The Accurate Reloading Forums
Mosin-Nagant in .405 Grenadier
06 March 2017, 02:20
GrenadierMosin-Nagant in .405 Grenadier
Background:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6521043/m/3401049761The rifle started out as a simple converted M-N. It had been restocked and the military sights had been replaced with hunting sights. The caliber remained 7.62x54R. No other work had been done.
Here it is before.
The rifle is nearly completed. It has been modified to hold four 405 Grenedier cartridges in the magazine. The rifle has been rebarreled with a McGowen barrel, contour is Douglas #5. The bolt handle was replaced with one by Max Shepherd Bolt Products. Open sights will be the same as Winchester installed on the .375 Safari Classic.
The biggest change was opening the magazine so it will load and feed four of the fat 405 Grenadier cartridges. Work has been accomplished by our own AR poster, dpcd. He has considerable experience with these actions.
Here Tom is demonstrating the feeding of four rounds of 405 Grenadier. I sent him dummies with various bullets from 300 grains to 400 grains. I believe the dummies in the video are topped with 350 grain Swift A-Frame bullets.
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The dummies were a mixed lot of 350s and 400s, all different makes, just to show it doesn't matter; it feeds anything.
06 March 2017, 03:52
Dulltool17Very nice; very smooth!
Doug Wilhelmi
NRA Life Member
06 March 2017, 04:10
drhall762Went back and looked at the initial post. Been trying to decide on something to barrel my Siamese action for and now maybe I have found it.
Dave
In 100 years who of us will care?
An armed society is a polite society!
Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
06 March 2017, 04:49
GrenadierDave, I have two Siamese mausers. One is the earlier version in 8x50R and the other is a later version in 8x52R. From my fiddling with Grenadier dummies I have determined that both actions are excellent candidates for the conversion. The bolt face and extractor work without alteration. They also appear to work in the magazine without altering that. They might need minor rail work. I don't really think so, but I cannot confirm it so assume a minor rail alteration will be required.
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06 March 2017, 19:25
drhall762Who cut the reamer for you? In addition to the Siamese Mauser I have a couple of others that would be suitable. I too am a fan of the MN. I have a couple of dpcd's and another on the way. I have no problem chopping up a rifle that Bubba has already gotten a hold of. I leave the nice originals to others as I have one and is enough in any collection.
Dave
In 100 years who of us will care?
An armed society is a polite society!
Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
06 March 2017, 19:58
Bill/OregonGren, I missed your original thread. Have you put your wildcat to use on deer, elk or bear yet?
There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
06 March 2017, 20:44
GrenadierDave --
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com...=grenadier&results=1Bill, I have only shot paper so far. But I have no doubt what a 300gr, 350gr, or 400gr .411" bullet will do on game. The Mosin-Nagant offers a very useful platform for the Grenadier because of the ability to load cartridges to more than 3" long.
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10 March 2017, 06:11
Mike_DettorreGrenadier,
Very cool...makes me think about blowing out a 7.62x54r and necking up to 9,3.
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
10 March 2017, 06:20
drhall762The 9.3x53R, as the Finns call it, is a standard hunting round. It would be easy to do.
Dave
In 100 years who of us will care?
An armed society is a polite society!
Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
10 March 2017, 07:03
GrenadierI came up with the cartridge for use in the Marlin 1895 lever rifle with tubular magazine. In that platform there aren't a lot of options for a cartridge with flat or blunt nose bullets. The .405 bullets designed for the .405 Winchester work beautifully and were part of the reason I went with a .411" bore.
The Mosin-Nagant not only allows for larger bullets seated out where they should be but it also lets one load pointed bullets.
I just received the dies in today's mail. I am anxious to try them out.
.
11 March 2017, 17:13
jeffeossoThis is a NIFTY setup
The 405 version works in the Siamese Mauser with no magazine modifications.
I can easily make a 9.3x53/4 Russian that will function through a Mosin. Or a 375 Russian would work well too.
13 April 2017, 21:49
GrenadierThe transformation is complete. Stripper clips work, but again, only 4 rounds.
The cartridges are, clockwise from left: 400gr Woodleigh, 350gr Swift A-Frame, 300gr Barnes TSX, a 7.62x54R cartridge for comparrison, and 350gr Hawk.
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14 April 2017, 03:44
yumastepside.....glad to see some progress on this, can't wait to get my Siamese rebarrelled.....in case I missed it, what length is the MN barrel?
Roger
14 April 2017, 08:48
yumastepside.....the longer 25" barrel doesn't look out of place on this rifle....very nice
....I was just about to ask for velocities with the 300 grainer, but you beat me to it, thanks
Roger
08 May 2017, 10:25
GrenadierI am doing a little accuracy testing in the Marlin 1895 and a little more load work in the Mosin-Nagant.
In the meantime, this is the bullet lineup I have settled with in the Mosin Nagant:
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24 May 2017, 04:45
wookie76How hard would it be to do the exact same thing, but in 7.5 Mas for a rimless version?
Could be done, but would accomplish nothing; you still have a 30 cal cartridge about the same as a Russian. And these actions feed fine with rimmed cartridges. Point is to make it bigger hole in the barrel.
24 May 2017, 07:25
wookie76I wasnt clear, just using mas brass to accomplish the 405.
Ah, ok; it would work, but gains nothing over using the Russian brass, which is easier to get anyway.
24 May 2017, 15:40
drhall762quote:
Originally posted by wookie76:
I wasnt clear, just using mas brass to accomplish the 405.
If you were to built a big bore MAS 36 sporter, the few that I have seen are all 10.75x57. Mauser based cartridge not the MAS cartridge. Much better brass availability.
The issue in the MN is just what dpcd described, they were built for rimmed cartridges just like the Mauser and MAS were built for the rimless. Much easier to stay within the actions design parameters than trying to convert it to feed a different case style.
Dave
In 100 years who of us will care?
An armed society is a polite society!
Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
28 May 2017, 22:31
GrenadierI've been working on this for some weeks. It took lots of loading, lots of shooting, and my pistol range berm looks like the impact area of an artillery range.
Here are several loads using a variety of 300gr, 350gr, and 400gr .411 caliber bullets from Barnes, Hawk, Hornady, Swift, and Woodleigh. I used IMR 3031, Accurate 2495, Alliant RE-7, and Alliant AR-Comp. I got some pretty decent velocities. Many of the top loads yeild muzzle energies of 3300-3600 ft lbs.
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29 May 2017, 20:39
GrenadierI agree.
For example, the 400 grain Woodleigh SN bullet at 1950 fps from the muzzle:
has over 2600 ft lbs energy at 100 yards
has over 2000 ft lbs energy at 200 yards
and still has over 1000 ft lbs energy at 500 yards!
.
You are within 50 fps of the 450-400 which is a known buffalo killer with penetration perhaps exceeding anything else. (usually 2050 fps or so)
.
15 July 2017, 06:57
SquirrelNutThis is really cool.
