I have never played around with Sciroccos but the ABs shot quite small groups with my CZ 9.3x62.I was two for two-- leopard and impala this summer.On the same hunt, I killed two buffalo witih low shoulder/heart shots .416 400 A Frames. I shot both again after the initial shots but they weren't necessary.

Dick Gunn

"In looking back on it, I don't think I ever was the man I used to be..."
Mac Dowell,
Sage of the Sand Plum Thickets

I much prefer to work up "one" bullet/load, for the gun that i hunt with, then using it for EVERYTHING i will hunt with that gun. This is why i much "prefer" the NP's, as that soft nose makes for a bullet that will work on smaller aminals, and longer shots. And the same bullet will work perfectly on the biggest game i will hunt with that same gun/load.

With my "go to gun", i've shot everything from moose and bear to coyotes and havolina using the same bullet/load, and the NP's expand some even on coyotes, yet give plenty of penetration on moose and bear.

That's PERFECT performance in my book, and why i stick with them! Ya just gotta love the velocity spread that NP's will work at, every time!

DM

Enfieldspares,

I sent the A-frame pictured over to a friend yesterday (Thursday) to be weighed. Will let you know (and maybe post better pics) when I have the results.

friar

I sent a few samples of various 416 projectiles to Michael458 to do some comparative testing on softs . He has completed and posted some of the results on page 92 of his terminal performance thread on the Big Bore forum. His test medium is not exactly wild game but it is consistant. So far he has tested the following softs; 400 TSX, 400 NPT, 400 Swift A frame, 400 Hornady interbond. The TSX, Swift and NPT all penetrated the same amount; 21-23". The NPT actually penetrated the deepest at 23". The heavier caliber NPT's retain +80% of their initial weight after shedding the front core. I would not say the standard across the board for the NPT's is 63% any longer. Results are posted and photographed with weight retention posted as well. I am in the camp that that front end letting go lends to a greater initial shock and internal destruction. You may note the Swift A frame and the TSX did retain about 100% of their initial weight.
They are all good projectiles! The Hornady interbond expanded very large and about 14" in the medium. Probably a great cat load!

EZ

Here's the A-frame again; friend just weighed it: 134.4 gr.

Initial weight 150 gr. .277 cal.

Retention: approx. 89%

friar

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to do that. It seems that it may be what I need to do the job.

I use Hornady but for hunting I use partitions

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:


If I remember correctly this 500 grain .458 Partition was recovered from a buffalo and retained around 83% of weight. A DRT buff.

465H&H

Are you sure that is NOT an A-frame???

I have tried Sciroccos a couple of times. Each time...could not get less than 1.5" groups. For hunting...really just fine. I just like tigher groups.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:


If I remember correctly this 500 grain .458 Partition was recovered from a buffalo and retained around 83% of weight. A DRT buff.

465H&H

Are you sure that is NOT an A-frame???

Odds favor this being an A-Frame for sure!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:


If I remember correctly this 500 grain .458 Partition was recovered from a buffalo and retained around 83% of weight. A DRT buff.

465H&H

Are you sure that is NOT an A-frame???

Odds favor this being an A-Frame for sure!

I would bet on it.

If it were a Swift A frame there would be lead smeared on the petals that have folded back. It is a NPT. The entire front core of the A frame is bonded to the copper jacket. You would not typically see the copper expose on the petals from the interior of the bullet if it were fused to the core. This particular unit did not entirely shed its front core.
BTW; A NPT is a A frame design.

I'm w/ eez on this one.

When you look at the pics of the big bullet, you can clearly see the upper lead core has a "gap" or separation from the upper copper jacket.

You can see that thin line of a gap on the right side of the expanded bullet.

My A-frame (significantly smaller as it is), has no "gap". The front core lead (what's still there, anyway) adhears tightly to the copper jacket.

I'll post a better picture of my bullet this evening.

I'm convinced, then, that the bullet you see above (by 465 H&H) is a Nosler Partition.

friar

p.s. On my moose hunt a friend shot a mulligan bull w/ a 300 Roy & 180gr. Partitions. Recovered one of his bullets, and it too looked exactly like 465 H&H's.

Here's a photo of a 500 grain Swift A-Frame from Midway


Here's a Nosler Partition

I guarantee that it is a Nosler Partition! These heavy NPTs are every bit as good as Swift.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I guarantee that it is a Nosler Partition! These heavy NPTs are every bit as good as Swift.

465H&H

Well if it is a Nosler Partition...that deflects someone's past statement that they had never seen the rear shank bulge like you see with an A-Frame. I too had never seen a NP bulge...rear shank always straight.

quote:

I too had never seen a NP bulge...rear shank always straight.

Nosler moving the partition forward would lower the buckling strength of the rear section, all other things being equal. Its basic structural engineering. Euler's equation IIRC.

The partition is not so favoured in Sweden due to their having Norma on site (with their excellent Oryx) but also because the loss of the front section is thought to give rise to shrapnel which is viewed as a risk to the dog which might be quite close by.

Logical! That being said, I suspect the gilded metal shank is probably less likely to deform/bellow as much the solid copper in the Swift.

quote:

Originally posted by Brazos Jack:
Nosler moving the partition forward would lower the buckling strength of the rear section, all other things being equal. Its basic structural engineering. Euler's equation IIRC.