Bass Pro?

I just got back from Bass Pro last night in Dallas. Guns, mostly generic Wal-Mart crap until you go upstairs to the fine gun room. Then the prices fine guns are outrageous.

Consider these Merkel 140 500 NE $10K
Francotte Pair 470 and 375 for $37K per rifle, used and made in the late 1980s but in pristine condition. Seems a bit steep for a pair of Francotte sidelocks in a left handed action with left handed stocks. I don't know what Francotte would get for these rifles. They were sweet made me wish I had $60K in the bank burning a hole, and I was left handed.

The idiots downstairs were clueless K-mart used car sales men.

The bass boat guys were on the top of there game though.

If your short on gun knowledge don't shop there you will walk out with something you don't need.

I have to agree on the used guns being overpriced at the Hamburg PA store. I decided to make a quick stop when I was driving elsewhere just to see what was in the used gun rack. I found a Remington Model 141 slide action in 35 Remington with a peep site for $300, but passed on it since I did not need it (but who needs every gun they own?). I called a couple weeks later to see if they still had it, and they did, but I was quoted a price of $500. I descibed the rifle, and they said it was the same one I saw previously. I asked why the price went up $200 from two weeks ago, and I was told the rifle was incorrectly marked. My ass. Dunkelberger's in Stroudsburg had three or four of the same rifles for around $300. I like cabela's prices on flats of Winchester AA target loads, but I don't think I'll be shopping there for any guns...

Apparently most of you have not studied retailing.

I doubt that Cabela's makes much money on their guns, and I doubt much that they care. Guns are a loss leader. A way to get you in the store to buy the more lucrative items they have to sell you.

I seriously doubt any major retailer of sporting goods would use used guns as a loss leader. I've been in Cabelas several times and have made it a point to pay particular attention to what they offer people for used guns. Without boring you with the details, I can tell you they're making a small fortune on them. Now that's not to say that some of the used guns don't sit in the racks for a while and draw dust, but the majority sell pretty well and they have next to nothing in them.
their new guns are no real deal either when you figure that the local dealers here sell new Ruger 77R's for $449, and Cabelas sells them for $500. Both are making money.
Some of the sales on new guns are ok at Cabelas, but not worth the trip in my opinion.
I just think it's a shame that they have access to such a good clientelle with quality used guns, and nobody begrudges them a decent profit, it's just that they're trying to make a killing on each gun. I'm willing to pay a fair price, just for the selection, but I won't be robbed on the deal.

I'll do Cabelas like I have in the past, I'll take advantage of their tent sale every year where I can pick up some real deals, and the rest of my business will be with my local dealer, where it should have been all along.

I've been buying from Caelas for close to 20 years now and I've also been to their stores that I treat rather like a visit to the zoo or museum. Why would I want to buy there and pay sales tax? I also deal with the Gun Library folks from time to time on *MY* terms, that is, if they have a gun for sale at what I deem is a fair price, I buy it. I also have my own FFL because retail gun dealers are on DRUGS when it comes to priceing guns or ammo. I also Purchase from Grafs, Midway and other dealers wholesale because I have the FFL. Still, you can't beat the price of ammoat Wal-Mart for example. That's capitalism gents. What's next Gov't subsidized guns and ammo? not hardly. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:
Furthermore, by supporting Midway, Cabelas, Grafs etc., you are supporting sleazy crooks plain and simple.
They buy directly from the manufacturer thereby circumventing both the wholesaler and the retailer.
They also lie to the manufacturer in the process, calling themselves wholesalers when in fact they sell directly to the public.

I believe that this is a real problem which wont go away unless they go away.
Where do you who shop at these places expect to go to when you need that $5 item or expert service when you have that all important question on your mind?
Down to the local gun shop?
Sorry, he went out of business last month, said something about no customer base or lack of support I think.

It is very frustrating when I get phone calls everyday, and I mean 7-10 per, for guys looking for parts or service, or mainly want answers to problems which they have no intent on having you look at or fix.

Gun Stores are not charities, maybe if someday UNICEF got into the gun business they would be, but until then there are consequences when you don't support the 'good guy', most times its the fact that the next time you call him to waste his time answering a question about an item you will buy at Midway, he won't be there to answer it.

Anybody catch the allusion to 'Joe Dirt'?

-Spencer

Would like some cheese with the whine? Those are the realities of doing business in the 21st century USA.

As a highpower shooter, several important components are just about 100% unavailable locally. Nobody around here carries Remington 7 1/2 primers (some of the best for 223 Remington loads). Same for 9 1/2s. Nobody around here carries the heavy .224" bullets I need to be competitive at the 300 and 600 yard lines. Nobody around here carries ANY 6.5 mm bullets to feed my Model 70 match rifle and my CZ 550.

Since I have to order (and pay the shipping costs) those things from places like Grafs, Cabelas, Midway, and Sinclair, I may as well bundle up my other, more common purchases and save me a trip to the store.

Fact of the matter is, most knowledge now comes from places like this. Anyway, about 100% of the local stores know fuck all about highpower rifle or about metric calibers.

I guess my point is that you don't necessarily need to shop at Cabelas and Midway.
You obviously need to do some mail order if you can't get stuff at your local shop, understandable.
But I would recommend that if you do a quick Google search on a product you are looking for, you will find locally owned and operated shops online.
Take my shop for example.
Every single item you listed, I have in stock and I also find it ridiculous that a shop would not stock Remington primers and also not stock a full selection of .224 bullets.

I am not saying that I am the only one, but if you do a little bit of research, and with the internet it is about as easy as looking in the phone book, you will find stores out there stocked and willing to help.

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Catalog_Berger_22.htm

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Catalog_Sierra_22.htm

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Catalog_Nosler_Match.htm

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Catalog_Berger_264.htm

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Catalog_Sierra_257-264.htm

Its easy to find stuff if you search a little bit.

-Spencer

My turn on the soapbox:

1. Guns at Cabela's: I once had an FFL, and before I had it, I thought retailers made a killing on selling guns. Not so. I found that, for the most part, retailers only get 5-10% markup on most guns. That isn't a great margin on a gun that is $500 cost, when you add in the price of shipping, etc...I mean, c'mon, you don't work for free, why should they? IMO, most of the margin and profit is made on things like clothing, boots, and "gadgets" i.e. calls, etc...

2. Why do you people expect Cabela's employees to know everything there is to know about a gun when you go there to shop? Do your homework at home, so YOU know the gun, caliber, etc. and stop relying on a guy who probably doesn't have the extensive knowledge that people on this forum seem to. What do you do when you buy a car, take the salesman's word for it? I hope not! Educate yourselves and learn about it before making the purchase!

3. If you don't like the prices on used guns, quit bitching and pay a little more to get a new gun. They wouldn't even offer used guns if guys didn't come in there wanting something for their used stuff. It's kinda a service really, them taking our unwanteds so we can have something different.

4. I have never had a problem with Cabela's, either in product quality or in service. I'm educated about what I'm buying, therefore there is no reason for me to bitch about the product...the burden is the consumer's, not the retailer's.

Cabela's has always been a great place to shop, with an extensive line of products, and beautiful stores. The shopping experience alone should be worth something, IMO. They are in the business of making money, simple as that. Who can blame them?

For the last decade I have found the prices at Cabelas to high for my liking. But recently I began shopping them alot for bullets. When you add in the little they charge for shipping they are usually quite a bit cheaper than anyone else. For example, I recently ordered 500 Remington Bulk bullets for my 45-70. I am estimating the package weighs 30 pounds. They charged me $8 for shipping to Alaska.

You prove my point.
I charge the same shipping.

$7.95 regardless of weight or destination for anything that fits into an 8.5" x 11" x 5" box.
That equals about 1000 or so bullets.

-Spencer

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:
You prove my point.
I charge the same shipping.

$7.95 regardless of weight or destination for anything that fits into an 8.5" x 11" x 5" box.
That equals about 1000 or so bullets.

-Spencer

Wayne Doudna at custom cast bullets loves that deal: works great on boxes of 500 435 gr cast bullets.

Good point Spencer but one minor correction. USPS has a 70 pound max weight per box. But I still do not see how Cabelas can do this and stay in business as they only have shipped stuff to me UPS lately. And to be honest with you my local dealer (Boondocks in Eagle River) is cheaper than you for Barnes and Noslers bullets before even taking shipping charges into consideration.

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:
Furthermore, by supporting Midway, Cabelas, Grafs etc., you are supporting sleazy crooks plain and simple.
They buy directly from the manufacturer thereby circumventing both the wholesaler and the retailer.
They also lie to the manufacturer in the process, calling themselves wholesalers when in fact they sell directly to the public.

This attitude has been bothering me since you first posted this.

Where does it say that wholesalers must exist at all?

Where does it say that someone cannot get wholesaler's price if he retails as well?

I have news for you:

1) A wholesaler is, in the lingo of lean enterprise, muda (waste). They add no value to the product in the eyes of the final customer. As such, they must be eliminated, as all waste in business should be. They may add value to YOU, by relieving you of inventory until you need it, but they add no value and more cost to ME.

2) Manufacturers probably define wholesalers simply by the quantities they buy. They don't particularly care if those who buy in wholesale quantities sell it to retailers or direct to the consumer.

3) Corollary to #2, those who buy the most at once get the "wholesaler discount" or whatever you want to call it. As I said before, and it bears repeating, manufacturers do not care if those who purchase in quantities large enough to be considered "wholesalers" are actually so in the strict sense of the word.

4) The concept of wholesalers will probably slowly and gradually disappear, as information technology continues to more closely connect those who make stuff with those who actually buy it at retail.

Think long and hard about this before you go off on me.

Snowwolfe-
The post office is who puts out the box, not UPS of FedEx.
They call it a Flat Rate Box and its the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Bullets have gone up about 8% since the first of the year and Hornady has announced another 3% on top of that.
My prices aren't as cheap as they used to be and there is a chance that if your local shop is not computerized, in that he prices the box when it comes in and puts it on the shelf, then you could be looking at an old price and when he goes to reorder it he will lose money.

HP Shooter-
You are absolutely correct.
Wholesalers are unnecessary and factories really don't care who they sell it to as long as they buy a certain amount.

However, the gun industry is not a mass merchant industry.
As previously stated, who are you going to go to if you drive your store out of business by buying from these guys?
Also, it is not a perfect world and the big guys aren't as honest as it may seem.
For example, on the bulk brass Midway sells, they cheat on their taxes to get it so cheap.
By not paying excise tax, they are able to sell in the big 500 and 1000 box quantities.

But yes, I do understand your point.

-Spencer

Spencer,
I said USPS did the flat rate shipping. USPS stands for United States Postal Service. I mentioned UPS as the way Cabelas was shipping products to me. UPS is United Parcel Service.

My mistake, I didn't see that you had put down USPS.

In my experience, there has been no weight limit on flat rate stuff.

The problem is that every post office has its own set of rules and they interpret them differently.

For example I have only one local post office that accepts my Flat Rate Envelopes with all the tape I put on them.

-Spencer

quote:

If you had to pay return shipping for an item from Cabela's, that is a first.

That's news to me, I have NEVER recieved a return shipping label that was prepaid from them. The only one that ever did that as far as I can remember was Gander Mountain.

I drop by Cabela's Hamburg, PA store about once a week.

I usually just look through the bargain cave and check for sales.

Today (planning ahead) I took the 4x pistol scope I sniped off of ebay last week and actually found a pair of Butler Creek scope covers to fit it... Hey, better to pay $12 than $16(full price).

I usually look for any interesting bargains.

Are their prices on guns out of line?
for those of us that shop around yes.

For the average Joe who may own one rifle and wants something new? That guy will likely never know the difference.

In line with a comment above some of Boyer's prices are high too, but some aren't, you see that on used guns everywhere.

BTW, Check out Ed's Guns in Tamaqua.

AllanD

As far as the shipping, Cabela's eats a lot of shipping charges. People are lucky they are not charging actual shipping. Cabela's bends over backward to appease the whiners. If they took a more realistic approach to this customer service, they could lower their prices. You would not believe some of the crap people pull on them and Cabela's bows to them and goes on. You are paying for tons of customer service. People have no conscience. They will return old worn-out clothes or waders etc. and Cabelas will always do something to appease them-even if it is just a prorating of the product. If you don't like good customer service and good shipping rates among other things -THEN DON'T SHOP THERE!

Just gotta say that the Hamburg store is one of the most amazing places I have ever been in my life. I stop by it on my way back and forth from NJ to the Harrisburg gun show. The game displays are grand and there is an African game panorama that is really just about of museum quality. And a separate hall full of terrific whitetails. IMO it is worth a hundred mile drive for sure.

Just a tip. Don't buy a gun from Cabela's with the usual your dealer's FFL and a cashiers check. That works fine if the gun arrives as described. I paid $4500 for one that was in need of repair when it showed up. Cabela's tells me I'm out the return shipping and my repayment must come from "corporate". They got my payment in two days, it's been three weeks and my refund is still in the system. Forget Cabela's!

You bought a $4500 gun sight unseen??? Here's your sign!

SBHOOPER:

I saw plenty of pictures and the gun was one I was familiar with [ Heym Safari Express]. Since it was 1500 miles away buying "on approval" is how you do it. I don't like to travel that much. How would you have handled it? I'll use a credit card next time!