I am going to construct a Longrange Elk rifle. I use a 9.3 x 62 for most of my hunting, but where I hunt on a private ranch in Colorado, there is a unique spot that we alwsys leave alone to the last day if we haven't scored.

The country is wide open and it is a fairly easy hike to a ridge where there is a panaromic view of the basin below. Six hundred yard shots are certainily possible. I though loath to take such a shot, two years, I saw probably three hundred head of elk in that basin with probably ten bulls that were six point or better. Ranged 550 yards away was a monster. I just didn't feel comfortable shooting at him, but have thought about it for some time and since, I believe that this opportunity will come up again with either my son or myself, I think I will make a rifle for just this limited application.

Sorry for the long explanation, but here are my thoughts and would welcome those thoughts of people that have constructed such a rifle.

Since, it would be a prone shot and I don't like muzzle breaks, I think that it should be a smaller caliber, thus the 7mm Ultra. Since, I need top accuracy, although I personally like them, I think that it should be a Model 700 action. My first question is: Are there action makers that make an upgrade of the Model 700 action. My second question is: I am thinking a 28 inch barrel. Would it be advisable to have it fluted.

Any experienced thoughts will be appreciated.

I would choose a .300 Weatherby, .300 RUM or, my real preference, a .340 or .338 in the above cases. I would load 200 in the .308 bores and .225-250 in the .338s.

I would use a modded Remmy 700, a 28" tube is great and I would not bother with fluting as I see no real benefit to it.. My buddy has a Dana Campbell from Alaska MOd. 70 Classic sts., re-tubed to .338RUM and another on the same action, in the .300RUM, the first with a #3 Lilja and the second a Gaillard bbl., a very fine Canadian maker and his are 27", the shortest I would go with.

I would prefer a Micky sporter stock and a bipod, would use either my Zeiss 4.5x14 or a Swaro 4x12AV and would use a Leica 1200CRF.

I used to shoot my favourite P-64 Mod. 70 Alaskan in .338WM with the old 225 Hornady over 72-IMR-4350 on my hometown range at 500 yds. and would hold a consistent 1.25 moa from sitting and prone.....but, I was a lot younger then......

So, I think you are on the right track and it can be done for a reasonable cost and WILL drop even a big bull Elk like dammbusters. I am considering a similar rig, probably my buddie's .300RUM as I already have five .338WMs and this because much the same kind of Elk hunting is found in northwest BC and I like to put them DOWN with the FIRST shot and have them STAY there!

Some might suggest a 12 lb. rifle, I like a 9.5 lber here and it will work and work well. Keep us informed as to your thoughts and progress on it.

Dewey, thanks for your response. Do you really think that I get an advantage using the 300 RUM over the 7mm RUM. I have had great success with TSX and I am thinking 160 grains. I have been whacked a couple of times shooting from the prone position and am thinking that the 300 RUM and certainily the 338 RUM recoil would be quite a bit greater, but again, I might just be splitting hairs. I think I will put it in a laminate stock to increase the weight and have two swivel bases on the foreend: One for a tripod, the other for the swivel base. My other question, do other makers make an improved 700 action or am I just wasting my money. I tend to agree with you that 9.5 pounds sounds about right

My choice for what you describe would be a 340 Weatherby. My elk rifle is a .338WM as I prefer to be a little closer. I would step way up from any 7mm at any range but even more so from the ranges you mention. I shoot a 300 Wby. also, but for elk I'd rather have a 338 in my hands.

All depends what one considers longrange. If 550 is long range and one plans to wack elk out past 300 on a regular basis I would go with 8mm rem mag the 340 weatherby or the338 rum. Both well do well out there.

7MM STW or 7mm RUM will do. Good optics and lots of practice. Elevation is not the problem, any one can figure the hold overs or turret adjustments, its reading the wind that will get you. If you don't have a 600 yard range, then find one and go put lead down range. It's not that hard and you will be surprised at how easy it is to hit your mark.

I just love these questions where someone wants a long range shoot all kill all as far as I can see, as far as I can think with no reguard for true hunting whatsoever type post.

s weight or the rifle an issue? for a light arm the 340 or 338-378 would be a good choice. If it is a bench gun, why not a 50 cal browning if its legal in your state to hunt with.

I can't seem to get a day with no crosswind to try a shot that far. If your heart is set on such a rig, investigate 338 Lapua. Optics and a good rangefinder are essential to your plan. I would spring for a Nightforce scope for that kind of rig and really get used to shooting it.

.300magnum[Dak,weath,Rum]
#2, 26" 1:9"twist
177gnHV (.638bc) http://www.gsgroup.co.za/308177HV198.html

Punch in 3300mv & .638 bc on a ballistic calculator, and tell me its not enough.......

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat:
I am going to construct a Longrange Elk rifle. I use a 9.3 x 62 for most of my hunting, but where I hunt on a private ranch in Colorado, there is a unique spot that we alwsys leave alone to the last day if we haven't scored.

The country is wide open and it is a fairly easy hike to a ridge where there is a panaromic view of the basin below. Six hundred yard shots are certainily possible. I though loath to take such a shot, two years, I saw probably three hundred head of elk in that basin with probably ten bulls that were six point or better. Ranged 550 yards away was a monster. I just didn't feel comfortable shooting at him, but have thought about it for some time and since, I believe that this opportunity will come up again with either my son or myself, I think I will make a rifle for just this limited application.

Sorry for the long explanation, but here are my thoughts and would welcome those thoughts of people that have constructed such a rifle.

Since, it would be a prone shot and I don't like muzzle breaks, I think that it should be a smaller caliber, thus the 7mm Ultra. Since, I need top accuracy, although I personally like them, I think that it should be a Model 700 action. My first question is: Are there action makers that make an upgrade of the Model 700 action. My second question is: I am thinking a 28 inch barrel. Would it be advisable to have it fluted.

Any experienced thoughts will be appreciated.

1) Forget prone - Set up with a bench
2) Go with the M700 action and the 28" barrel
3) Use a 338 RUM
4) Use 250 grain SGK

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat:
Dewey, thanks for your response. Do you really think that I get an advantage using the 300 RUM over the 7mm RUM. I have had great success with TSX and I am thinking 160 grains. I have been whacked a couple of times shooting from the prone position and am thinking that the 300 RUM and certainily the 338 RUM recoil would be quite a bit greater, but again, I might just be splitting hairs. I think I will put it in a laminate stock to increase the weight and have two swivel bases on the foreend: One for a tripod, the other for the swivel base. My other question, do other makers make an improved 700 action or am I just wasting my money. I tend to agree with you that 9.5 pounds sounds about right

There ARE several custom actions similar to the 700 currently available, but, I am a hardcore CRF man and am not familiar with them by actual personal field use, so, cannot comment.

I would be quite careful as to WHO built my rifle, but, a .300 or .338 large magnum using NPs or another quality bullet will definitely do what you require. I have witnessed Elk killed at over 400 yds. with 140 NPs in the .264WM and with ONE shot, so, it is quite doable and simply requires the requisate skill and equipment....I can no longer shoot well enough to even consider attempting this and have no range to practice, but, it is feasible.

Recoil can be ameliorated by a Limbsaver, stock design and a brake and I really consider small bores a bit marginal in this situation, but, I am slightly more conservative than Barry Goldwater, so.........

My feeling is that a top smith can build on a modded 700 to the specs you need, but, Borden and other custom actions would be great, if, you can afford them.

I will not shoot over 300 and passed up a HAWG of an Elk on a costly trip in northern BC as he was over 400 and I just did not feel "right" although I was dead on him with my favourite .338WM. So, my opinion is that ya gotta have the right rifle and THEN be honest with yourself as to YOUR real abilities. HTH.

I built a 338 Lapua on the 700 action and set it up with a Seekins detatchable box magazine for a load over all length of 3.9".
I get 2791 FPS with the 300 grain SMK and 3197 FPS with the 250 grainer

I would go with one of the 300 Mags or a 340 Weatherby.

You need a good rangefinder, a good wind gage, and a good scope with either a ballistic cam [my favorite] or target knobs.

Then you need an accurate load and lots of practice.

When you can hit a sheet of typing paper, @8"x11", first round out, most all the time, at the distance you will see the elk, then you are ready to shoot an animal at that range.

As good as the 7mag is at 600 yards it is woefully outclassed by a fast 338. The big 338s have over twice the impact energy, half the windage adjustment(15" compared to 30"), and another 400 fps velocity to assist with bullet expansion.

You will need a heavy rifle capable of delivering reliable first shot cold bore hits. You will also need a angle (cosine) finder, a scope level, a reliable scope to dial in range adjustments, a come up chart or (more preferably) a palm device (such as Exbal or Nightforce), as well as a wind and environmental reporting device.

Just hitting a target is not good enough. You must be able to do it uphill, downhill, 10mph wind in your face, 3 mph wind from the 10:00 position and so on. And you must do it on the first shot.

It is doable, but it will take practice and dedication.

In no particular order:

1) 340 WBY
2) 338 RUM
3) 358 STA
4) 375 H&H or WBY
5) 338 Win

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
In no particular order:

1) 340 WBY
2) 338 RUM
3) 358 STA
4) 375 H&H or WBY
5) 338 Win

I agree but I might just add the .325 WSM. It looks good on paper but I've never used one. I'd like to.

I'd also look at a 338 caliber based round. I don't like to shoot long range, to me long range is under 500 yards. I won't bother with the ethical arguement for the over. I don't like it is all I'll say I'd choose a larger heavier bullet at slower speeds than something like a .284 bullet leaving a vapor trail. And of course practise a LOT.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
In no particular order:

1) 340 WBY
2) 338 RUM
3) 358 STA
4) 375 H&H or WBY
5) 338 Win

I agree but I might just add the .325 WSM. It looks good on paper but I've never used one. I'd like to.

Thanks! I don't have any experience with the WSMs, and don't know if I ever will. For some reason they just don't float my boat. Lou

I have acouple spot like that here in Co also I've been hunting that country since the 70's. Back then I shot a 300Wby with 180gr bullet and I never lost an elk very seldon did I have to take a second shoot. I shot prone rested rifle on my pack and I took a good shot otherwise I'd past.

When the range finders came out I range the longest at just over 615yds shortest to just over 500yds. Some years they won't be in there it's national forest that I hunt and you have to walk or ride in so it's a pack out if you get anything.

I'd look at the 340Wby at one time you kind of figure may need something bigger but I never had a problem with the 300Wby then when the 30-378Wby I got one of those it lasted one year. I still have a 300 Wby but it's been relpaced with a 300RUM. If I figured I'd need a 338 it would be the one off the 300RUM case that there doing on LR hunting site.

My biggest problem is I have to walk into the area like that it's really not a problem but I might see an elk going in or shorter yardage doesn't happen very often and I sure don't to be packing a heavy 28". barrel rifle.

That is why I almost always hunt Elk with one of my P-64 Mod. 70 Alaskans, synthetic stocked and loaded with 250NPs at a chronoed 2800 fps-mv. This will quickly kill a big bull at any range I can consistently hit him properly at and they weigh about 8.75 lbs., all up, thus are good for packing in.

But, if someone just wants to build up a highly specialized rifle for long range Elk, I agree, the .338RUM is about the most practical and can be housed in a wide variety of actions so you do not have to spend a small fortune on a custom whatever....again, unless you just want to.

Due to the antler regs., terrain, forest cover and plentiful Grizzlies here in BC's best Elk areas, I MUCH prefer a .338 bore with heavier bullets to any .284 bore and very seldom use any of my small bore rifles for Elk hunting. I like to go with what I find most practical for my situation and .338s just work for Elk.

I would add that you might want to log onto LongRangeHunting.com and see what the guys there have to say, as the previous poster mentioned, there is some useful info. there.

Schrodingers Cat ----- I have taken Elk with the following chamberings I consider ideal for long range shooting. .300 Winny, .340 Wby, .338 Lapua, .358 STA (2). My loads were respectfully 180 grain North Fork at 3100 fps, 225 grain North Fork at 3150 fps for both the .340 Wby and Lapua, 250 grain North Fork at 2950 fps and 270 grain North Fork at 2850 fps. I will put any of these up against anything else out there. Personally I put 350 yards as my limit, all my rifles will do the job further out but not my eyes. Good shootig.

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat:
Since, it would be a prone shot and I don't like muzzle breaks, I think that it should be a smaller caliber, thus the 7mm Ultra. Since, I need top accuracy, although I personally like them, I think that it should be a Model 700 action. My first question is: Are there action makers that make an upgrade of the Model 700 action. My second question is: I am thinking a 28 inch barrel. Would it be advisable to have it fluted.

Any experienced thoughts will be appreciated.

I would start with a Stiller Action (viper actions). I got a Tac-338 for my 338 Lapua Magnum. You can true a stock Remington action but, starting with a better action for the heart of your rifle is the best option.

I would get a larger diameter barrel and flute it over a thinner barrel. Heating and barrel whip could be an issue for you at the ranges you are planning to shoot.

Caliber choices? 300 or 338 Magnums are where I would look. Add a 26 to 28 inch long barrel and you will have a lot of thump for Elk at longer distances. I think a 7mm is going to be too light for heavy game animals at that range. You want something with more mass and frontal area so a less then ideal shot will still make a clean kill.

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
Personally I put 350 yards as my limit, all my rifles will do the job further out but not my eyes. Good shootig.

And many other parts of the human body. At 600 yds. the major limiting factor is the one behind the rifle.

There are, however, some considerations that do affect trajectory A LOT ;If for example the rifle were sighted in at a 100 yd. range in Key West, high density, moist air at 80 degrees vs. just below the mount of the Holy Cross at 9500 feet, crisp clear, 15 degrees, cold rifle cold ammo, target angle 37 degrees. 450 yd., well placed shot ? I'd certainly bet against it 2 out of 3 times.

Been there done that but didn't shoot. Did, however, get one a half hour later at 70 yds. roger

a 30 cal mag with a 200 partition is a minimum for long range shooting, the 338 mags are in a class of there own
you may want to wait for the 300 ruger/hornady magnum to come out...i think that will be the next one out , and what a great combo that will be, a 200 gn proj @ 3000fps in a rifle you can actually back pac with
Daniel

quote:

Been there done that but didn't shoot. Did, however, get one a half hour later at 70 yds

That's called elk hunting

I want to thank everybody that responded. I got a lot of information and that was what I wanted. Interestingly, I was nearly set on a 7mm Ultra Mag, but the amount of collective experience represented in the numerous responses suggests that I should step up to .308 to .338 caliber. The 338 Lapua seems to be on my radar now. To the writer who questioned the ethical ramifications of shooting 600 yards at an elk and not to open up controversial subject, suffice to say, I agree in part with you and consider the gun of very limited application, i.e., the particular location I hunt, there is no way in hell you can get closer. The elk are settled, grazing and watering. I have a perfect spot that I can shot from where I can take as much time as I want to set up. Someone suggested that shoot off a bench, that would be impractical to drag a bench up a ridge and I would clearly be seen on the horizon and I guess that takes me back to caliber. Since, my most steady shot would be from the prone position, and since I have whacked in the head a couple of times from that position, I am a little sensitive to a big 338 coming back and whacking my head and nose. I guess that is where the practice comes to you get comfortable with the big gun and can handle it. Thanks agains

I know I'm late but try http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/

300 grn lead conical....50 cal. Mzl ldr.

I guess I'm in the minority. I think you're fine with a 7mm Mag. A friend of mine was a sniper in Vietnam, we used to shoot at a range in Montana with targets on chains hung at 400, 500 and 600 yards. He'd hit the 600 yard target off hand with depressing regularity with his Rem 700 7mm Mag. Shooting with him was a humbling experience ... If you shoot the 7mm I'd go for the 175g bullet, more downrange energy and less wind drift, which is really what will get you, plus those damn uphill/downhill calculations ...

Good luck,

Chuck

Well, I happen to agree with chuck who just posterd, the 7 rum is plenty, but for a dedicated rig, go the 338 Lapua. As far as a rif 'whacking' you one, just make sure you've got the right length of pull, and your scope set up for maximum eye relief. Most folks I see that get scope bit, do so because the don't have the rifle in tight to their shoulder, give the rig more room to get coming at you the way I see it...

I would ABSOLUTELY go to a Remmy clone from somebody, Stiller, BAT, Nesika, Surgeon, to name a couple. Two other options I would look at seriously are an Ed Brown--which I call a semi-custom, and if weight is acceptable, and you don't mind a 'Tactical' style rig, I would probably just get a Sako TRG in 338 Lapua, stick some good optics on it, and call it good.

I have a TRG in 308 and it is ridiculously accurate. My cousin who was a sniper for a state police force, shoots a TRG in 338 Lapua for all kinds of stuff, and his only bitch is that it is heavy. I don't know the barrel length, but whatever the stock barrel length is on a TRG is what I would make the length on my rig.

quote:

I want to thank everybody that responded. I got a lot of information and that was what I wanted. Interestingly, I was nearly set on a 7mm Ultra Mag, but the amount of collective experience represented in the numerous responses suggests that I should step up to .308 to .338 caliber. The 338 Lapua seems to be on my radar now. To the writer who questioned the ethical ramifications of shooting 600 yards at an elk and not to open up controversial subject, suffice to say, I agree in part with you and consider the gun of very limited application, i.e., the particular location I hunt, there is no way in hell you can get closer. The elk are settled, grazing and watering. I have a perfect spot that I can shot from where I can take as much time as I want to set up. Someone suggested that shoot off a bench, that would be impractical to drag a bench up a ridge and I would clearly be seen on the horizon and I guess that takes me back to caliber. Since, my most steady shot would be from the prone position, and since I have whacked in the head a couple of times from that position, I am a little sensitive to a big 338 coming back and whacking my head and nose. I guess that is where the practice comes to you get comfortable with the big gun and can handle it. Thanks agains

You mentioned that you do not like muzzle brakes, but this is one case where it becomes a necessity. 300grains at 3000fps...the 416 Rem does the same thing FYI.
The other thing to consider is that the scope of choice is a 5.5-22X Nightforce. The Nightforce has 4"+ of eye relief at any magnification and will not hit you in the head.

Set up on a Harris bipod with a bean bag under the buttstock and given perfect shooting conditions I can easily hit a 5" gong every time at 600 yards. I have shot against a fellow that can hit a clay pigeon at 800 yards most every time in most any reasonable weather condition. This with 14-16 pound rifles.

Those that doubt this should have a look over at Long Range Hunting. There are guys shooting game at 1500yards or more over there....600 yards is a chip shot for these guys.
Drag a proper shooting bench to a hunting location and it will probably end up in the wrong spot. That said I know guys that set up comfortable/solid shooting positions and make it work...That never worked for me, but it is worth consideration nonetheless.


Aside from the 338Lapua another good choice is the 338Edge, or 338Ultra. This allows a Remington action platform which saves considerably in weight and cost....These things tend to get expensive.

As I mentioned before bullet selection is everything. Using a 180 30cal gives 30 inches of wind drift and 1500Ftlbs of energy while selecting a 200grain bullet affords close to 20 inches of drift and almost 1900Ftlbs. Velocity is also up from 1800fps to 2050fps helping with expansion....At least worthy of consideration.

FYI the Sako TRG 42 in 338 Lapua has a 12" twist barrel...Restricting the owner to 250 grain bullets.

338 RUM with a 250 gr AB at 2950 fps MV.

JD338

just thought I would stirr the pot a bit... ................................................Why not use a 416 Barrett?!! Then you could double the distance.

Whatever you decide on, the #1 thing that will make the most difference is HOW MUCH YOU PRACTICE IN ALL POSSIBLE SITUATIONS!! If you go afield with an intercontinental ballistic missile and have no idea how to range the intended target and deliver the load it makes no difference.

I worked with a guy that routinely made 1200 yd 1st shot kills on deer with a .264Mag. Mickey had that gun for decades! He knew it well. He practiced a great deal.

Be dedicated on the range and hunt with confidence!

With all due respect to Schrodingers Cat, where is the hunt? Instead of trying to shoot a bull at 550 yards, perhaps a stalk, or being in an ambush spot prior to the elks arrival in the spot they seem to frequent and take your shot? I appreciate fine markmanship, and think it should be something that each of us who goes afield should posess, but I think one should try to "hunt" the animal. I really try and see others perspectives, but maybe if the goal is to shoot an animal at long range, a game farm might be more suitable.

We hunt where we like to hunt, and if his area is somewhat flat and open with no ways to ambush or stalk, no reason to inject the "you're not a hunter" attitude. If its either learn to shoot long distances, or never fill my tag, I'd learn to shoot those long distances.

A large capacity 7mm will be just fine if you go with high BC 175's (scirocco II, accubond, TTSX, MR-X, Interbond) or the Berger 180 VLD. A RUM, STW, 7/300Wby or one of the Lazzeroni offerings will be just fine, and the heavy 7mm bullets have the same or high SD needed to penetrate as a 308 or 338 bullets. Plus, less recoil. If you do go with a larger caliber, get a REMOVABLE muzzle brake. That way you can spend all the time you want on the range (be carefull with barrel heating on high intensity carts) without developing a flinch or pounding your shoulder. Unscrew it when you're in the field, best of both worlds.

After saying all that, first thing that came to mind when I read the first post was the 300 Wby. With a good 180gr it'll do juuuust fine for what you want, without excessive recoil, cost of action modification (like a Lapua or 378 based case) or high cost of brass/ammo, not to mention the cost of powder if you reload, when you're dumping over 100gr's of powder per cartridge.

Your original decision not to shoot at that range was a good one.You should be proud of it and stick to it-that is not hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
Your original decision not to shoot at that range was a good one.You should be proud of it and stick to it-that is not hunting.

Why is it not hunting? If it is a distance issue, then would using "Spears" and or throwing "rocks "be more to your liking. The distance would certainly have to be close.
At what distance does "hunting" become "not hunting"?

Any distance is hunting if one happens to be relying on the kill to appease hunger..