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I handled the new Mauser 18 at Jagd and Hund and was heavily unimpressed. I wrote to Mauser on facebook, this is what I had to say. And what follows are their remarks. Selling rifles in America. This is my tip for you. I handled the m18 at jagd and hund. I wasn't really impressed with it. The Mauser m12, m03 and M98 rifles are nice, but the biggest failure they have is that are not built the way Americans want them to to be built. If you look at the most successful rifles in America that are not made in America you would have the Howa 1500 and the Tikka T3. What common trait do they have? They both have tons of aftermarket options and are easily upgradeable. While Remington 700 stocks, triggers, and other accessories may not fit a Howa 1500 or a Tikka T3, the majority of aftermarket companies make products that will work, and are similar to what is made by our huge aftermarket stock, trigger and magazine system market. Why would I buy a Mauser 18, M12, or Sauer 100/101 when eventually I am going to want to put a new barrel on it. Your rifle when it is shot out goes, in the trash heap. A Tikka T3, Bergara (700 clone), Howa 1500 or Remington m700 just gets a new barrel. Your rifles fail to capitalize on the single most important function of a firearm to an American. I can not fix it, and I can not upgrade it. Furthermore, they are not upgradeable to fit AICS pattern magazines, and they can not be rebarreled. You built a rifle to compete in America, without making a rifle that can compete This was their reply: Thank you for your assessment of the market opportunities of our new M18 in America. In contrast to other brands, a Mauser owner does not need to worry about replacement barrels, tuning parts, etc., because our weapons are so robust and well-made that this will only be very, very rarely necessary. Luxury problems that your son or grandson will not even have to worry about in decades ... Time will tell... My thoughts:] I do not understand how a Mauser owner does not need to worry about replacement barrels. I have killed over lots of barrels in my short life. To me this is stupid. I need a rifle I can put a new barrel on. I like Steyr-Mannlicher rifles, they can not be rebarreled so I won't own one. Mauser 2018/Sauer 101/101 can not be rebarreled they are heat sleaved into the receiver. To me this is not a smart way to run a company. | ||
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i've tried to help with product development over social media --- to be short, it never goes well -- however, a call to herr director of marketing may be far more effective -- there's this thing -- few people "get" people from a like, but actually way different country/culture -- in germany and europe it makes perfect sense -- buy the rifle you want, pay lots of money, and keep that rifle, as is, forever --- in the US, not so much opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The dozens of people that I know and hunt with, 95% of them will never even take the rifle out of the stock let alone replace a trigger or barrel. | |||
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The same reason Remington was able to get away with sell the 742 that fell apart between 200 and 400 rounds. As they told me 200 rounds through a normal hunting rifle is a life time of shooting for most hunters. A good barrel well go thousands of rounds several life times for 98 percent of gun owners. Heck the only rifles I have to worry about barreling are my varmint rifles. Shoot even my AR's don't get much use any more. Now if your a hard core competition shooter or PD shooter as I once was yea barreling can be a factor. But heck one can buy good shooting rifles that are cheaper then a lot of barrels. If you can afford the ammo to shoot them out one can afford a new one. I like the idea of being able to fix things but a lot of things are disposable at the end of there life. | |||
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I would agree with you Jeffeoso. When I see a used rifle here it is generally done. New rifles here are expensive, beyond expensive. Rifles like the Sauer 101, Sauer 100, Tikka T3, Mauser 12 and the like are well over $1500 locally. The next rung includes things like Steyr, Sako, Blaser r8, Heym, and so on over $2000. Used rifles, are often used up. Used Sauer 90's or Mauser 66's in good shape are still $1500. The ones that are $500 probably are not worth having. Maybe that is the spin they see on it. I was lead to believe that the gunsmithing culture is just as big here as it is in the States and Britain. This is simply not true. Yes there are guys in Ferlach, and at smaller shops turning out amazing rifles, but the average German gunsmith isn't rebarreling sniper rifles, and building custom sheep guns. They are fixing old guns, and there are tons of old guns to fix. So maybe it is me who doesn't understand the point of the Mauser 18. | |||
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from what I see on here it seems as though it is getting to the point where a new barrel, labor charges, postal charges, and load development charges are costing as much or more than some lower priced guns. So I can see where some companies figure that the action is expendable so long as you put a good barrel on it that will last for awhile. And I think it is correct to assume that the vast majority of gun owners in the United States will never have a gun of any type rebarreled. Most of the time it is not going to be the original manufacturer that is going to profit from the gun getting a new barrel, or for that matter accessories. So the concentration must be maximizing revenue on the one and only sale. | |||
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Spot on. I have a friend with a Rem 700 in .223 that never shot well and a desire for a .300BLK - $400 labour, $400+ barrel, unknown turn around time and shipping costs vs $715 for a Ruger American Ranch rifle with a warranty (for whatever that’s worth). Rem 700 may have had the monopoly on bolt on go fast bits but companies such as lucky 13, mdt, and even magpul are now catering to the entry level market. Formerly Gun Barrel Ecologist | |||
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700$ for a ruger American? you can get 2 of them here for that and still buy some ammo. from the sounds of it there aren't a lot of guy's looking for good quality built older guns in the 300$ area to put a 300$ barrel on and shoot for a second lifetime. | |||
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well. ..either you buy the crap and accept the concept or you buy something else. In another thread we've been over the Mauser 66. That rifle should really offer a lot to the american gunbuff who wants to hotrod.. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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I think they know exactly what they are doing. It is a damn good rifle for $700 retail msrp. Sauer 100 same. They are made on the best barrel making machinery in the world and uses top rate steel. If you can shoot out one of those - buy a new rifle for $700. If one is going to sell in the American market they need a low price point rifle. The American hunting rifle market has become a $400-$700 price point market. Europeans should just pay up and buy r-8. The sauer 100 is a damn accurate rifle - I would expect the same from Mauser. I will stick with my blaser. Mike | |||
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I would state when one is buying a European rifle(or any other product for that matter) it´s a finished, done and working product. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Horseshit! I know 3 people here that have bought Merkels newest iteration of the ratchet gun. Two of these rifles fired without anyone touching the trigger. The other one won't feed. There are good rifle companies the world over, European rifles are not better than American, British, Scandanavian, or Australian ones. | |||
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Yep, got to love Australian prices. Unfortunately the only good $300 centrefires are the ones bought by dealers from deceased estates etc, giving the wives $300 for their trouble on rifles they'll put on the shelf for $1000. Australian labour costs ensure having a rifle rebarrelled is solely the path of a true gun nut these days. Formerly Gun Barrel Ecologist | |||
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Well. In relation to what you state about buying àftermarked`stuf What need is there to buy aftermarked barrel for a new Steyr rifle..or a Heym, Sako...or a Mauser M12 etc etc. And Regardsless of what these guns can be Rebarreled when worn out. I think most European gunmakers know if they make a good product there the marked doesn´t demand `aftermarked` products. So my statement wasn´t to compare EU VS the world. But in regards to your 3 Merkels.. http://www.alloutdoor.com/2017...les-faulty-triggers/ http://blog.cheaperthandirt.co...er-xpr-rifle-recall/ http://bulletin.accurateshoote...r-bolt-safety-issue/ DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Yes of course, any cheap rifle can fail. A Merkel is over 2000 Euros. So is it finished, and ready? Give me a Tikka T3, Howa 1500 or Remington 700 that I can replace the parts I want to upgrade the rifle. Not a Sauer 100, Sauer 101, Mauser 12, 18 and so on that I can not fix what the manufactuer was too cheap to fix in the first place. R93's were far from cheap but they like to blow up and smack people in the head. | |||
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I am sure it is very much a cultural thing. With no disrespect intended or implied, I would suggest many / most of the newer societies - the US, Southern Africa, Australia and New Zealand have very much a culture of making do with what is to hand and then building, fixing, improving and innovating. That's why they entrepreneurial cultures, and frankly like cars, guns, boats, aircraft etc that you can build yourself, fix and tinker with. Much older societies - European there is much more order and there is a whole concept / mindset of where people are in society. Chances are that if your father was say a stone mason or blacksmith or an automotive engineer, chances are you would be to. If you want a gun you go to a gunmaker and why would you doubt that a proper gunmaker would produce something that doesn't do what its supposed to do. If you look at the charter's of old guilds - the whole ethos of the guilds and professions was to produce the most appropriate and good quality for the end use. Appreciate that the above is very much an over simplification but it rather explains the different markets and attitudes. For a European Gunmaker the whole concept of an eventual owner wanting to tinker and change is just not even on their radar. And for 95% of their customers they are building a rifle that works and if it doesn't, well they will fix it. And those 95% of customers frankly wont even understand or care what goes on inside the gun. They know how to operate and shoot it but would n't even consider taking it apart. An awful lot of European and UK based hunters would expect a rifle to be zeroed and regulated when they buy it and frankly are not interested in the finer points of ballistics. | |||
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I'm kind of a fan of buying stuff that just works as intended right out of the box. but what do you do when it doesn't? the comb is a little too low? it shoots to what the factory considers 'within specifications' but those spec's are twice or three times what your daughters 299$ walmart rifle shoots. I mean do you steal her 59$ scope and try again, or do you just dump the 1600$ rifle off for 800$ and buy another one? | |||
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Forgive me if I missed the explanation, but what makes rebarrelling impossible with the Mauser 18? Unlike some old Winchesters and Savages I can think of, at least the action is not milled out of the barrel. I note the rifle is very competitively priced, and suspect if I wanted to get an old rifle rebarrelled around here it would cost me nearly that much. Even finding a gunsmith to do it would be a challenge as the one I usually go to has moved 200km farther away. Some of the others seem to be gunshop secrets - but not even to be trusted with mounting a scope. | |||
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Sambarman338, If it is like the Sauer 100/101, and mauser 12 it is heat sleeved into the action. Sauer or Mauser has a video of them building them somewehere on youtube. In talks with Mauser this rifle is heavily related to the sauer 100, 101 and Mauser 12 but like the Sauer 100 it is on the cheaper end of things. | |||
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The M18 will outlive several generations of American hunters. The M700 has lots of aftermarket options because it needs them, the Mauser/Sauer/Blaser do not. I'm with you, I'll stick with my Blaser's, but Mauser has broken the code with these just like Sauer did a few years ago. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Model 18 Mauser a Conversation with Mauser
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