I've been reading Tim Herald's hunt report on Niassa. Here's a post by Tim....


Stu just wants to know 100% he is 6 or older. They get a big fine and lose quota if they shoot one younger. He is doing his best, and we are going to look at the footage shortly as a group and try to see. It was tough, but I respect the heck out of these guys for the way they do it. This cat would have been shot immediately almost anywhere, but you gotta know the rules going in I guess. It was still just an incredible experience. I could have smoked him and I know it. If I go home empty, it will be tough, but I have that site picture, and will be back next year...I still have a week...

So who is doing the aging post mortum and by what means? I'm all for mature lions only being taken but unless I'm mistaken I haven't seen anyone state they can age these things more accurately than 6 month give or take.

Jim,

The Niassa Carnivore Project comes in after the fact and does the tooth aging to know 100%. That is the final word, so the guys here are very conservative, and though I was on the short end of that today, it is very admirable and dedicated to doing things right in my book. It is somewhat frustrating to the PH's and clients, obviously, but you know it going in...so it is what it is...

Dr. Colleen Begg and her husband Keith manage the Niassa Carvivore Project and are in-charge of the aging. They use every means available to do the aging. X-rays of the 2nd upper premolar and skull analysis are the staples of the process.

Dr. Begg is a very knowledgeable person in this regards and studied under Dr. Craig Packer.

Jim is correct +/- 6 months is probably the margin of error. However...if with in the margin of error...Dr. Begg would err on the side of the hunter...and there is NO "true" fine just loss of quota for the following year...but that in reality is a big finanncial loss and thus amounts to a large fine.

Certainly the project has good intentions and Tim, your attitude is exemplory.

I wonder if the "no scars on the face" thing actually holds any water.

My lion was no where near as torn up on the face as I expected an adult would be. He did have a decent scar through the left eye area and some on his body.

The Niassa point system is the "gold standard" in lion conservation and has been a huge success for the lion population of the Niassa reserve.

Dr. Begg is a very knowledgeable, practical, and fair minded conservator or the reserve.

Guys...4 PH's, Ozhunter and me all looked at both videos we got in depth. One PH was Johnnie Johnson who has been there and done it all, and we all agree, it was the right call.

From what I understand, of the quota here- they are allowed one "mistake" cat a year if it is 5 years old, but it does carry a $5000 fine. There is loss of quota on other circumstances.

All is good, we shouldn't have shot the cat, though he is beautiful...

Looking at a couple of pics is tough! But, it appears to me they made the right call, if trying to be sure its 6 yrs old or nothing.

Tim, I say good for you man. No doubt its tough, but you're doing the right thing! Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
From what I understand, of the quota here- they are allowed one "mistake" cat a year if it is 5 years old, but it does carry a $5000 fine. There is loss of quota on other circumstances.

Tim,

Dr. Colleen Begg sent me a pdf of the official rules, point-system, and penalties. Saeed pasted them to the top of this forum for me. Click into them above and it outlines the penalties and quota change for shooting under age cats.

I shot this lion in Niassa in July 2011 with Stu Taylor as my PH. Thought it might be interesting

quote:

Originally posted by Dmitriy:
I shot this lion in Niassa in July 2011 with Stu Taylor as my PH. Thought it might be interesting

Do you know what it was aged at?

<5 IMHO

quote:

Do you know what it was aged at?

Actually I can't remember but it was aged like "well over six years old". May be Tim can ask Stu or Jumbo. I think they must remember this hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Dmitriy:

quote:

Do you know what it was aged at?

Actually I can't remember but it was aged like "well over six years old".

By the PH or by Dr Begg?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by Dmitriy:

quote:

Do you know what it was aged at?

Actually I can't remember but it was aged like "well over six years old".

By the PH or by Dr Begg?

By the PH Stu Taylor and some other PHs in camp

quote:

Originally posted by Dmitriy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by Dmitriy:

quote:

Do you know what it was aged at?

Actually I can't remember but it was aged like "well over six years old".

By the PH or by Dr Begg?

By the PH Stu Taylor and some other PHs in camp

Dmitriy,
That lion is very unlikely to be "well over 6". Dr. Colleen Begg and her husband Keith age the lion taken in the Niassa Reserve. You should verify from her what the official age was before stating here that the lion was over 6.