I have a 7mmRUM and it fussier to load for than either my 300RUM or 338RUM.

In addition I can't tell any real difference in recoil in the 7mm with 160's than a 300 with 180's.

For long distance shooting they both need a brake,..........so it comes down to what you like. The 7mm bullets have better BC but there is a better selection of 30 caliber projectiles.

Personally I'd go for the 300RUM.

378 weatherby with 270 TSX bullets!

Ahh! I feel another 378 thread coming on!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
Your original decision not to shoot at that range was a good one.You should be proud of it and stick to it-that is not hunting.

Why is it not hunting? If it is a distance issue, then would using "Spears" and or throwing "rocks "be more to your liking. The distance would certainly have to be close.
At what distance does "hunting" become "not hunting"?

Why would you not call it execution? There is no stealth involved.
Or would you rather buy a big piece of technology so you don't have to exercise any stealth?

I would choose the 300 Rem Ultra. Thats the rifle I killed 4 plains game in Africa with the longest shot was 280yds and I aimed right on.
So I know it can shoot to 550yds.

I have shot a Caribou at 450 yards with my 340 Weatherby that dropped him in his tracks. I would feel comfortable with the same gun at extended ranges on Elk.
With the caribou I was using a 225gr Jensen at 3080 FPS. Jensen was the first company to make a (Accubond / Scoricco) type bonded core tipped bullet in the 80's.

EZ

338-378 Wby. This was designed as a long range big game cartridge. At that range either the 225 grain Barnes TTSX or 250 grain Partition would still be travelling at close to 2500 fps. I have an Accumark so chambered and it is quite accurate. Yes, without the muzzle brake it has a noticeable recoil (roughly 55 lbs). Leave the brake on, use some electronic muffs and there is no issue.

One thing to remember, hunting at that range requires MUCH practice so that you are MORE then comfortable taking the shot when it counts.

By the way, if you decide on either a Lapua or Weatherby, the brass and factory ammo is pricey. I reload so it's no real issue once you have brass on hand.

Ken....

All the talk about what caliber, what rifle, is it even ethical aside, I assume you will have a spotter with a good spotting scope to call your shot? If you've shot a few elk you might have noticed that on occation they show little or no sign of being hit. Unless your new rifle is extremely heavy it will "bounce" off target on recoil and you will not be able to call your own shot. Or do you simply plan to lob rounds at the elk until he drops or you run out of ammo?

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Any distance is hunting if one happens to be relying on the kill to appease hunger..

How much beef rib eye could you get for what a hunt costs. When I lived in Grand Junction and was feeding 6 kids your statement was appropo. Today with the group on this thread I doubt that the prime idea is to put meat on the table. roger

In the early 70s we would take our elk rifles out to my friends ranch and shoot prarie dogs at 300 yards. I shot my 270 with 90g Sierra HPBTs my friend shot his 30-06. If you can hit a prarie dog at 300, you should be able to hit an elk's vitals at 500. That being said only one of my dozen or so elk was shot at 300 yards, the rest were under 30.

Regards,

Chuck

FWIW I used to hunt elk in Colo in a very similar situation shooting from one ridge to the other across canyons. Shots were typically 400yds+. Got a 300RUM M700. Off the shelf it would push a 180gr TSX to 3400fps VERY accurately. If you have the time and can always put in your ear plugs you can install a muzzle break. But I guarantee you the first time you get that quick shot sneaking thru the trees and shoot this rig without hearing protection, you will saw the SOB off like I did. Recoil is temporary discomfort, hearing loss is forever.

On the cheap, I'd go for an M700 SPS in .300 RUM. Good price, 26" barrel, more than enough power to do the job. More money, I'd probably go with a .300-.378 Weatherby in an Accumark. The M700 XCR is a good price, too, in .300 RUM. Even a used .300 Weatherby will do the trick, as would a stoutly loaded Win Mag, I believe.

quote:

Why would you not call it execution? There is no stealth involved.
Or would you rather buy a big piece of technology so you don't have to exercise any stealth?

I bow hunt with both a recurved and compound bows...After bow hunting any rifle requires a complete lack of stealth.

The reason I sometimes hunt a long range is because it is one more challenging aspect of hunting....The more different types and styles of hunting I try the more I realize that hunting is hunting and while killing might be the ultimate goal it is only one minor reason of many reasons we are out there.


Big bore or small bore, 30/30 or 30/378, lever action or bolt action, bow hunt or long range hunt, been there done that and I still call it hunting no matter how or what I hunt with.

Here is a picture of my 338Edge.
At 16 pounds it isn't my preferred stalking rifle!
I also have a 8 3/4 pound 338Edge for the "close shots"....The light Edge has no brake.

I would recommend a 300 Ultramag. I believe you'd be safe with your choice but a little more is always better.

A remmy action with a 28" target contour Lilja would be fine in a laminated stock, add a Pachmayer decelerator, Nightforce or Leupold scope in badger ordnance rings/bases.

As heavy as practical a bullet and tons more practice from the shooting position you plan to use and yes, a spotter is an absolute must.

The walk alone to the shot site and find blood will kill a lot of time so a friend to spot and help stalk after if need be is a definite plus.

I think a TSX is just a tad too tough a bullet. I like the Swift Scirrocco II's (personal favorite) along with Accubonds or Interbonds.

And once again, tons of practice. That part can't be stressed enough.

Watch this. 743 yard elk, 7mm Rem Mag, 168 Berger VLD. You don't need anything bigger.

On this video, you'll see a bull elk taken at 925 yards with a 140 Berger VLD from a 6.5x284. It will begin at about minute 4:26.

You can be the judge of how much firepower you need to take an elk at long range. FWIW, I do own a 300 RUM.

That Berger has a great BC and if you zero for long range you are in business, as Doc says...

And you will need a spotter as HM says...

I've used the Nosler CC 168's in my 300RUM and they work fine on long range 'roos ( not the same size as elk ) The 168 TTSX might be a good choice too.........

The only drawback to the Barnes bullets with grooves in their shank is it does lower BC a little. Still, to 600 yards, there shouldn't be a problem.

Good point.........

If you like the 7mm rum by all means go with it. IMO the 700 sendero sf2 is the ticket.26in fluted tube not light but not too heavy.Buy the best optics you can afford you will be glad you did.Also IMO the 168gr berger vld is THE bullet.It is outstanding at the ranges you are describing.You need nothing bigger.(IMO)

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by wombat:
Your original decision not to shoot at that range was a good one.You should be proud of it and stick to it-that is not hunting.

Why is it not hunting? If it is a distance issue, then would using "Spears" and or throwing "rocks "be more to your liking. The distance would certainly have to be close.
At what distance does "hunting" become "not hunting"?

Why would you not call it execution? There is no stealth involved.
Or would you rather buy a big piece of technology so you don't have to exercise any stealth?

What arbitrary distance does it sease to be hunting? How much Stealth is required to be considered hunting? If one is undetectable to radar is that enough "stealth"?
Is it hunting at 25 Yards and not at 50 yards? What is the distance limit?

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
378 weatherby with 270 TSX bullets!

Ahh! I feel another 378 thread coming on!

LOL, good one.
I have to agree with most of everyone here.
Something in a 338 cal would be the ticket. 225gr bullet and away you go.
My preference is the 340 wby but thats just a personal choice.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
What arbitrary distance does it sease to be hunting?
Is it hunting at 25 Yards and not at 50 yards? What is the distance limit?

If hunting was to be judged to be so,,say, according to bow distances, then many a number of the moral preeching rifle hunters would have to shamefully admit they they have been mostly just shooting all their life....to avoid this they self justify their own personally chosen longer(than bow hunting distance) limit, to be the moral std. by which all persons should then be judged,.. but then have the hypocritical hide to judge or condemn others who exceed that limit.
Interesting how people like to judge people according to their own selective standards, but often dont like it when they be judged or condemned by anothers.
...Judge not lest ye yourself be judged.

quote:

Originally posted by x-man:
..I bow hunt with both a recurved and compound bows...After bow hunting any rifle requires a complete lack of stealth.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwp475:

"if the American people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched". quote from a speech of George H.W Bush in 1992
Most honest thing he ever said. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Henry Hoover:
If you like the 7mm rum by all means go with it. IMO the 700 sendero sf2 is the ticket.26in fluted tube not light but not too heavy.Buy the best optics you can afford you will be glad you did.Also IMO the 168gr berger vld is THE bullet.It is outstanding at the ranges you are describing.You need nothing bigger.(IMO)

I agree with this, but I think for a new LR hunter the fast 338s gives a bit of extra insurance in both wind error and horsepower on impact.

One of the problems with the 338s is that they are very expensive to shoot so you will need a practice rifle....A fast twist 223 loaded with the 75gr Amax is my personal favorite.

What about a CZ550 in 338 Lapua?
Should be good to go farther than you can see with the naked eye.

Rich
Buff Killer

Looking at 7mmrMag 168 boatail 3100mv drifts about 13.5" at 500yd
.338 250boatail 3100mv drifts about .7" less,
600yd drift(10mph cw): 7mm 19.83", .338 18.75"

unless a guy can handle recoil of a fast 338, then the possible error in shot placement due to flich could far negate any advantage the fast 338 initially offered in reduced drift.
I still like the idea of .300mag 177gn HV (.638bc) in the 3000-3300mv range.
But by all means, pack all the power you can contently carry & accurate shoot.

Two years ago I saw a huge bull elk killed by a little woman with a baby and a 243.

She told me she shot in just the right place at 200 yards, and it staggered around for 10 yards while she put two more rounds in him.

This year I killed 3 deer and 400, 400, and 500 yards with a 270.
I was not able to hit elk that were walking along at 625 yards with the 270.

While I was there I saw a guy that weighted 125 pounds with a 7mmMag that had a big bull.

I met a guy that has shot close to 40 elk in close to 40 years and kept statistics. He says he has walked an average of 10 miles per day and hunted an average of 8 days per elk. There for he has walked an average of 80 miles per elk. The guy is 75 years old, carries a 7mmMag, and can keep up with me.

I have lots of 7mmMags, and I guess I will carry one next year.
Maybe I will actually hit an elk this time.

Next year I will have shot at a target further than 100 yards. The nearest 600 yard range is 200 miles from here, but I don't want to miss any more elk.

I have to agree with Trax here. Horsepower applys to both ends of the rifle.
If you know someone who has a rifle in the caliber you want,see if they will let you shoot a couple of rounds.Dont spend the money HOPING you can tolerate the recoil.KNOW you can. Dont just shoot in the standing position,recoil is much easier because the body can move. Shoot it prone like you said you would be hunting. Lots of difference. Good luck with the elk.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
Next year I will have shot at a target further than 100 yards. The nearest 600 yard range is 200 miles from here, but I don't want to miss any more elk.

Come spend 3 or 4 days and shoot with me. We'll set you up with 100 to 1000 yards. I certainly hope you missed that elk. I know I've passed up shots closer than 450 yds. I'd rather haul a couple rib steaks out of the freezer than haul an Elk out of even a shallow wash or track one for 8 miles roger.

I see a lot of suggestions for the 300RUM, which is a good choice. I still think I'd opt for a 300 Wby (which I did lol) as the real performance isn't really that great. At the same time...a 300 Win ain't no slouch either. But, THIS is one of those discussions where 100-200fps really DOES make the difference in delivered ft-lbs of energy and drop at long ranges.

Many good suggestions for the fast 33's but dang, those things even with a brake are still going to rock your world a bit. I liked the earlier qoute of recoil is a quick passing discomfort but hearing loss is forever....or something along those lines....but, I again recomend a REMOVABLE muzzle brake, most are these days anyways. Yes, they're loud and produce one hell of a concussion at the range, but a flinch developed from range sessions can last a lifetime as well, and can cost an animal at any range let alone the 400-600 yards area.

Whatever you choose, if its big and fast, get the brake! And order the thread protector, use the brake practicing (which you will need tons of) and unscrew it when you get to camp. I think the extra 250$ for a REMOVABLE break and thread cap, is worth its weight in gold if the end result is lots of practice, no flinch, and not toting around a 12lbs rifle in elk country

quote:

Originally posted by Harold R. Stephens:
7MM STW or 7mm RUM will do. Good optics and lots of practice. Elevation is not the problem, any one can figure the hold overs or turret adjustments, its reading the wind that will get you. If you don't have a 600 yard range, then find one and go put lead down range. It's not that hard and you will be surprised at how easy it is to hit your mark.

Yes it becomes easy with practice.
I can only practice out to a little over 375, but that gets easier and easier.

A friend has a 7mm/378 that is an amazing tool.
He regularly practices at ranges exceeding 600 yards (up to 800 yards) and has killed elk with this at ranges over 600 yards. At least two were one shot kills.

His new "Super Seven" drops them like a bad habit.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry Hoover:
I have to agree with Trax here. Horsepower applys to both ends of the rifle.
If you know someone who has a rifle in the caliber you want, see if they will let you shoot a couple of rounds. Dont spend the money HOPING you can tolerate the recoil.
KNOW you can. Dont just shoot in the standing position, recoil is much easier because the body can move.
Shoot it prone like you said you would be hunting. Lots of difference.
Good luck with the elk.

Sage advice here.

One guy I know locally fiddled around with all sorts of rifles and calibers for elk....

He finally picked up a 338/378 when they came out... he uses that with a 250 grain Barnes bullet for about everything now....

he only weights about 130 lbs.. and it sports a muzzle break of course...

he's offered to let me shoot it, but I see no reason for doing so...

he has a Leupold 4.5 x 14 with a B & C reticle on it... last couple of elk he has taken in Colorado and New Mexico were in excess of 500 yds....but boom flop...

Can´t go wrong with the 8x68S.

Lotsa cartridges are up to the challenge of a 600 yard shot. Not a whole lot of shooters are up for it however.
If you're not willing to practice, practice, practice with your weapon of choice --from whatever field positions you will be confronted with, from whatever distances you will be shooting from, you might as well forgetaboutit.
No cartridge is gonna make up for a lousy shot nor one who is afraid of the beast they're shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:
I have a 7mmRUM and it fussier to load for than either my 300RUM or 338RUM.

In addition I can't tell any real difference in recoil in the 7mm with 160's than a 300 with 180's.

For long distance shooting they both need a brake,..........so it comes down to what you like. The 7mm bullets have better BC but there is a better selection of 30 caliber projectiles.

Personally I'd go for the 300RUM.

In practical terms there is NO difference in range between a 7mmRUM and a 300RUM, because if you look carefully at loading tables bullets of the same Sectional density (and same BC) leave the muzzle at the same speed from either rifle with max loads.

IF I were buying a rifle to do that kind of work I'd be thinking either a 338RUM or a
338-378WBY

AD

S. Cat.
Based on my own experience in culling red deer (smaller than elk ), an R-93 Blaser , in cal 8x68S is an excellent medicine. No waiting for the rifle to be built, just out of the box incredible accuracy , manageable recoil, and an efficient killer at those distances. I used a Leupold scope with mildot reticle and trained for it. Learning to cope with the wind was the most difficoult part ; but there are good manuals to learn the basics.
Pulki.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Looking at 7mmrMag 168 boatail 3100mv drifts about 13.5" at 500yd
.338 250boatail 3100mv drifts about .7" less,
600yd drift(10mph cw): 7mm 19.83", .338 18.75"

unless a guy can handle recoil of a fast 338, then the possible error in shot placement due to flich could far negate any advantage the fast 338 initially offered in reduced drift.

Yes.

8mm Remington Magnum with a 28 inch barrel shooting 200 grain Barnes TSX bullets.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

At what distance does "hunting" become "not hunting"?

When you make a shot 10 yards past my longest shot.

8x68 -yes. Blaser -no