Mokore Safaris just sent out a season update and the above lion was taken recently on the their area of the Save Valley Conservancy.

The clients in the pix are not my clients but I thought you folks might like to see another great lion from the Save.

Mark

Looks like the twin to one we saw there last year early one morning. Neil got the hunter on a nice one for sure.

Great looking Lion, I really want to hunt there sometime.

Man, The Save has really turned into a primo spot!!

That's a beauty!

Mark - That is actually a beautiful, nice looking, and most importantly, FULLY MATURE lion trophy!

Excellent job, congrats to you, your client and the PH. That's what I call, leading by example!

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Man, The Save has really turned into a primo spot!!

Your monster lion was from the Save, wasn't it?

- mike

Great Lion.
Who was the PH?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Mark - That is actually a beautiful, nice looking, and most importantly, FULLY MATURE lion trophy!

Excellent job, congrats to you, your client and the PH. That's what I call, leading by example!

just curious- how can you tell from looking at a single picture that it is a 6 plus year old lion? other than mane hair length/size, there are no other age characteristics visible and size perspective compared to the 2 guys is iffy at best in the posted photo. you are probably right and i would have shot the beast in a heartbeat but for the life of me, i can't see what makes him a 6 plus year old lion and therefore a non pride male.

Very nice lion.

Well done and he is a beauty. Congratulations to the Operator and especially the PH.

The Save has produced some excellent specimens in the last couple of years which is very encouraging.

jdollar,

This Lion has all the hallmarks of maturity. When Lions look like this they are hard to age and could be anywhere from 5 - 8, but he is very definitely not young. His body and head is thick set, he lacks the spot pattern of immaturity and his mane is dense and thickly matted. His nose has developed that roman look that indicates maturity in a number of species.

Overall he is a brute there is no PH on the continent who would have had to look twice at this Lion.

Wow! That is the lion of my dreams!

This is a real nice Simba. Congrats to all involved to bag this cat.

quote:

Your monster lion was from the Save, wasn't it?

yes, Senuko. My brother just shot a sod of a lion in Oct. there as well (his 2nd from the Save)

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Mark - That is actually a beautiful, nice looking, and most importantly, FULLY MATURE lion trophy!

Excellent job, congrats to you, your client and the PH. That's what I call, leading by example!

just curious- how can you tell from looking at a single picture that it is a 6 plus year old lion? other than mane hair length/size, there are no other age characteristics visible and size perspective compared to the 2 guys is iffy at best in the posted photo. you are probably right and i would have shot the beast in a heartbeat but for the life of me, i can't see what makes him a 6 plus year old lion and therefore a non pride male.

Jdollar - Good question! Andrew's post below explains it pretty well. Without an actual age verification test, no one can say for certain the lion's age. Fact is, science can only determine a lion's age to within 10 months of what could be the ACTUAL age.

But without question, this lion has all the tell-tale signs of maturity. Just visually compare him to a couple of the other recent lions posted, and you will easily see the difference. Note the difference in body size, and I don't mean head to tail, or weight, I mean body maturity. Like comparing a teenage man vs a 35 yr old man, same differences can be seen with lions. He has thick/mature shoulders, a large head, thick - well developed mane, no evidence of spots (note the faint spots still visable on a couple of the other lions posted), and he has also developed that tawny/darker color in his body. Note the difference between the young lions that have that yellow/pale color. And finally, experience tells me and Andrew this lion is mature. Likely in that 6 yr old range, give or take, and a fine looking specimen that I would be happy to hunt.

No, I cannot be 100% certain this lion is 6 plus, but he's definitely 5-7 yrs old, mature, and a fine trophy to harvest. Obviously I cannot comment on his potential "pride male" status, as I was not there. I am simply commenting on his maturity. Also, keep two things in mind. Just because a male lion is holding a pride, does not necessarily make him an un-acceptable target. If one can verify that pride does NOT have dependent cubs, then it could be ok to shoot the lion. Or for example, perhaps the PH knows that a group of 3 males (likely brothers) all hold the pride together. It might/could be acceptable to shoot one of the male lions. Lastly, just because a lion is 6 plus, does not mean he cannot still hold a pride. It all depends on how tough he is, and what challengers are trying to push him out. 6 yr plus is simply a good age limit/rule of thumb to follow.

Mark deserves credit for saying upfront that this was not his client.

looks like a champ

YES! A beautiful mature Lion! Well done to both hunter and PH (and outfitter & booking agent). Thanks for posting this, Mark.

quote:

Lastly, just because a lion is 6 plus, does not mean he cannot still hold a pride. It all depends on how tough he is, and what challengers are trying to push him out. 6 yr plus is simply a good age limit/rule of thumb to follow.

Most male lions or coalitions hold prides only 2-3 years...~5-7 years of age. By 7...the male lions reproductive capacity has begun to decline.

And yes...that lion is simply put into the 5-7 age range. Use this guide to get you started with guide-lines: http://www.cbs.umn.edu/eeb/lio...Lion_Aging_Guide.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
[
Most male lions or coalitions hold prides only 2-3 years...~5-7 years of age. By 7...the male lions reproductive capacity has begun to decline.

So does that mean a 3 to 4 year old Lion is OK to take because it should not hold a pride?

2-4's live in small coalitions. Like prides...they need each other to hunt and feed themselves. Kill one out of a pair...the other likely to die as well.

Without these strong young coalitions...there are no pride male replacements.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
2-4's live in small coalitions. Like prides...they need each other to hunt and feed themselves. Kill one out of a pair...the other likely to die as well.

Without these strong young coalitions...there are no pride male replacements.

There in lies another key element that many folks are simply not aware of! And why, education is the key for both the lion hunter and the PH.

I've seen plenty of single young Nomads that don't seem to hold a pride yet. Surly taking one of them would have less consequences than the taking of an old pride male?

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I've seen plenty of single young Nomads that don't seem to hold a pride yet. Surly taking one of them would have less consequences than the taking of an old pride male?

Are you making that assessment as fact, or just assuming? Certainly the scientific world disagrees with that!

See the quote above by Dr. Easter, regarding a lion's reproductive capabilities - VERY IMPORTANT!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I've seen plenty of single young Nomads that don't seem to hold a pride yet. Surly taking one of them would have less consequences than the taking of an old pride male?

OZ,
To even open a conversation on your above statement...you must define young (for me...young is <5) and old (for me...old is >7).

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I've seen plenty of single young Nomads that don't seem to hold a pride yet. Surly taking one of them would have less consequences than the taking of an old pride male?

If together as a coalition then they depend on each other. However some of these males are singular and can be of age. They just cannot breach a pride.

I have often seen two older males join up sometimes with a female in tow and fend for themselves.

I think the gist of the conservation issue is age and whilst we may on occasion take Lions which are considered borderline (4 plus) we should ignore anything younger then that. If you have to second guess a Lion then he not an aged trophy.

However this conservation strategy will reduce the number of Lion taken and there will be many who go home with out one. It is these sportsmen who should be compensated somewhat as a portion of their hard earned is going back in to preserve the specie.

It was Martin Pieters who recently offered Lion at a high trophy fee but low daily rate and for me this is the way to go. The hunter pays on success.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
However this conservation strategy will reduce the number of Lion taken and there will be many who go home with out one. It is these sportsmen who should be compensated somewhat as a portion of their hard earned is going back in to preserve the specie.

It was Martin Pieters who recently offered Lion at a high trophy fee but low daily rate and for me this is the way to go. The hunter pays on success.

Kudos to you Andrew! I know how important lion hunting income is for many safari outfits. You are putting your money where your mouth is, and offering a contribution towards the conservation goal. Probably a combination of hunter and outfit contributions might be the perfect compromise in case no shootable lion is found. On success, the high trophy fee settles matters.

It would not be first time, that hunters make a significant contribution to conservation.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I've seen plenty of single young Nomads that don't seem to hold a pride yet. Surly taking one of them would have less consequences than the taking of an old pride male?

If together as a coalition then they depend on each other. However some of these males are singular and can be of age. They just cannot breach a pride.

I have often seen two older males join up sometimes with a female in tow and fend for themselves.

I think the gist of the conservation issue is age and whilst we may on occasion take Lions which are considered borderline (4 plus) we should ignore anything younger then that. If you have to second guess a Lion then he not an aged trophy.

However this conservation strategy will reduce the number of Lion taken and there will be many who go home with out one. It is these sportsmen who should be compensated somewhat as a portion of their hard earned is going back in to preserve the specie.

It was Martin Pieters who recently offered Lion at a high trophy fee but low daily rate and for me this is the way to go. The hunter pays on success.

Cheers mate.