Looking at loading 110 grain Nosler varmageddons in a Model 70 classic compact for coyotes and chucks. I would like to use a powder that has a decoppering agent, so I’m thinking TAC, N133, and or X-terminator. Nosler lists Benchmark as most accurate in tests and it’s very close to N133. Don’t need the highest velocity. Any informed opinions or thoughts please? Thanks.

what velocity do you want?
2400 fps to mimic a 300 blackout with that same bullet can be done with just about anything from unique to 4831.
if you realistically looking at 3-K fps then 4064 or 3031 would do just fine.

you don't need to try to get all fancy with a propellant you just need to pick one that will be efficient at the velocity you want.

I used to shoot 130 grain Hornadys in my.308 match rifle using VV N135 powder, The load was quite accurate at 200 yards, which is where I fired them in competition and low recoiling, which helped in rapid fire strings.

Out of curiosity, I tried that load out on deer and it proved to be a real killer in my Winchester 88.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
what velocity do you want?

you don't need to try to get all fancy with a propellant you just need to pick one that will be efficient at the velocity you want.

3000fps would be fine. I don’t care about fancy, I just don’t like cleaning copper fouling. I mean I reeeeally hate it, and since there are low copper fouling powders out there, I’m starting to use them.

Xausa, I may try some N135 with the varmint Type 125s. Thanks to all who commented.

I'd contact Hodgdon. They list loads of CFE 223 but the lightest bullets they list are 130's.

I've heard it performs well in the .308.

You might consider a 125 BT?

I used IMR4895 when I loaded those in my daughters 300 Savage.

quote:

Originally posted by Johral:
I used IMR4895 when I loaded those in my daughters 300 Savage.

Thanks.

Could somebody please explain the OP's comment regarding 'decoppering agent'. No more gun cleaning maybe... It's a serious question, something I have not heard of.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
Could somebody please explain the OP's comment regarding 'decoppering agent'. No more gun cleaning maybe... It's a serious question, something I have not heard of.

There are quite a few powders out now that include a decoppering agent in their make up. In Hodgdon’s CFE223, the “CFE” stands for “copper fouling eraser”. If I recall correctly all of the new IMR Enduron line (4166, 4451, 4955, 7977, and 8133) containS CFE. At least some (perhaps all) of Ramshot’s rifle powders contain CFE, as do all current production Vihtavuori rifle powders. There is a good article about CFE powders by John Barsness over on 24hour under, “Ask the Gunwrighters”.

I too hate cleaning a barrel.
so I mostly just shoot lead and clean nothing from the chamber forward.
but I do like CFE-223 powder in the 308 [with cast bullets at about 2500 fps]

anyway the cfe stuff doesn't eliminate copper fouling it can't.
it might push it along down the barrel some or mask that it's there longer.
but it surely isn't scrubbing the barrel clean with each shot.
if it were doing that the barrel wouldn't last very long.

I'm to the point of just using the spray foam stuff and letting the rifle sit for an hour or so then patch it out with one patch before
running a brush through a few times.
foaming it again and letting it sit until I come back and patch it down, and give it an oiled patch or two and call it good.

is it bright metal clean?
meh I dunno,, it's clean enough and I shoot it until it starts losing accuracy again.[2-300 rds]
then spend the 10-15 minutes of actual work to get it better again.
I usually do 2-3 at a time since I got the stuff out.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
anyway the cfe stuff doesn't eliminate copper fouling it can't.
it might push it along down the barrel some or mask that it's there longer.
but it surely isn't scrubbing the barrel clean with each shot.
if it were doing that the barrel wouldn't last very long.

The CFE powders do not employ an abrasive means of removing copper fouling. The CFE compounds ( tin, bismuth, or both, according to John Barsness) molecularly bind to the residual copper when it is heated by the powder gasses and friction, which keeps it from adhering to the bore. They supposedly may not work as well with barn burner, giant boiler room cartridges, but rounds with moderate bore/case capacity ratio’s are helped out tremendously.

l chopped a .308win' PSS down to 20" and have run a load consisting of:
110 v-max, Winchester Brass, Fed 210M primers and a stiff load of Viht N130 for 3100ft/sec@10' from the muzzle.
From the first scan there were three accuracy nodes of sub .5moa.
Light bulets in a .308win throat will never get anywhere near the rifling so l just sat the base of the bullet at the neck/shoudler junction.
l've heard good things about the Varmagedon bullets and will be testing their little brothers in my 6x222rem shortly.

tac/h335 .. but that's ALWAYS the answer for me

quote:

Originally posted by Ratwhiskers:
l chopped a .308win' PSS down to 20" and have run a load consisting of:
110 v-max, Winchester Brass, Fed 210M primers and a stiff load of Viht N130 for 3100ft/sec@10' from the muzzle.
From the first scan there were three accuracy nodes of sub .5moa.
Light bulets in a .308win throat will never get anywhere near the rifling so l just sat the base of the bullet at the neck/shoudler junction.
l've heard good things about the Varmagedon bullets and will be testing their little brothers in my 6x222rem shortly.

Thanks for the info!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
tac/h335 .. but that's ALWAYS the answer for me

Nosler’s data indicates fastest velocity with the 110s with IMR 8208XBR. TAC is right with 8208 on the burn rate chart. I don’t need blistering speed but TAC has a decoppering agent and it's locally available. I’ll be giving it a try, along with IMR 4166 and N133. I might try the N130 mentioned above, but only if the others don’t work out. I’ve spent too much already.

Don't know anything about decoppering agent, but I load 110 gr. Vmax using H4895 compressed load.

The Hodgdon website will point you to the load data. I seat them substantially longer then the load data states.

quote:

Originally posted by Puddle:
Don't know anything about decoppering agent, but I load 110 gr. Vmax using H4895 compressed load.

The Hodgdon website will point you to the load data. I seat them substantially longer then the load data states.

I posed this same question on 24hour and John Barsness suggested that IMR-4166 would be good decoppering alternative to 4895.

Im getting the impression that CFE223 is leaving me with clean bores, seems to take about al hundred rounds or so then it stays clean, but schools still out on that..Not sure its a doable thing anyway unless you don't shoot any other powder in a certain caliber, and that's not something I care to do..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Im getting the impression that CFE223 is leaving me with clean bores, seems to take about al hundred rounds or so then it stays clean, but schools still out on that..Not sure its a doable thing anyway unless you don't shoot any other powder in a certain caliber, and that's not something I care to do..

CFE223 is a great powder for the 308 standard weight bullets, but it’s a bit too slow burning for the 110 grainers.

Matt,
I suspect that is correct, didn't consider it at the time of the post...however one never really knows these things until you test them at the benchrest, has been my experience, soooo!

I tested the 125 gr. Bal tip as I recall and it shot 1.75" in my .308 mod. 99 Savage and that's pretty good, but when I tested the 125 gr. Barnes TSX it shot under an inch, I attribute this to the longer Barnes, and perhaps is your tests don't go well, keep that in mind, a 110 Barnes may be as long as 125 gr.bullet..Anyway its a plan..A 110 gr. Barnes X at about 3000 FPS or more, would make and awesome deer load,but probably a meat grinder and bloodshot producer..

RL-15