The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Conservation African Lions Hunting Management And Ecology Craig PackerGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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the fact is all of our good intentions will get us only safaris that do not include lions. If uplisted , while that will hurt us that want a trophy lion it will hurt all the operators and the lions way more. | |||
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You guy's might wanna go back and edit these posts just over a year ago; Originally posted by ledvm: quote: Wildlife biologist Craig Packer says for lions to survive, parks must be fenced and heavily guarded-perhaps by the United Nations". Packer is scientifically smart but he is a far-left winged socialist. He is one of the reasons I have worked hard to promote TAMU's research as they are NOT. I would not let the UN guard my outhouse. In my opinion...the UN is one of the scourges of Africa and especially its wildlife. I have found UN officials to be arrogant ass-holes...to put it politiely! Did any of you watch the Documentery on TGTS anti-poaching project??? They reckoned UN camps were hotbeds for selling bush-meat. The formation of the UN has been one of the great debacles of world history. Guard the wildlife...hell...the most dangerous part of my last trip to Africa was dodging the F@*&ing UN vehicles as they tried to run you off the road. Craig Packer and UN => Plus, notice one of the main things the site is asking for, MONEY!!! That's because SCI & Conservation Force are no longer funding Packer's way. Funny how he jumped ship so quickly, once the money ran out???? Do gooders will believe anything, especially if Nat Geo says so. To any person with a lick of sense, and a bit of knowledge about his past work history, his credibility should count for nothing! He's just following the money, nothing more!!! Aaron Neilson From here; http://forums.accuratereloadin...001062331#3001062331 Someone may do a search here...... | |||
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The bottom line is that I have been a staunch critic of many things Craig Packer has said and done. But here are two key ponits: 1) He recognizes a need for sport hunting...a good thing. 2) He is going to have a big say-so in the ESA listing. So yes...we went to him to listen to what he has to say. And some of what he says is good for both the lion and hunting. Some I disagree with like the above quote about fencing the parks and utilizing the UN...that is just plain stupid. TGTS and Robin Hurt disagree with the above as well. But they adhere to his lion conservation tactics ans his science in the management of their blocks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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so one of the founding members of the foundation leaving soon to go kill lion#19 is showing them "we" are cooperating? frankly i hope he is successful but if you think that the "scientific" community/ government officials are going to see that as anything but ridiculous , well- good luck. when 1 hunter spends over one million dollars just shooting lions( 18 successful hunts at an average of well over $50,000/hunt-and who knows how many unsuccessful hunts) i don't think the Sec. of the Interior is going to see lion hunting as anything but a rich man's pastime. you can kiss Craig Packer's ass but he still isn't going to be our friend. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I never heard anything from anyone involved about the numbers of hunters as I have said over and over I only heard about the Pictures of obviously young lions.I do think I heard that we as americans spend some huge percentage of all money spent to hunt lions and the funds were welcome for area protection among other things. I also would say that the farthest thing from accurate is that the LCTF is going to kiss CP"S ass. Not even sure why he is the focus There are others in the field that are working and will be on our side if posible.I was there and there was more talk of them helping than packer. Spme how we have interpreted from something that packer is our man nothing could be further from the truth. WE do have to pay attention to whhich isle he will take but thats about it. On a side note what difference does it make if one man shoots 19 lions or 19 men shoot 19 lions the only difference i can fathom is jealously. | |||
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Gerry, It was my understanding from others that USF&W would make their decision of what C.P. says is best for the lion and Ken Salizar would do what USF&W says is best. I thought it had been stated multiple times that this decision will be made (indirectly) by Craig Packer. | |||
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I had a different understanding. I thought from what i heard he at this moment had the biggest voice to USF&W but that does not mean forever or that somewhat else may end up more persuasive. I will agree with you it looks like a tough battle without his approval but i also know he said that if he saw the hunting community trying to change their ways he would not want the uplisting. That is what I heard and I told you earlier I am being totally honest. I have no reason to believe that the petition is a done deal on the contrary i thought when I left the meeting that the part he was asking for seemed like a no brainer. There are some other people that have an interest in this fight that would prefer to stay in the background that also carry a big stick. I personally don't think everything CP says will be the final verdict but it seems like for now it would be nice to have him say not to uplist the lion.I need another lifesize animal like i need a hole in my head but if I was lucky in the next three years I would have three more--sure jacks up the price but to me it is woth the cost so I hope we can get by this ESA thing and really have a larger meeting that everyone can come to and organize a war. Thats just me though. | |||
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Well, I did not read all that he has written, because it seems he is using far too many "simulations" to arrive at his conclusions. I might even think he is doing these simulations to prove his points, rather than the other way round. | |||
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your right- it makes no difference at all from a scientific standpoint. but in the court of human emotions/public opinion where political decisions are made, it makes a huge difference-i.e. "rich" guys spending a million dollars to kill lions. no way do i support abandoning the fight to please the great unwashed masses but reality is that uninformed political hacks are going to ultimately decide this thing AND THEY COULD CARE LESS ABOUT SCIENTIFIC DATA. THEY SEE 18 DEAD LIONS KILLED BY 1 PERSON AND SEE GREEDY HUNTERS- REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I know you are probably right but I am not sure how they know how many of each species we have killed. Hell I have probably killed 5 or 6 hundred deer and who would know. It seems that the word rich guys has many meanings to OBAMA it is any one he can make pay taxes as he puts a 25k earner in the rich catagory. A guy that goes hunting and does not own boats or planes and does not spend money on harleys and such is not always rich just because he spent some money on hunting. Others define rich as having more than they have. The decision makers do not have data saying who has killed how many they just know how many are imported into the USA. For me it is irrelavent as no one knows who.I have not shot 19 lions but if I had been lucky I might have killed six does it make me poor because i was unsuccesful or only rich if you score. | |||
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people repeatedly warn others about what you post on this website as antihunters peruse our posts and then turn around and take it out of context to use against. if this is true( and i really imagine it is), they have all the ammunition they need here. i fully agree that anyone should be able to shoot as many of any species they can legally hunt- but i am a hunter and the majority of policy makers are not. to these folks, 18 lions= greed and wanton killing. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. researchers have long been known to twist numbers to suit their purpose. when your purpose is to put lions in game parks and protect them with UN troops- well, what else needs be said. oh, that's right- i forget that Craig is pro hunting( or at least neutral)!!!!!!!!!!! if you believe that, i have some nice beach front property for sale cheap- in the Empty Quarter of Saudi Arabia. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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JD, I think you have hit on a credible point here, regardless of reality or how many lions one's shot the "leader of any movement" must appear beyond reproach. Specially if that movement is in direct correlation to the subject at hand. Fantastic point. An easy argument can be made by "the other side" that; See.....all "they" want to do is kill lions every year.....all of them. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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