Okay, so we all know that both Swift and Nosler produce bonded, polymer-tipped bullets (Scirocco and Accubond respectively), as well as dual-core bullets (A-Frame and Partition, respectively). My question to you guys is, which brand performs better, both in terms of accuracy and terminal performance? Obviously Nosler is a little cheaper than Swift: are the Swift bullets worth the extra money?

I'm not wanting to stir up hard feelings, but I'm curious as to what the answers will be.

Davis

Question:
Swift versus Nosler: Which manufacturer produces superior bullets?

Choices:
Swift
Nosler
They're both equal

 

I did not vote. I am not a fan of the tipped bullets. I tried the trophy bonded tip and had the tip come off in the magazine and jammed on me while feeding. I tossed them all and shoot triple shocks with no tip.

I've used Nosler Partitions in 257;284;308;338 calibers for decades. They work. I'd like a little better grouping from them, but dual cores have limitations in CG/CM consistency.
I've used Swift A frames in 257;284;338;416;458 calibers...they work BUT seem to hold their weight retention a little better than Nosler (3-5%pts) AND in my rifles produce a tad better grouping performance (for a dual core design).
Bob

I switched to A-Frames about ten years ago and never found a reason to go back to Nosler.

My personal experience with A-Frames is that they are more accurate than Nosler partitions and they don't shed the front core like the partitions do.....The A-Frames are IMO clearly a superior bullet.....

As to Scirocco.....the Jury is still out on these for me.....They seem equal to the Accubonds but I'm more comfortable with Accubonds....

Aframe over partition.

AB over Scirocco. This is only because the Scirocco is a bit more picky, and has a pure copper jacket, thus, it can foul more readily.

I have not shot a lot of Sciroccos, but when I have attempted, I have personally had little luck getting them to shoot. In contrast, the Nosler AccuBonds have shot well for me in almost all the rifles where I have tried them. YMMV...

- mike

I voted they are equal, in that between the AF and NP it depends IMO on the game being hunted. Anything smaller then buffalo and a NP will do just fine and more then fine nearly perfect. I see reasons why people choose AF, but I switch to Barnes TSX when the hunting heavier game. When choosing between the Accubonds and Sciroccos I have had such good success with the Accubonds I see no reason to try the Sciroccos. So I did not have a comparison.

quote:

I have not shot a lot of Sciroccos, but when I have attempted, I have personally had little luck getting them to shoot. In contrast, the Nosler AccuBonds have shot well for me in almost all the rifles where I have tried them. YMMV...

+1

I have only used Nosler...

I voted equal. I get better accuracy with AB then Scirrocos. I got better accuracy from the first Scirroco when they went and changed them I cannot get good accuracy. I agree that the A-frame is a better bullet and I have had good results. For me though I use the partition because of cost.

I voted equal, but not really. It depends on use IMO. I like the NP for an all round bullet choice w/ heavy for caliber bullets. I would choose the Swift for tougher game or higher impact vel. or lighter for caliber use. Both can be extremely accurate, every rifle is diff.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:
My personal experience with A-Frames is that they are more accurate than Nosler partitions and they don't shed the front core like the partitions do...QUOTE]

That might not always be the case. That A-frame I shot my moose with looks a lot like pics I have seen people post of the Partitions.

Granted, the A-frame I recovered went through a lot of bone, but it certainly smeared off the front core.

I'll post a pic or two of the bullet when I get a little time.

friar

Friar,
I absolutely want to see that photo....I do believe you but I've never (yet) seen a photo of a "failed" A-Frame.....I have seen quire a few partitions with the front cores missing.....as a matter of fact, it happens so often that some folks post that it's "supposed to" shed it's core.....and I'm not buying that for a minute.....

Well, not the best pics (el cheapo cell phone), but you can see the generalities.

Again, it's a 150 gr. .277 A-frame. Quarter and Dime for reference.

Muzzle velocity was about 3030ish fps; distance at impact was about 242 yards; not up or down significantly; about 1200 ft above sea level.

Maybe impact velocity was in the neighborhood of 2500 fps?

Bullet penetrated both shoulders and probably broke the spine too. Moose dropped at the shot.

Interesting, huh? I don't consider it to have failed or acted abnormally - just the cost of going through so much hide, muscle, and bone!

And a memory of a lifetime!

friar

quote:

Granted, the A-frame I recovered went through a lot of bone, but it certainly smeared off the front core.

It certainly looks like you described it perfectly.....smeared off is right!

quote:

Bullet penetrated both shoulders and probably broke the spine too. Moose dropped at the shot.

Vapo, we'll have to get together and have beer before the seasons begin in earnest!

I'll look over my schedule when I get into the office tomorrow and PM you.

friar

quote:

Originally posted by friarmeier:


Bullet penetrated both shoulders and probably broke the spine too. Moose dropped at the shot.

Interesting, huh? I don't consider it to have failed or acted abnormally - just the cost of going through so much hide, muscle, and bone!

And a memory of a lifetime!

friar

What a lovely failure roger

quote:

My personal experience with A-Frames is that they are more accurate than Nosler partitions and they don't shed the front core like the partitions do.....

That is very useful to me. Thank you for posting it. I have a prejuduice against trying Nosler Partition becuase of this front core shedding issue.

So I am going to try Remington Core Lokt Ultra Bonded to see if they are better.

Out of interest, please, what is the retained weight of the Swift A Frame that "failed" in the pictures above?

They both are the best bullet when used in different applications. On thin skinned critters the nosler Part. is the better choice it expands much better than the Swift and weight retention is 72-80%. When hunting heavier boned thick skinned critters the Swift bullet rules it retains 90-95% bullet weight. Accuracy wise I think both the partition and the a-frame are equal from my findings, as far as the polymer bullets they offer I prefer the nosler.

Accuracey ...what may be accurate in one rifle may not be accurate in another rifle, accuracey is an individual thing...so thats a mute question
As far as which proj is better, there both pretty good, but i have had both loose there rear core when shot into heavey bone, and the nosler is designed to loose its front core, thats part of the reason its so effective

Daniel

I'm a Nosler guy. Love the AB especially. So far I only have had trouble getting a 35WheelenAI to shoot them under MOA. But still working on that!! Apparently they like to be driven real hard in the 35 W AI

I've been shooting Nosler bullets since the Mid 1950s. Yeah, I'm a fan. I like the new accubonds and shoot them as oFten as I do Partitions.

Noslers are not "super bullets" they don't do it all. However, when driven within their design parameters they simply do, what they say they will do, every time! I have never had a tereminal ballistics failure of a Nosler bullet.

If they made a .408 400 grain and a .423 400 grain bullet, then I'd be set for everything I shoot with!

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

My personal experience with A-Frames is that they are more accurate than Nosler partitions and they don't shed the front core like the partitions do.....

That is very useful to me. Thank you for posting it. I have a prejuduice against trying Nosler Partition becuase of this front core shedding issue.

So I am going to try Remington Core Lokt Ultra Bonded to see if they are better.

Out of interest, please, what is the retained weight of the Swift A Frame that "failed" in the pictures above?

I load and use both SAFs and NPs and they are great bullets, however, I have shot most of my game with NPs and consider them THE standard of excellent big game bullet performance. I have punched them clear though good size bull Elk and one does not lose much meat on even the smallest deer, IME.

I have also used Remington bullets and will not use them by choice, although some are OK for deer. My hunting is done where close range Grizzly encounters are a commonplace feature of bush life and I will have a bullet loaded that I KNOW from experience WILL penetrate the chest of a big bruin and wreck his clockwork....Nosler Pt. have done this so often and so well, that I stick with them.

I have some Scirrocos, but, have not shot them and my AB loads out of my custom HVA-4100-7mm Mauser yesterday were mediocre and yet, this old rifle, with many rounds down it's stubby tube, still does a .75" with 140NPs anytime I shoot it. To me, this is the way to go.

I use the Nozler ballistic tips for almost everything up to and including Elk.They simply are the most accurate bullets I have used to date.I tried the Scirocco in my 338 and was disappointed in their accuracy and performance on game.While not the most accurate bullets the Partitions do everything you want them to.I found that the Combined technology partitions to be very accurate in my Rifles.I have never used A-Frames and can make no comment on them.

I use A frames and partitions. The A frames are a bit tougher and worth the extra money to me. I do not use the plastic tipped bullets at all.

I am interested in sectioning a 416 partition as well as a 375 (length wise).
I am not so sure that these bullets along with their 458 are not built more along the lines of the old partition golds where the partition is moved forward enabling the bullet to loose a little less weight after it has shed its front core.
An easier way may be to just call Nosler and ask.
I have seen some of my own 416's shot at 2400 FPS and someone else recently posted some 500 gr 458's that did not appear to shed near as much of the front area as a typical NPT.

EZ

I second Dirklawyer. That has been my experience as well. Aframes don't expand very much, if at all on soft tissue at normal velocities but they crunch up bones and keep on going..

I have not shot enough Accubonds or Sciroccos to compare one to the other but I have shot a lot of NPs anD SAFs. With the latter 2 I don't think we are comparing apples to apples. The NP tends to have a frangible front portion of the bullet that usually comes unglued on impact causing extensive soft tissue damage while the rear portion continues to penetrate and often exits. The SAF almost always retains most of its expanded front portion. It does not cause the extensive tissue damage that the NP does nor does it penetrate as far given equal weight bullets and similiar velocities.

Up until a few years ago when I started using the TSX I literally shot 99% of everything with NPs or SAFs. In my opinion whichever bullet shoots better in your rifle you should use. I think if we split hairs that NPs work better on lighter game and SAFs on big stuff. They both work great!

Mark

I've used both NP and AF, and prefer the A Frame as it causes less tissue damage and stays together. Both are good bullets, both give good hunting accuracy, and both put game in the bag. A Frames rock and are a very tough act to follow, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

eezridr, Your assessment is correct. The partition on the bigger bullets IS moved forward to shed less weight. I've seen pictures of the 416 and it's moved way forward.
Vapo, as for the partition losing it's front, so what. I have recovered partitions in 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30 and 338 cals from Elk, deer nilgai and hogs. I have to shoot the damn things lengthwise to keep the bullets in the body. How much penetration do you need ? The 25 cal went in a on facing whitetails neck and was uncovered under the hide in her ham. Yes, the front core is gone, she went straight down. The 27 went thru a 6 in mesquite tree on its way thru a hog, otherwise it would have exited the hog. Even IF the partition was not designed to lose its front core, it damn sure makes it kill well. I have no problem w/ swifts, I just have never seen the need to change.

Well I can assure EVERYONE that the Scirocco is one heck of a black bear bullet inside of 100 yards. I know the bullet was designed for longer range stuff but I shot a smallish black bear at 9 yards with a 180 from my .06 and it destroyed the onside shoulder, exited and dropped the bear. The next year, not a mile away from the first stand, I killed a bigger bear with a 338 Win Mag and 225 factory AB CT from Winchester and it worked great but didn't exit.

I have been using Nosler NPs since 1962. I have complete confidence in them. They are designed to shed the front core in the vitals to allow the bullet to penetrate deeply.

The above posters are correct in that the larger calibers .375 and above have the partition moved forward and they will penetrate very deeply on large animals. Ballistic Tips, Accubond and Partitions in that order go from most accurate to less accurate in most rifles. But the Partitions will shoot from 1 to 1 1/2" in all of my rifles. That is plenty good enough for shots out to 400 yards. Pick a Partition of a suitable weight and caliber for the animals you are hunting and you will not be disappointed.

465H&H

quote:

Vapo, as for the partition losing it's front, so what. I have recovered partitions in 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30 and 338 cals from Elk, deer nilgai and hogs. I have to shoot the damn things lengthwise to keep the bullets in the body. How much penetration do you need ?

I'd say you have a valid argument.....dead is still dead......

I shot off an e-mail to Nosler earlier today to verify what the larger caliber partitions are designed to retain in the way of weight after shedding the front core. When I hear back, I will post the reply.
I have never witnessed the back shank of any NPT I recovered bulging as do swifts. In fact the ones I have recovered have been from dirt embankments or logs. I think I have only recovered one NPT from a game animal in my life.
I suppose the swift jacket is a softer material.
In the next few weeks I may shoot some more 375 and 416's NPT's into some dirt mounds and see what the recovered weight is after the front end is gone.
I will be shooting the 300 gr 375 out of a 375 Wea. at 2800 FPS @ the muzzle. That will be a test!
BTW; Nosler is proud of their 458 caliber 500 gr partitions at $100 / Box.
EZ

I received a brief note back from Nosler as that the larger caliber NPT's are designed for great weight retention than smaller calibers but no specific details.
Looks like some experimenting to do. Looking forward to new details as that it appears that all are considered maintaing about 60-65% of the initial weight.
It will be good to get a new perspective on this bullet in larger calibers and its capabilities.

EZ

If I remember correctly this 500 grain .458 Partition was recovered from a buffalo and retained around 83% of weight. A DRT buff.

465H&H

I think we are all spitting hairs here. The bullets are so similar that it is not a practical comparison and their effects are equal on game. Ford vs Chevy