Looking at another trip to Masailand focusing on traditional Masailand plains game species. Last time, I stretched my .416 to do it all and it did great out to 300 yards. But over 200 yards, it is beyond what it was designed to do.

I'm looking for an extremely accurate rifle to handle the gazelle's and fringe-eared out past 300 yards. Likely from a prone or sitting position, likely using a fore end bi-pod.

I've got a Kimber Montana in .300 WM that might fit the bill if it wasn't so finicky.

I've got a Wisemann .300 WSM that might work.

However, both rifles like 180 grain bullets and if we are trying to reach out there, a lighter bullet might be better.

I can make any of these work. Anybody got a better idea? Caliber, make, model, custom builder, etc.?

Buy yourself one of those off the shelf sun MOA rifles Weatherby sells in either .338 WinMag or 340 Weatherby and just zap everything you see ot to 400 yards.

Chips:

Not real helpful.

Any other suggestions?

I would think 338 or 340 would be great for this application. if you don't like Weatherby as a brand you could do a Remington 700 in either 7 MM or 300 RUM both of those cartridges shoot flat as hell.

The .300 Win is no slouch and has a great rep as a long range cartridge. They say if you can push 180 gr bullet at 3000 fps it's a ballistic twin of a 130 gr 270 Win. 3" high at 100 is dead on at 300. Why reinvent the wheel?

I was looking in to building a sheep rifle for an upcoming hunt, but I've decided to just use my 300 Win which Charlie Sisk built for me in '05. Fucker's been shooting one holers for over 10 years.

If your WSM is not so finicky and you can get it to 3000 fps (not familiar with the WSM) that's all you'll ever need. Good luck.

My .330 Dakota did fine for me using 185 grain TTSX's at about 3200 FPS, but anything from a 6.5-06 through .300 weatherby will do fine, and if you are ready for 400, then you will find them at 100...

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Last time, I stretched my .416 to do it all and it did great out to 300 yards. But over 200 yards, it is beyond what it was designed to do.

Speak for yourself. Our 416 sends a 350TTSX at 2820fps. It's good out to 400 yards. See sight-in, two shots by two different people, 95 yards off car front.
Outside edges (not visible) touching

Any bullet with a good BC (> .4) and 2800fps will work fine in an accurate rifle out to 400 yards. While a 270 will do everything you are asking, I like more diameter in Africa, because eland and buffalo are around, and even a lion defense is part of a very rare potential landscape.

How much rifle do you really need?

Staying away from wildcats, the Remington Ultra's are an option if you really want high velocities. A good 280AI or 30-06AI may not be 'sexy' but, it will do the job if the shooter does theirs. Sure the AI's are technically a wildcat except for the 338-06AI/A-Square which saw a Weatherby run but, they are easy to work with and a solid choice for most people.

If your trying to "reach out there" a heavier bullet is definitely in the works in my world. Reaching out means BC and in the 300's you mention, the great starts at 180 grains and gets better as you go up. If your 300's don't meet your accuracy demands, anything from 6.5 up that does would fill the bill for me.
I would have not problem with 416Tanzan's rifle and load at 400 by the way.

There are a lot of combinations that would fit the bill. The .416 with a 350 TSX will do it just fine if you have shot the rifle at the ranges you might be using it and know what the drop is.
Another option might be the .375 H&H with a 235 Barnes TSX or Hornady GMX or the Cutting Edge bullet. In my .375, the 235's are running a touch over 3000 fps so they are flat shooting and still hit like a hammer. Even with the 250 Sierra Game King in the .375, moving right at 2825, it will still be flat enough to take game at the ranges you are asking it to perform at.
A .338 with a 210 Barnes TSX.
A .300 Win Mag or the .300 RUM.........I took my elk last year at 430 with a 180 gr Hornady Interlock in a .300 Win Mag. 5 steps and down.
I would think that shooting at the distances to discover exact hold over would be one of my first concerns. Once you figure out drop, any of them will perform.

I used a 300 RUM with a 6.5-20X scope. I keep a sitting model Harris bipod in my pack and used it to shoot a Tommy from the sitting position. I brought my .416 for buff; did shoot a wildebeest with it as well.

My .300 had a scope with target knobs, which comes in handy when you have to hit small targets at long range. I have pushed the range on my .416, but there are better calibers than that one, and most likely, better scopes than the ones .416's normally wear.

The last time I went to that area, I definitely had my trusty 416. However, I did something I rarely do. I took my 300 Win Mag with 200 grain bullets. It did extremely well on the various PG species often at distance. I remember whacking an oribi at 400 yards. I shot an eland with it as well but not at long distance. It performed well.

It has been a few years. I am trying to remember the bullet. I think it was Trophy Bonded Bear Claws.

Hard to beat a 300 winny with a 180 or even better a 200 grain bullet for long range. I would not go lighter. Really you should be looking at scopes you can get comfortable behind and practice a lot. I used the Trophy bonded tipped ammo recently in Africa and cannot imagine better results.

Just thinking out loud here, but I would think a .300 H&H loaded with 200gr Barnes TSX at 2900 velocity should be the perfect combo.

.338 Win Mag with either the 210 gr TTSX or 200 gr Nosler E-tip or Accubond.

Lots of good suggestions but I'll go a different route. Try 150 and 165 grain monometals in your 300's both of them. A 165 monometal like a TTSX will out penetrate the 180's you are shooting and are about the same length as a 180 they may stabilize similar to your 180's. A 150 Monometal would work as well and give you a real flat trajectory, they are also very deadly.
Monos usually are at their best when they are driven fast.

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Please feel free to keep discussing and I know a lot of folks including me will continue to read and learn, but I think I've solved my problem.

In reality it was an excuse to buy another rifle and I think that's in the works.

Thanks again.

Never look at it as an "excuse" to buy another rifle, you actually "must" have a new rifle no excuses!

300 yards? Just about any rifle will do that. I'm taking my 375 H&H to hunt Nyala out to 300 yards in April. I've shot 300 grain Barnes TSX at 2500 fps at 301 yards for a zebra in Namibia. As long as you know the exact distance and your bullet's ballistics, it's all good.

Gravity's constant, it doesn't matter if the load has 3 inches of drop or 10 inches of drop, as long as you know what the distances are.

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Hard to beat a 300 winny with a 180 or even better a 200 grain bullet for long range. I would not go lighter.

Yes, minimum .308" bore, and probably 2800fps or more if you want to shoot 300 yards without needing a rangefinder. From 300 to 500 you need a rangefinder. It's easy to be off by 50 yards or even much more.

However, for Africa one prefers bore size and bullet integrity over speed. 2800 fps handles 300 yards with a 2"/100 yard sight-in and -7" drop at 300. The 338 WinMag does that in its sleep with 225 TTSX.

Just remember that you may find yourself several miles from your second rifle, and run across a buffalo or lion while out stalking eland or wildebeest. 300's will work (with premium bullets), but 338, .366, and .375 will work better.

Frank,

You are perfectly correct in your conclusion that any rifle will do 300 yards --that is if the loose nut behind the trigger can do his job.

I generally sight my .416 Rem. Mag. dead on at 100 because at least half the shots (on buffalo primarily) are going to be shorter than that. Those shots are critical and some, I might not have a lot of time to think about.

I usually put a sticker on the cheek piece of my rifles to remind me of my drop at various ranges. I don't need to do that with my .416; it's 6 inches low at 200 and 21 inches low at 300 -- etched in my mind.

The problem is not at 200 yards, but at 300 yards and beyond, when holding in space, what does 21 inches look like?

I'll take something flatter shooting beyond 300 yards.

Tanzan:

I really do not like shooting different bullet weights in the same caliber on the same hunt. Trying to calculate the relative point of impact based upon different bullets and bullet weights addles my simple brain.

Softs and solids is complicated enough.

.375 300gr.
.416 400gr.
.450 500gr.
.470 500gr.

Simple.

I have hunted Masailand a good bit, and got by fine with a 338 Win on one hunt and with a 30-06 on another, but mostly with whatever big bore I had on hand, but like you I felt the need, right or wrong, for something a bit better..My favorite PG long range rifle is the 300 H&H with a 26 inch barrel and the 200 gr. Woodleigh or Nosler at 3000 FPS in my gun which seems to have a fast barrel as my other one gets 2900 with the same load...

If I were to pick the perfect rifle for hunting Africas Masi it would be a 300 Wby on a mod. 70 pre 64 action with a Lothar Walthar barrel. I would shoot 180 or 200 gr. Nosler partitions, whichever shot best, as fast as I could get'em going..

I personally don't care for the RUMs and such as they have too much recoil for the small gain one gets, but that's just from my standpoint of not liking self inflicted pain and noise.

Ray,

Agree with almost everything you have to say.

I've always wanted a .300 H&H, from back when I shot competition. Never got one.

As far as Maasailand, I agree that a .300 Weatherby would be ideal. I've decided on a 7mm Weatherby, which should be close to ideal.

Hope to close that deal in the next few days.

A 7 Wby is an awesome caliber for long range shooting, that 175 gr. Nosler just keeps going..It would suit me as well as a 300 Wby..

I like the 300 H&H simply because I have shot it since my youth, its a popular African caliber to this day among Africans, and Im a nut for nostalgic calibers. Same for the 404 Jefferys.

Ray,

When I shot competition, I wanted to have a match rifle built in .300 H&H. Everyone told me I was crazy. At that time we were all shooting .30-06's and .308's on the National Match Course and some guys that were shooting the Palma were shooting .300 Win. Mag. But nobody shot the .300 H&H.

I thought it would be a good compromise. I got too busy to shoot and never had the rifle built. Now everyone is shooting mouse guns.

I'm exited about the 7MM. It's the first 7MM I've ever owned. Looking forward to playing with it. Hope I don't burn the barrel before 2017.

quote:

The 338 WinMag does that in its sleep with 225 TTSX.

:-)

I have a wiseman rifle too...mine is a 375 RUM and is the most accurate rifle I own, and it might be the ugliest too, one PH that hunted with me called it the "pregnant" rifle, for its fat looking profile...I say rethink the 300 WSM, if Bill built it, I know it will shoot.

Early on, one PH called my Wiseman .416 "a bit clunky" after he handled and shot it. I tried not to take offense. But after a number of trips with the same company and several PH's, the consensus is that rifle is coming and what is the #2? I did have a bit of an argument last year about using it for another leopard. That debate ended when the cat was DRT. No one thinks it's clunky anymore.

I don't know how far, far is for you, but both my 300 WSM and 325 WSM have killed African and Mexican game out to over 500 yards. I have both mounted with Swarovski Z-5 Ballistic Turret Scopes. 180 and 200 grain accoubonds or ballistic tip bullets have worked just fine for me. The 300 WSM is a custom Canyon Creek Rifle and the 325 WSM is an MG Arms. Both are Model 70 actions.

How do you like the Z5's? I love my Z6's but the Z5's should be just as good -- are they 30mm?

I'm never going to shoot past 500 yards at a game animal.

I love the .338 Win. its my all time favorite caliber followed closely by the 300 H&H and its baby boy the 30-06, but the bottom line is there are many capable long range cartridges and one has to pick his own, just like his nose!

One thing I can't tolerate is clunky rifles, a hunting rifle stock should have all the wood one can take off of it within reason..I prefer slim and mean.. It should point fast and dead on when its shouldered, just like a 20 ga. Boss shotgun, it should shoot an inch or better (not necessary but desirable) feed and function is critical.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca: When I shot competition, I wanted to have a match rifle built in .300 H&H. Everyone told me I was crazy. At that time we were all shooting .30-06's and .308's on the National Match Course and some guys that were shooting the Palma were shooting .300 Win. Mag. But nobody shot the .300 H&H.

I got my leg points with the "mouse gun" but I had the same idea as you did about an accurate .300 H&H. So, I have one underway. The project is nearly complete. I am just waiting for it to come back from McMillan. I am not going to use it for competition but I do plan to shoot it out to 800 meters.

If you are interested, the build details are here: http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/6941025312

You just can't go wrong with the .300 H&H.

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I love the .338 Win. its my all time favorite caliber

Buy a good VX6 scope from Leupold with the CDS system for your WSM. Invest in a good range finder and hope the wind doesn't blow.

8mm Rem Mag

200 gr (13 g) Partition type 2,900 ft/s (880 m/s) 3,734 ft·lbf (5,063 J)

200 gr (13 g) Bonded 3,050 ft/s (930 m/s) 4,132 ft·lbf (5,602 J)

180 gr (12 g) Protected point 3,210 ft/s (980 m/s) 4,119 ft·lbf (5,585 J)

180 gr (12 g) Polymer tipped 3,315 ft/s (1,010 m/s) 4,394 ft·lbf (5,957 J)

220 gr (14 g) Soft Point 2,965 ft/s (904 m/s) 4,296 ft·lbf (5,825 J)

Thanks, Grenadier, and would love to see pictures upon completion.

7mm/.30/.33 Magnum. They would all work on the smaller plains game. If there is really big stuff on hte list then the .33 magnums are the answer and I like the .338 RUM, 340 Wby type of class.

Otherwise this seems like a good place ofr a .30 magnum. A 180gr bullet will do better than a lighter bullet at range. I like a 200gr in the .300 Win Mag at 2800/2850fps.

Well, I'm committed to a 7mm. Weatherby. Smallest caliber I've ever taken to Africa and smallest caliber I've ever hunted with since I was ten years old. Help me convince myself I'm not making a huge mistake.

lavaca

What is the largest game you intend to hunt?

It sounds like a great choice to me. I would shoot a 160gr to 175gr bullet of good quality and expect good results.