely in the hands of the PH. All LCTF is asking is that we unify in the protection of our Lions and do our best not to take out young or actively breeding males.

Cheers

Andrew


FOLKS - HERE'S THE REAL SKINNY! AS A COLLECTIVE GROUP, HUNTERS & PH'S, WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR ETHICAL HUNTING CONSERVATION. HUNTERS TOO, MUST BECOME EDUCATED BEFORE HEADING INTO THE FIELD IN PURSUIT OF SIMBA. IF BOTH PH & HUNTER ARE ALWAYS EDUCATED AND IN AGREEMENT, THEN THE LIKELIHOOD OF THESE PROBLEMS CONTINUING, IS MINIMAL. IF WE DO NOT CLEAN UP OUR ACT AS A CLEECTIVE GROUP, OTHERS WILL DO IT FOR US. AND THEIR IDEA OF CLEAN-UP IS A WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT THAN OURS! LETS WORK TOGETHER AND SOLVE THIS PROBLEM! LETS DO IT FOR THE LION, THE REST OF AFRICA'S WILDLIFE, THE FOLKS IN THE AFRICAN HUNTING INDUSTRY WHO RELY ON THE HUNTING BIZ TO SURVIVE, AND LASTLY, LETS DO IT FOR THE NEXT GENERATION OF FUTURE HUNTERS. DON'T YOU WANT YOUR KIDS OR GRANDKIDS TO SEE, AND TO HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES AS YOU DO RIGHT NOW? I CERTAINLY HOPE SO!!!


Sincerely,

Great write up .

Aaron,

The LCTF might consider sponsoring training classes for PHs in the various countries on how to age lions in the field and why it is important to restrain from shooting young lions. Also to push the various Gov agencies responsible for wildlife Management to include such training in new PH training tests and require all PHs to attend one of the classes to be certified to hunt lion.

465H&H

Walt,
Excellent thought and that is exactly what is on our agenda!

Oh...BTW...great post Aaron!!!

Thank you Aaron, Very informative, I have learned a lot from all of you here on AR.

Best regards
Aziz

I think everyone needs to really pay attention to Aaron's post. We(LCTF) have been working very hard to help get the people informed on how close it is to becoming reality that lions will be not allowed into the US. When someone post a hunt report with an immature lion, that post is in the hands of the antis within one day and they use it to show hunters simply do not care. We have to set them straight that we do care and we will police ourselves. The argument that it is legal is just way off base and will cause the lion to uplisted and not exportable to the US. It came very close to that a few weeks ago.Mistakes will be made and the worst thing we can do is defend that mistake, we need to acknowledge the mistake and take steps to keep them ftom happening. Will we stop them all, NO but make them the exception instead of the rule.
This thread is NOT aimed at the client that does not have the ability to judge the lion in the field but the PH who should do the RIGHT thing not just the legal thing. We as clients can study lions by reading the books on aging lions in the field and telling your outfitter that you will only shoot a mature lion.Most of the time the client has booked way in advance and has the time to become familiar with the aging process.This will mean more people will not get a lion but those that do it will be a great trophy.There is no shame in going on a good lion hunt and coming home and telling everyone you saw lions but nothing worthy of being shot. Money seems to be our enemy in this task of protecting the lion, we need it for education and it hurts for someone to spend big bucks and come home without your lion but we need to do this to keep lion hunting open.
Thanks Aaron and Lane for all of your hard work and I hope we can really do some good.

This is a Luwangwa lion that was aged by a tooth at 11 years old. Notice his scared face, main, color (blue cast) and his protruding spine.

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
This is a Luwangwa lion that was aged by a tooth at 11 years old. Notice his scared face, main, color (blue cast) and his protruding spine.

Never heard it called "blue cast", what exactly are you referring to? Do you mean like a mature eland is called a "blue bull"?

The spine showing, ya that's very interesting!! Even his hips look sunken? I totally believe the estimated age, he's obviously VERY old. Interesting charcteristic I see alot in Luangwa lions is the mane just directly behind the ear, often does not fill in.

Clearly this is a mature lion, and a fine trophy. When did you shoot this lion? You should be very proud. Thanks for posting it, and congratulations!

quote:

that was aged by a tooth at 11 years old.

Just a point of clarification while we are on the subject...it would be hard to call a lion exactly 11 based on x-ray and physical exam of tooth based on what we know now. You could say that he is 7 or greater and possibly say he is likely a few years older than 7 but you really can't say he is exactly 11. Just a small point that I thought we should mention in passing.

Lions in captivity have been known to live up to and maybe slightly past 15 yrs. An old wild lion would be over 8 years...probably not that many over 10 live in the wild. Again...just a point of clarification while we are on the subject. I am not saying he is not 11 and is a very fine trophy.

Aaron, he was shot in October of 2006. By "blue cast", I mean there was a very light blue/gray shade to his hide.

Lane, I'm sure your right, I'm just repeating what the outfitter said, based upon the report from the women conducting an area wide study.

quote:

Lane, I'm sure your right, I'm just repeating what the outfitter said, based upon the report from the women conducting an area wide study.

Yessir...and I was just using the point for discussion sake. Thank you for the post and a fine trophy!

Did you guys see the new forum "African Lions Hunting Management And Ecology"?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...s/a/frm/f/3311002751

quote:

Originally posted by gerryb:
There is no shame in going on a good lion hunt and coming home and telling everyone you saw lions but nothing worthy of being shot. Money seems to be our enemy in this task of protecting the lion, we need it for education and it hurts for someone to spend big bucks and come home without your lion but we need to do this to keep lion hunting open.

This is an excellent point, and unfortunately a necessary evil as it pertains to lion hunting/wildlife conservation. I have done 3 lion hunts, big dollar lion hunts, where I can home empty handed. The first was in Zambia's Zambezi Valley in the Chiawa GMA, in 2002. I did not see a single lion, in 15 days. The second was in Tanzania's Masailand in July 2004. I did see two young males (3 - 4 yrs old) We actually filmed them for about 10 minutes from only 45 yards away, and could have easily killed one of them. It was the 20th day of a 21-Day hunt, and the first lions we had seen. The thought of shooting one of them never crossed my mind! The third was in Zambia's Kafue region, in June 2007 wioth Richard Bell-Cross. We actually saw 14 lions on this 21 day hunt, including numerous males, but not one was a fully mature, trophy lion.

Yes, its very dissapointing to go lion hunting and not get one. But lion management/ethics were more important to us than shooting an immature lion, which we could have easily done. The client needs to learn the necessities of harvesting only mature lions, and insist to his PH that only old cats are shot. If the client is not aware of the lion issue, its up to the PH to be the boss! This is one thing I never understand when hearing some of the excuses from PH's, about why the 3 yr old lion is dead. Well, the client is happy! Ya, and if the PH is not either capable of, or willing to assert himself as the boss and implement proper lion management. Then he has no business operating as a licensed PH in the first place!

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
Aaron, he was shot in October of 2006. By "blue cast", I mean there was a very light blue/gray shade to his hide.

So he's a "blue hair"?

As for the new forum entitled "African Lions Hunting Management And Ecology", yes sir I have. Courtesy of AR's owner and suggested by Dr. easter, we will now have a platform designed specifically for the issues concerning the lion! Gents, thank you very much!!!!!!!!