I am looking at rebarreling a Kimber 84M from 243 to 358 Win. My questions are:

1) Is the factory barrel taper too thin for the 358?

2) I am not a big fan of AI cartridges and believe the 358 works well as is; however, would there be a marked improvement if improved?

Thanks, Lou

I believe that the 358 AI is a fundamental waste of time and resource that will do nothing for you other than complicate your life and devaluate your investment.

You'd be better off with a Kimber 8400 is 325 WSM, a Model 70 in 338 Win. Mag., a custom 338-06, a custom 358 Norma, a Ruger 77 in 350 Rem. Mag., or else a Model 88 Winchester in 358 Win. Mag..........

AD

I'm also not a fan of ackley improved rounds, and would advise you to stick with your inclination to steer clear from them. Almost all of the velocity increase AI users get is from running very high pressures.

I don't know what the contour of the factory barrel is, measure the muzzle dia of your barrel and compare that the barrel contours from aftermarket companies. You can go down to a #2 contour in 35 bore.

If a 358 win isn't enough for your application, and you like 35's (I do in a big way) the two short action options I'd look into are the 350 rem mag, and the 350 WSM wildcat. Ruger is offering a 350 rem mag, and I'd venture to bet you could sell your Kimber and buy a Ruger for much less than you could re-barrel your Kimber.

You could also get a WSM and have it re-barreled as a 350 WSM.

Paul H,
Or buy the Ruger and for a few hundred more, rechamber to 35WSM!
Cheers...
Con

quote:

2) I am not a big fan of AI cartridges and believe the 358 works well as is; however, would there be a marked improvement if improved?

In fact there's not a marked improvement in any of the AI cartridges......well a couple maybe but most often the AI route is an expensive path to nothing over the parent cartridge. This would certainly be the case with the .358.

Dr. Lou
Maybe consider reboring the original barrel to either the .358 win or the new 338 Federal (.338/08).
It's generaly cheaper than a rebarreling job, no stock work to worry about and either cartridge will be outstanding in that platform.
BT53

Lou,
to actually answer your questions, rather than pontificate on other subjects

1: the 243 barrel is probably too thin for a good 358 rebarrel to the same profile. THe douglas #2 is about as light as should be done

2: a 358 AI will have next to zero gain over the 358 win, and will costs cubic dollars more

3: your unanswered question, but implied... if you want more than 225 at 2500, go with a 24 or 26" barrel... and use a 1x12 pr 1x10 (if you want to shoot barnes)

best of luck
jeffe

Thanks for the info. I will go with the 358 as is. Also, who does a good job at boring barrels and how long do they generally take? I forgot about this option since I own mostly Sakos, and due to the metal used in their barrels they cannot be rebored so I have become used to rebarreling. I would love to maintain the factory taper and look.

How do they cleanly stamp the new caliber on the barrel and remove the old?

Dr. Lou,
My rebore is a Sako. My rifle was made in the late 60's early 70's and is the mannlicher style carbine. It was rebored from .243 to .358 win by Bob West of Springfeild Oregon, whom I beleive is retired.
Do a search on rebore here and on other forums, you'll find someone qualified. Good luck. BT53

Dr. Lou,

Re reboring. Unless a barrel is special, ie octagon, has integral barrel rib, etc, you will be dollars, quantity and deliver time ahead having a new barrel fit, provided the same contour can be used in a 358 tube. Check pac-nor, they can match factory contours, and fit the new barrel to the action.

This one always intrigued me:



MM

MM,

I'm seriously considering getting one of the Ruger 350 rem mag ss/syn M77's, and having it re-chambered as a 350 WSM. I'm thinking 225's should leave the 22" tube at better than 2800, 250's @ 2600 or so, and 270's at around 2500.

Thanks for all the great feedback. I definitely will not do the 358 AI. Also, I have come across a new stainless Shilen barrel in 358 with a 1/14 twist. I am just going to go ahead and put a new barrel on.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
I am looking at rebarreling a Kimber 84M from 243 to 358 Win. My questions are:

1) Is the factory barrel taper too thin for the 358?

2) I am not a big fan of AI cartridges and believe the 358 works well as is; however, would there be a marked improvement if improved?

Thanks, Lou

No.

In fact even in "poorly designed" cartridges, (.220 Swift, .300 H&H, etc.), the amount of BALLISTIC improvement is more imaginary than real. The main benefits are along the lines of longer case life, less trimming, etc.

However the .308/.358 family of cartridges is NOT poorly designed, so there really is no benefit to sharpening the shoulder angle.

My suggestion is a one in 12 twist. That 1-14 will possibly not stabilize the longer bullets. My Savage 99 in 1-12 stabilizes the old Hornady 275 gr RNs. Just a thought. Packy

The 225 Sierra is the heaviest I shoot in the 358 Win. If I need anything heavier, I go to one of my bigger guns.

Before spending on a 1-14" I would call Sierra and see what they say.

You could try the Nosler forum with the same question about the 225 Partition.

http://noslerreloading.com/phpbb2/index.php?sid=4a055e2...f06959ca91c40d2286a7

My Sako AII with a Shilen bbl has a 1:14 twist. Shoots 3 225s into a 1/2 inch all day long, provided I do my part. If my memory serves me, I don't think I had the choice of 1:12. If I can get one in a 1:12 I will go with it. Thanks for the advice. Lou

Someone must make a 1-12" .358 barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Someone must make a 1-12" .358 barrel.

Well, Winchester did, as well as the Savage 99 and Browning BLR. Probably most barrel makers today can furnish a 1 in 12" twist. I know one fellow who had a 1 in 10" twist barrel in .35 caliber installed on a Ruger #1 chambered to .35 Whelen so you can even go to a twist that fast. I forget who made it for him, if I can always ask him if some one needs to know.
Paul B.

I have a Whelen, .350 Rem. mag., and a .358 Norma with 1 in 12†twist barrels manufactured by Lilja. CP.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Someone must make a 1-12" .358 barrel.

Hello!
Yes, someone makes them. I have ordered one from Lilja (US) in contour nr 4 and 26" inches.
I know .358 win doesnt need that length, but it saves my ears as i don`t want to put a silencer on it because of the looks. (It`s legal here in Norway)
.358 win is a silent round as is, and even more i figure with more bbl length.
I am going to use 225 grains A-frame mostly, and i hunt in the mountain where 1-12" twist is better for stabilisation.
I will put this bbl on a Model seven action i have. The stock will be an Richards Microfit Tac driver. I`m anxious to try this rig when finished. (Appr March)
I am sick and tired of my .270 win ruining meat and giving me extra work dressing the deer, moose and roe deer.

Just received my Classic M70 Featherweight barreled action in 358 Win. from Pac-Nor. They contoured the barrel to perfectly match that of the factory so it would fit in the the stock; however, to keep enough meat at the muzzle they eliminated the taper from where the barrel exited the stock to the muzzle (.600 instead of .560). Great work with a five-week turn- around. I will be sending more work to the fine folks at Pac-Nor.

Dr. Lou

A 1 in 14" rate will be fine for 99% of the bullets you would shoot in a .358 win, heck all the American 35 whelens have a one in 16" and they shoot 250's just fine. I love my BLR in .358 win one accurate and deadly combo.

quote:

Originally posted by fgulla:
Dr. Lou

A 1 in 14" rate will be fine for 99% of the bullets you would shoot in a .358 win, heck all the American 35 whelens have a one in 16" and they shoot 250's just fine. I love my BLR in .358 win one accurate and deadly combo.

Well, as you say, a 1 in 14" twist is adequate for probably most bullets that will be used in the .358. I guess I can agree, up to a point.
You also said that all American manufacturors use a 1 in 16" twist for the .35 Whelen. This is also true, but I, for the life of me, cannot figure out why they pulled off such a dumb stunt? Currently, I have five rifles in .358 Win., three of which are bolt action, the other two lever guns. The two lever guns will consistantly outshoot the bolt actions. They have the proper 1 in 12" twist as designed by Winchester.
Of my three .35 Whelen rifles, the custom Oberndorf mauser I picked up from an estate sale has a 1 in 14" twist, while the Remington 700 Classic and Ruger 77RS have that idiotic (JMNSHO) 1 in 16" twist. FWIW, the Ruger isn't too bad with 250 gr. bullets but the Remington doesn't do all that well with them. Go figure.
In the early 1970s, Mr. C.E. "Ed" Harris wrote in the American Rifleman about people wanting to use twist rates slower than the proper 1 in 12" as determined by Howe and Whelen. In the article, Mr. Harris said that the .35 Whelen was designed for heavy game in a rifle that could be used for North America. it was designed to be used by those who hunted big game, but could not afford the price of the .375 H&H mag. rifles due to the high cost of the longer actions. The proper bullets for the Whelen ranged from 250 gr. on the light side to 300 gr. on the heavy side. The fact that a 200 gr. bullet also shot well and could be used on lighter game was nothing more than a bonus.
MY .358 rifles with the 1 in 12" twist do quite well with 250 gr. bullets and are very accurate with the 200 gr. bullets as well. However, the bolt action rifles with the 1 in 16" twist do rather poorly with the 250 gr. bullets, but are OK with the 200 gr. bullets.
I've been shooting the heavier .35 calibers for a few years now, and am seriously considering building another .35 Whelen, this time with the proper 1 in 12" twist.
JMHO based on better than 20 years playing with .35 caliber rifles.
Paul B.