The below is what I can gather from talking to many people, who are authorities on this subject, are the immediate threats to lion hunting:

1) 10/2004 @ the 13th Conference of the Parties to CITES, a proposal to uplist the lion to Appendix I and restrict trade in lion trophies was presented.

The proposal was withdrawn under the premise that the Range states would hold a series of organized workshops to develop a regional conservation strategy for the lion.

The 2 workshops that were held were in Cameroon for lions in West and Central Africa in 10/2005, and in RSA for lions in Eastern and Southern Africa in 1/2006.

The result was the Eastern and Southern African Lion Conservation Strategy

Regional Conservation Strategy For the Lion In Eastern and Southern Africa

This study dealt very little with trophy hunting as it did not find that as one of the issues heavily affecting the lion. It did however recognize the need for "best trophy hunting practices" to be established in an area specific manner. I do not know if these area specific practices have been established and published, if they have, I have not been able to find them, it is my understanding there was some talk of a point system similar to the one established in the "Niassa Carnivore Project"?

CITES met again in March of 2010 and the Uplisting from Appendix II to I did not come up, but it was not "by chance". It was agreed that the above published strategy would be implemented and if it was not, chances are that the next CITES meeting (approx. 2 yrs away) will see the lion uplisted to Appendix I, which some think will effectively put an end to lion hunting (as reference, Leopard are also CITES I)

2) The second threat to lion hunting is the petition filed with the US Department of the Interior to list the African Lion as "Endangered" on The U.S. Endangered Species Act (ESA). Which to my understanding would make it where they could not be imported into the U.S. and potentially make it where an American Citizen would be in violation of US law if they hunted lion.

(the below was permanently posted by Saeed as well)
What We Are Fighting

I believe the latter is the issue that the "LCTF" is currently focused on.

I also feel that those opposing these threats would find much more support from their peers if they offered factual information (links, detailed information, etc.) on what is going on. The brow beating and "parenting" of grown men is not a way to gain support. Please start posting facts (links, publications, timelines, etc.) so we can make our own decisions.

Another thing I would like to happen, is for someone with factual knowledge of what happened with the lion in Botswana to speak up.

It is my understanding that it was claimed that populations were dropping, the >6yr age rule was put into effect and shortly after lion hunting was banned all together.

Would someone please elaborate on that chain of events, that knows.

I truley do not know the real story in botswana but I have been told so hearsay that the current president despises hunting and he was the main culprit in stopping it. I have no knowledge that its the truth but that what i have been told.
i am pretty sure that JJ was at a couple if those meetings and it was my understanding that the ESA petition was to be dealt with first. I believe he says he would like to have some published data before the next CITES meeting but I do not know the timeline.I am a member and I hope I have not been anything but factual in what I heard and understood. I will say that some of the legal information was something I did not have a great grasp on. For sure i would not state facts on that part. It was a fact that policeing ourselves was discussed at length and JJ thought, that and helping raise funds for the study should be focused on.I also noticed Boddington mentioned this in the new safari magazine. Most of the other discussions here I have felt were more on how we were going to help lion conservation if the petition was killed.I have seen many good ideas such as stopping the poisoning of lions and indiscriminate killing of lions because of human conflict. Habitat is another huge problem to deal with and I think enough people have showed an interest to get some things started. While it may have seemed that no one was posting links etc I think we and I know myself was concerned with the ESA fight. Of couse that does not make it right if someone feels like they were not getting the whole story. This dialog while sometimes got off track seemed to have gotten to a point where we know there is a problem what do we do. I for one welcome any thing anyone knows or thinks they know that will help. JJ did caution everyone to be careful in wording anything going to salazar or USF&W. I thought his comments were very good and made me realize how sensitive some of the politico's are. There are a lot of programs to work on and I am ready to help any way posible and I think it would be better if we can share ideas without fear of being engaged in a personal battle. we have a common goal from what i have read so lets get on with it.

quote:

Would someone please elaborate on that chain of events, that knows.

Brad and all,

Gerry is correct. The current president of Botswana is anti-hunting and is friends with the Joubert's.

The stop of lion hunting in Botswana was purely political and NOT founded in science. CP favored the establishment of a Niassa type point system.

Jouberts and the current Bot president (can't think of his name off the top of my head) stopped lion hunting arbitrarily.

I looked this up on Google Lane, hope it is the name you were looking for Ian Khama(Seretse Khama). For give the pun, probaly rhymes with Obama.

quote:

(the below was permanently posted by Saeed as well)
What We Are Fighting

I believe the latter is the issue that the "LCTF" is currently focused on.

Brad,
Saeed is the only one who can "pin" stuff up at the top. All of the stuff up there is stuff I sent to Saeed and asked him to permanently pin up. That is a summary of the petition.

CHC,
That is him. Thank you sir!

quote:

Gerry is correct. The current president of Botswana is anti-hunting and is friends with the Joubert's.

Yes, I have heard this. I would imagine though, that he did not personally handle the task of physically banning lion hunting. I have heard the Jouberts were involved, but would like to hear from someone that knows, what the process looked like and who was involved and if possible, a rough timeline. Khama may have allowed what happened, may have encouraged it, financed it, etc. I would imagine there were other key players.

you can bet there was many more involved and probably key guys but he has the power to do it or undo it.

quote:

you can bet there was many more involved and probably key guys but he has the power to do it or undo it.

understood, I am trying to figure out who his minions were and what there methods were?

I know some but I can not say for a fact. I know that some one in the photo arena had a hand in it but for the life of me i can not remember the name. he is a problem though and having him replaced with a friend would be next to impossible but maybe not totally impossible.

From what I know...it was a fairly arbitrarily made decision by Khama based on his relationship with the Jouberts. He told his underlings (read as all the rest of the government) to make it happen and make it look like it was in the best intrest of the lion. They just used the media put out by the anti-hunting NGO's as the "science" to justify their stance and closed lion hunting.

there is some cat loving group in SA that acts like he is their close friend but i can't remember who it is. i think its the outfit that attcked timbavuti.

quote:

Always remember the "Golden Rule": He who has the gold...usually makes the rules.

Follow the $$$$$

Look who the major investor is for Great Plains, the group the Jouberts are involved in...

http://greatplainsconservation.com/team.html
.....Paul Harris......

Whats was he CEO of?..... Firstrand Bank....still a board member;

http://www.firstrand.co.za/84/board-of-directors/

Who owns Bank of Botswana, one of three principle money makers for the government and supporter of Khama's party?......Firstrand.....

Now if you wanted an ear to take over some former areas to build luxury photo lodges, and press your own agenda..........

I would surmise Jeff Rand or Johan Calitz would have some insider info on what happened, especially with the closing of prime Okavango areas.