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Craig Packer
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He is watching to see if the hunting community is going to step up to the plate and do the right thing...if so...he will help them.



So you are saying if he thinks the hunting community doesn't agree with him then he will do the wrong thing. I guess a man has to have standards.
 
Posts: 2826 | Location: Houston | Registered: 01 May 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Trophy hunting is likely to have contributed to the declines in lion and cougar populations in many areas. Over the past 25 yrs, the steepest declines in cougar and lion harvests occurred in jurisdictions with the highest harvest intensities (Fig. 3a). Similarly, hunting blocks with the highest lion offtakes per 1000 km2 in Tanzania's Selous Game Reserve showed the steepest declines between 1996 and 2008 (r2 = 0.26, n = 45 blocks, P = 0.0004). The Selous is the largest uninhabited hunting area in Africa (55,000 km2) and has long been the premier destination for lion trophies. Across jurisdictions, declining harvests were unrelated to habitat loss for either lions or cougars (Fig. 3b) or to snow conditions for cougars. We modified our population simulation models to estimate impacts of sport hunting in a changing environment and found that habitat loss only imposes an additive effect on the impact of trophy hunting (Supporting Information Fig. S4). Note that habitat loss in many African nations has been so extensive (Fig. 3b) that lion offtakes have failed to recover for 10–20 yrs following the peak harvest years except in Namibia.


For those who will not take the time to read the entire paper, any thoughts on the above quote?
 
Posts: 5209 | Registered: 30 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[/QUOTE]

I know what Craig Packer is doing. He is watching to see if the hunting community is going to step up to the plate and do the right thing...if so...he will help them. If not he may very well decide that ESA listing is the best thing for the lion.
[/QUOTE]

Lane, then how does splitting or alienating the hunting community helping move LCTF forward?

I know, I said I wouldn't comment any further on this, I read every word of every post on this issue. I just could not stop myself.....

Steve


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3789 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I know, I said I wouldn't comment any further on this, I read every word of every post on this issue. I just could not stop myself.....

Steve,
come on in, the waters fine! We need some men with some back bone in here. Wink
 
Posts: 5209 | Registered: 30 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SHIT!!!! I hate this sometimes Wink


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3789 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For those who will not take the time to read the entire paper, any thoughts on the above quote?



505,
you caught something I forgot to mention. He is using harvest data as a population indicator. So lets say for instance you are setting quotas and you actually decide to reduce your harvest to positively impact a population. He will take that data and say your population is in decline. Its cooking the books.
 
Posts: 2826 | Location: Houston | Registered: 01 May 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i am scared of retaliation from any of the scientist. From what I have heard out of all the ones we have had contact with that our actions will cause the uplisting. I am not talking about lion conservation or any conservation just making importation illegal. If that happens conservation will be a much bigger task I am afraid.
 
Posts: 1396 | Registered: 24 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by smarterthanu:
quote:
He is watching to see if the hunting community is going to step up to the plate and do the right thing...if so...he will help them.



So you are saying if he thinks the hunting community doesn't agree with him then he will do the wrong thing. I guess a man has to have standards.


I am saying he is going to do what "he" sees as best for the lion.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38732 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lane, then how does splitting or alienating the hunting community helping move LCTF forward?


If the lion is listed on the ESA it is a mute point thereafter...no need for the LCTF.

Our mission was to try and unite the hunting industry with the scientists...as they see the need for hunting. They just want some changes...of which...after speaking with them...I can agree with.

We have actually spoken with almost all of these people.

If the 2 cannot unite...it is probably a mute point.

We are NOT going to win without them...that is why Brad's "more balanced approach leader" works with them.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38732 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lane,
That has been my continued point, LCTF...Fantastic goal, I just think if we could hit the rewind and speak with a common voice things may be different, I think all that has happened on AR is that guys won't post their lion pics for fear of a negative reaction.

How many feel like I do but just read along and hit "next thread".

I learned a bunch about this entire thing whilst in Zambia last week.

All the best,

Steve


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3789 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am saying he is going to do what "he" sees as best for the lion.



Then why are regular people like gerry scared of "retaliation". It doesn't sound like yall are having a discussion with equals, it sounds like you are begging to masters.
 
Posts: 2826 | Location: Houston | Registered: 01 May 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So lets say for instance you are setting quotas and you actually decide to reduce your harvest to positively impact a population. He will take that data and say your population is in decline. Its cooking the books.

point taken, Craig actually accuses the wildlife departments and hunters of the exact opposite further in the paper.
quote:
These simulations assume a fixed harvest whereas many wildlife agencies reduce their quotas in response to lowered offtakes (Supporting Information Fig. S3 also see ref. [30]). However, offtakes may often be maintained at constant levels through compensatory increases in hunting effort, running the risk of an “anthropogenic Allee effect” [31]–[32]. Hunters in Zambia, Zimbabwe and Tanzania maintain their lion harvests by shooting males as young as 2 yrs of age (Fig. 5). In Zimbabwe, high lion offtakes were sustained from 1995 until 2005 by allowing females on quota [3], and the duration of lion safaris increased by nearly 18% from 1997 to 2001 (Supporting Information Fig. S3). Similarly, hounds have been used to hunt leopards in Zimbabwe since 2001, potentially masking a continued population decline.


I would like to hear others thoughts on this data, speak up everyone, someone?
 
Posts: 5209 | Registered: 30 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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originally posted by gerryb:
i am scared of retaliation from any of the scientist.

And that is what I hear from the other members of the LCTF, if you are being honest, there is no hope for the LCTF to help this situation. This is dispute resolution 101, I am not saying I have the answers, I am only reitterating what others have stated over and over, if this is truly your organizations only strategy, it is doomed.
 
Posts: 5209 | Registered: 30 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I just think if we could hit the rewind and speak with a common voice things may be different,


100% agree.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38732 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't think i have heard that that is LCTF's only strategy, It was pointed out to us if we could get hunters to show them we were cooperating then they would have to side with hunters on the uplisting. If not then they would go with the uplisting. its really simple, we have to get by that before we can attack on the more important overall aspects of lion conservation but if not it will be a mute point
 
Posts: 1396 | Registered: 24 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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