I have a Savage 114 in .270 Win. It shoots well. I have worked up really good loads with Berger 140gr vlds and 52 gr of RL 22. about 3/4 moa at 3025fps avg.
Now...I am considering a 7mm mag Remington Sendero first version. (used gun)
I mostly hunt white tail but I do intend to go elk hunting next season.
Should I stay with what I have or move to 7 mag???
Suggestions...comments?? .02 worth??

If you're keeping the 270, I would move up to a 300 Win Mag or something in that power range. 140s at 3,025 with good accuracy isn't too much less than you'd get from a 7 Rem Mag, but a 300 would allow you to use 180 and 200gr bullets on larger game like Elk.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
If you're keeping the 270, I would move up to a 300 Win Mag or something in that power range. 140s at 3,025 with good accuracy isn't too much less than you'd get from a 7 Rem Mag, but a 300 would allow you to use 180 and 200gr bullets on larger game like Elk.

Bingo +1

The big advantage of the 7mm Rem Mag - well in fact ANY 7mm is that you have those readily available heavy bullets. 160, 165 and 175 grains.

You simply can't get these at a reasonable price in .277" diameter. So do you need that weight? Or not?

Only the "locals" where you intend to shoot the elk will tell you what is and is not a good weight bullet for the conditions.

Be guided by them. If they say that 140 grains is OK I'd stick with the 270 Winchester. The elk won't know the difference between a 3,025 270 WCF and 3,405 7mm RM.

But those that eat it afterwards will and would probably prefer the WCF shot meat!

If they say that 175 grains is better than I'd consider the 7mm Remington Magnum. Or look at a 189 grain 300 Winchester Magnum.

Although if conditions dictate shots at under 100 yards I would think that a 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet would do at around 2,800fps.

The other totally different choice - for elk - might even be a 8mm Magnum or 338 Magnum if you can get one cheaper than a 300 Winchester Magnum.

A few years back, I witnessed a 5x5 bull elk taken out at 500+ yards with a 150 grain bullet, don't know the exact load, from a 270.

If you have been shooting the 270 for a long time and are used to it, why change, except to get a new rifle.

JMO, but from 0 out to 350-400 yards, the elk nor the shooter is really going to be able to tell the difference in performance, between the 270/308/7mm Mag/30-06/300 Win Mag or 300 Weatherby Mag, if the first shot is placed where it is supposed to go.

As a post script to this, the Outfitter I use in Colorado, swears up and down that he has seen more elk shot and lost with 7mm Rem Mags than any other round, and he has been guiding for over 40 years.

Back in the late 70's I went bear hunting in Northern Minnesota. The guides to a man did not like 7 MM mags. Too many pass thru shots and they were required to track them down. They wanted you to bring a 30-06 preferably. Bullet technology has probably taken care of that since.

I have two .277's and two .284's

.270 WIN and the .270WSM

7-08 Rem and a 7 RemMag

The WSM shoots hevier bullets the same speed as the original.

The 7mag shoots even hevier bullets the same as the original .270

But realy, around 130 to 140 grners it doesn't matter, even the 7-08 hits almost 3K with Hornady lightmag 139ers.

quote:

The guides to a man did not like 7 MM mags.

Being a bear guide in Northern Minnesota qualifies one to drink whiskey after sundown.....little else....

Your 270 load should do the job on elk. That is assuming the on-game performance of the Berger VLD bullet which I am not familiar with. If you feel like experimenting, try the same powder with a 150 grain Nosler partition. I have killed several Colorado elk using that combination.

Thanks for all the input guys. Interesting quotes on the 7mm. I have some 150gr Berger VLDs as well. They have a little better BC than the 140s.
I think shot placement is critical to say the least. I have shot a bunch of white tails with my .243 - DRT one shot. Shot placement! I am using 95 gr Bergers. I get similar accuracy with the Bergers and Nosler BTs.
Thanks!
Ken

Off the topic a bit, I am concerned a bit by your load of 140 Bergers at 3025 fps. Did you chronograph it? Is it off a 22" barrel? It looks too hot for my liking. How firm are the primers reseated? If your cases do not last at least 10 reloads, I would say you are loading it too hot. You are bound to get rapid throat erosion.

Even if you settle for a 2900 fps load in the 270, I would suggest that you move to 300 mag for a real increase in flexibility and oooomph!

Good luck with your elk hunt.

If you already have a 270 and want something bigger, you might as well make it worth your while and go 338 +. However, if you were starting from scratch, a 30 magnum would make more sense, especially if you wanted just one rife to do everything.

In my opinion the difference in power between a 270, 7mm and 30 cal are a wash. Like has been stated, if you want a bump in power go above the 30 cal. Say a 338 or 35, my pick is the 35 Whelen.

quote:

Originally posted by kstrick5002:
I have a Savage 114 in .270 Win. It shoots well. I have worked up really good loads with Berger 140gr vlds and 52 gr of RL 22. about 3/4 moa at 3025fps avg.
Now...I am considering a 7mm mag Remington Sendero first version. (used gun)
I mostly hunt white tail but I do intend to go elk hunting next season.
Should I stay with what I have or move to 7 mag???
Suggestions...comments?? .02 worth??

The cartridge notwithstanding, my comment would be that most elk hunting takes place in pretty steep country. The Remington Sendero is dang heavy. Would not be my choice for an elk hunt.

To Nakihunter -
I took the wrong bullet and weight off of my log book. I was getting that velocity with a 130 gr Nosler BT. My bad.
Yes I do chrony my loads. The 140 Bergers were hitting 2880 avg with RL 22.
And I do watch for pressure signs even on the start loads. I have had one close call with a .357 many years ago. Cracked the cylinder! I have that cylinder mounted and sitting on my bench as a reminder! That was my one gimmie.
When I reload now - no music, no kids, no dogs and only the powder I am working with is on the bench. All other powder is put up in the cabinet.

I agree with the 'bigger' responses.

If I owned a .270 Win I would not bother with a 7mm RM, but move up in bore size to a .300-.338 cal like .300Win or WSM, .338-06 or .338 Win.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Off the topic a bit, I am concerned a bit by your load of 140 Bergers at 3025 fps. Did you chronograph it? Is it off a 22" barrel? It looks too hot for my liking. How firm are the primers reseated? If your cases do not last at least 10 reloads, I would say you are loading it too hot. You are bound to get rapid throat erosion.

Even if you settle for a 2900 fps load in the 270, I would suggest that you move to 300 mag for a real increase in flexibility and oooomph!

Good luck with your elk hunt.

I am amazed you are getting 3025 fps. with only 52 gr. of RL-22. I use 57 gr. of H-4350 with 130 gr. bullets for 3150 fps. (24 inch tube) in all of my 270 Win..
RL-22 is slightly slower than H4831. 3000 fps. is very do-able with 140 grainers.

.


I would keep the 270 and buy some Barnes TTSX
in 130 grain if you think you need more
penetration for your elk. A 270 is not a
"minimal" cartridge for elk in my book.

It's the bullet that does the job. You've got
plenty of speed and accuracy with your current
rifle. Burning more powder, more recoil, and
more noise is not going to make one bit of
difference. Neither will a few more grains of
bullet weight and a few 1000th's of an inch
in diameter. No way, no how. Dead is dead.

With today's technologically superior bullets,
you would think people would start using less cartridge than more. They surely could.
I do.


.

Unless you are hunting elk from a stand, I doubt you are gonna like carrying a Snedaro around the mountains, JMO. I prefer the 7rmemag to the 270 for anything really, but it is pretty close to the 270 for most hunting needs. I would step upto a 300winmag or even a 338winmag for an elk rig. If you don't shoot much beyind 300yds, then a 338-06 is about the best elk round going IMO. Just a bigger hammer.

From experience, my first elk rifle was a .270 Win Parker Hale 1200. With 150 grain Nosler Partitions I'm not afraid to take any shot on an elk out to 300 yards. Beyond that I start to question my shooting ability not the cartridge or rifle.

I've tried both the .280 Rem on a Savage 110 action and 7mm Rem Mag Win M70 XTR. Neither rifle offered any advantage over the .270 IMO. Never shot heavier than 140 grians in either the .280 or 7mm RM as I had bigger rifles to handle bigger bullets. Neither rifle showed any better accuracy than my .270 nor seemed to kill game any better. All three are very fine cartridges, but my first love is the .270.

Gave my BIL the .280 and sent the 7mm RM off to toomanytools to rebarrel to a .375 Ruger. I've since relegated my .270 to shooting 130 grain bullets at deer and pronghorn. Now I use my .30+ calibers for elk.

The 7 Mag has the benefit of extra noise and recoil if that's important to you.

I like any discussion where the 270 Winchester is envolved. I don't have an axe to grind with the 7MM Mag, so if that's what you want buy it!

Here is some real 270 Win and other experiences. On elk, the best dead drops, I have seen, have been with the 270 Winchester, 4 elk. Bang flop. Out to 200 yds. With the 30-06, 4 elk, and 180 Nosler partitions, out to 200yds, they were all pass thrus. 35 Whelen 4 elk, out to 225 yds all dead within 25 yds. 7MM Mag. 1, shot good hit and easily recovered after a 75yd run, no problem. The bullet did come apart after passing thru the lungs and clipping the heart, then continued down the left front leg. Very acceptable performance!!

As to nakihunter, I am shooting 58grains of Accurate 3100/ 150 Nosler Partition/3050fps, out of my 24" Model 70 270 Winchester.
Out of my 26" Sendero, they are only about 50 fps faster.

My 270 Winchester Sendero, is a real tack driver, but as others have said, I wouldn't carry it about on a hunt. It does make for however, a great 500yd varmint rifle under windy conditions. Also, if you want to sit on a hill in Wyoming and "pop" an antelope at long range,that would be great choice.
I would not feel undergunned with the 270, on any NON dangerous North American game. The other guys mentioned, a heavier caliber, maybe that would be the way to go, because, IMO the 270 covers everything else!

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

The guides to a man did not like 7 MM mags.

Being a bear guide in Northern Minnesota qualifies one to drink whiskey after sundown.....little else....

Not much difference between Wisconsin and Minnesota bear guides.

quote:

The 7 Mag has the benefit of extra noise and recoil if that's important to you.

.. so much the same benefit .300mag & .338win offer over 30/06 and .338/06 respectively...

To Rae59....58 gr of RL 22. My first post did say 52gr. 58.2 is the suggested max load for the Berger 140gr.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

The guides to a man did not like 7 MM mags.

Being a bear guide in Northern Minnesota qualifies one to drink whiskey after sundown.....little else....

Qualifications to drink whiskey are not necessary in Minnesota.

As stated previously I would go 300 Winnie or above. As for the 270 Stoke it with 150 Nosler Partitions and no elk or moose in this or any world will be safe with a decent placed shot.

quote:

Originally posted by kstrick5002:
I have a Savage 114 in .270 Win. It shoots well. I have worked up really good loads with Berger 140gr vlds and 52 gr of RL 22. about 3/4 moa at 3025fps avg. ...

Hey KStrick, That should be a fun load to shoot "paper" with. But the wrong Bullet for Elk, way too fragile. It was never designed for anything but paper, regardless of the hacks who try to fool people into thinking they are good for Hunting.

No doubt the 270Win will Kill Elk with a proper bullet, but you may have to pass on a HUGE Trophy Elk because of the shot angle. If that is OK with you, then a heavy Partition would be a much better for your Elk Hunt.

And even better would be a much more "Adequate Cartridge". I'm a real fan of the 7mmRemMag, but it would not be my choice for Elk. Something in the 300WinMag, 338WinMag, 300RUM, 338RUM, 35Whe, or a 350RemMag with a Partition allows for a more decisive Kill from any angle than a 270Win. And it allows you to take certain Kill shots from angles which result in lost Game with the 270Win.

Either get an Adequate Elk cartridge and bullet, or be mentally prepared to pass on many shot opportunities.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I have a couple old 270's and also two 7mm mags. Have shot moose & caribou with all of them. Moose go down easy, always find the nosler inside the hide on back end; usually noslers go through caribou. Difference for me is that 270 drops about 8 inches more at 500 yards, when dead on at 200. (around 36 inches with 270, 28 inches with 7mm).

We have killed a few moose way off, across the river; 800-1000 yards with 7 mags; always used the 270s for caribou close.

All that being said, since I bought the 30-378, I don't ever use either the 7 mags or 270s; friends come up and they use them.

quote:

Originally posted by Zhurh:
We have killed a few moose way off, across the river; 800-1000 yards with 7 mags...

Sporty.

If you really NEED more than a 270, you need more than a 7mm mag.

The 7mm mag is more of a step sideways than a step up.

Bruce

I have a 270 with a 22" barrel, and I have a 7MM
Mag with a 26" barrel, and I have a 300 Win Mag
and a 300 RUM with a 26" barrel. The win mag has a 25" barrel. I also have the 338 RUM with a 26" barrel. I could go on but this is all that
talked about.

quote:

bcp
one of us

Posted 26 April 2010 10:29 Hide Post
If you really NEED more than a 270, you need more than a 7mm mag.

The 7mm mag is more of a step sideways than a step up.

That looks like it is the general consensus. Maybe a small step up...but only a small step.
I have a .300 WSM Ruger. Fun to shoot and pretty accurate. Just need to find the right load.

Hotcore:

You shootin a lot of elk down there in the Carolinas? Just curious. What's your elk kill numbers, and some of the situations of which you have shot some of those trophies, and how many B&C Elk have you had to pass up?

Funny thing, as I said earlier the best flops on elk I have seen, and I have been around a couple dozen elk taken, have been with the 270 Winchester, no under gunned here IMO! Of course this is hunting in Arizona, and other Western States, we might not have the same situations as you in the Carolinas! Oh BTW, I will be hunting elk again this September, if you have a tag good luck! Oh and be sure to take your louden boomer, you never know.

Jerry

Hey Jerry, As a wise old gunner once said(Elmer Keith), "The 270Win is a darned adequate coyote cartridge.", or words to that effect.

EDIT IN: A buddy mentioned to me that I'd made a bad TYPO below and he sure was right - pitiful on my part!

In fact there are Elk in the North Eastern Western corner of the Carolinas - BIGG'UNS at that.

To expand on the story, the Elk Herd began with reintroduction of Elk to the "Land Between the Lakes"(between Lake Barkley and Kentucky Lake) area, in the Western portion of Kentucky. It was a joint effore of the RMEF and the KY Fish & Wildlife Dept.

The Herd did very well and a reintroduction was planned for the South Eastern corner of Kentucky. That Herd is doing amazingly well and has far exceeded the reproduction expectations. So much,that the amount of Hunting Permits has been increased each year beyond what was originally anticipated.

More Elk went from the Land Between the Lakes over to the North Western corner of North Carolina around the Cades Cove area. Now they have expanded their range into Tennessee and Virginia. Amazing how well a Herd can thrive when there are no fools tossing Wolves out all over the place.

End of EDIT.

You have until the end of the month to register for a Tag in KY where WHOPPER Trophy size Elk are being Killed every year. You must register on-line.

The Elk re-introduction in this area has been a HUGE success. They began in the reclaimed lands from strip mining where the "tree huggers" say noting will ever exist. Of course, the ground story depends on getting some dirt back atop it, which is part of the required reclaimation as well as specific seeding. They worked with the F&W folks and the RMEF people to put in excellent ground holding cover and brouse. Now the Elk thrive over here. Kentucky, Virginia, Tennessee and both Carolinas are benefitting from the Elk reintroduction.

Plus clinton and babbit did not get to toss any wolves in that location. They did toss Red Wolves on a coastal barrier island, but they tend to have short life spans if they make it ashore, regardless of the Tree Huggers.

Having used a 7mmRemMag probably longer than you have been alive, and having looked at many Elk up close, that is how I based my post. I do not believe in using an Inadequate Cartridge on any Game. It speaks poorly for the person's understanding of their anatomy and tenacity for life.

Best of luck on your Hunt.

Hotcore:
Unfortunately, the 7mm mag is not as old as I, and your opinion of inadequate cartridges, is just that, your opinion. Elk are not Rhinos, and between Arizona and Idaho,for as long as I can remenber,the 270 Winchester has always been, as Speer Inc. put it, a favorite cartridge of Idaho's Expert Elk Hunters. Oh yea, since you quote Ol Elmer, should I quote Jack O'connor, nah, I think we have been down that road before. I would still like to hear some of your stories about the big one's you passed up!

Jerry

Firstly, I'm completely biased here. Personally, I've never needed a 7mm or .30 cal. anything. All I've ever used here in Ak. for about 40 years is my .270 win. and .338 mag. I have to admit I've never shot an elk but after seeing the .270's performance, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
Your post indicates your elk hunting is only once and a while - not an annual thing. IF you just wanted to buy a new rifle, I could probably say "ok" but you already have a rifle with known accuracy and that you are totally confident in. That counts for a much more than many of people think.
IF I were to use a .270 on elk, I personally would go to either a 150 gr. Partition OR (preferably) a 150 gr. Northfork. I find NF's to be slightly more accurate and perform at least as well (maybe slightly better) than a Partition. My .270 load is a 150 gr. Partition loaded to about 2930 fps with Rldr-22. If your elk hunting becomes more "habitual", I would syill keep the .270 and get at least a .30 cal. mag of some type or better yet a .338.
That's me tho. The .270 and 7mm's are too close in cal. to make much practical difference in the field IMHO.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Jerry, As a wise old gunner once said(Elmer Keith), "The 270Win is a darned adequate coyote cartridge.", or words to that effect.

In fact there are Elk in the North Eastern corner of the Carolinas - BIGG'UNS at that.

You have until the end of the month to register for a Tag in KY where WHOPPER Trophy size Elk are being Killed every year. You must register on-line.

The Elk re-introduction in this area has been a HUGE success. They began in the reclaimed lands from strip mining where the "tree huggers" say noting will ever exist. Of course, the ground story depends on getting some dirt back atop it, which is part of the required reclaimation as well as specific seeding. They worked with the F&W folks and the RMEF people to put in excellent ground holding cover and brouse. Now the Elk thrive over here. Kentucky, Virginia, Tennessee and both Carolinas are benefitting from the Elk reintroduction.

Plus clinton and babbit did not get to toss any wolves in that location. They did toss Red Wolves on a coastal barrier island, but they tend to have short life spans if they make it ashore, regardless of the Tree Huggers.

Having used a 7mmRemMag probably longer than you have been alive, and having looked at many Elk up close, that is how I based my post. Having used a 7mmRemMag probably longer than you have been alive, and having looked at many Elk up close, that is how I based my post. I do not believe in using an Inadequate Cartridge on any Game. It speaks poorly for the person's understanding of their anatomy and tenacity for life.

Best of luck on your Hunt.

Hotsh#t,

Ye olde sum b#### How are ye??

Remarkable and pitiful to say the most!!!

Now we can add "ELK LOOKER" to the long list of your accomplishments in the field????? No doubt you have probably "LOOKED" at "thousands of elk" in the Carolinas.

Truly amazing!!!!!!!!!!!

Teancum: My thoughts exactly, LOL!!! Must be a region thing, or maybe those guys who pay big bucks to hunt elk, with some POS professional hunter,guide, who dosen't want to spend the time and effort to track an elk that is hit poorly.
I got in this discussion with a bunch of friends over in New Mexico, while the 270 Winchester, was not part of this conversation, just about every other cartridge was. These guys are convinced, the 375 H&H is the only way to go for elk hunting. It seems, they have to shoot the elk right thru the front quarters, and break both legs. Otherwise, the elk might run away. I asked about holding 3 ribs behind the shoulder, and putting one in the boiler room, also all the meat loss with a shoulder shot, but they dismissed my points as so many "EXPERTS" do here.

You know, I have a black powder elk tag here in Arizona this year, that ought to set Ol Hotcore right off..

Jerry

My father has a 7mm Rem Mag that spits out 150 gr. B-Tips at a SMOKING 2750 FPS!!!

Don't know what factory loads or a different hand-load will do, but needless to say, that was disappointing! Perhaps it would be up to par with a different bullet/powder combination.

My .270 (with a 22" barrel) pushes 140 gr. Accubonds at 3040 fps, and 150 gr. A-Frames faster than I'll say here (both using RL-22).

A couple of years ago I shot a smallish moose; it probably still weighed about 700-800 lbs. The A-frame went through both shoulders and the spine.

Needless to say, I didn't have to track!

friar

friar