I'm considering this new rifle as a replacement for an old and very heavy Ruger M-77 7mm Mag. I'm considering another 7 mag but was wondering if the 280 would be an option. I am already quite happy with my deer rifles (7X57, two 308's and some others) and this new rifle would be for a possible elk (or other) hunt many years in the future. For those of you with experience, Can I make the 289 with a 150 or 160 gr bullet do enough of what the 7 Mag will do for elk? I'm not a fan of recoil, so even though my rifle would be pretty much dedicated to a rare hunt, I don't want to go up to the 300 mags. Plus, a 280 wouldn't be as rediculously overpowered for a whitetail as a 7 mag. or long-barreled.

The .280 Rem. fans will be here shortly, I'm sure, but I've always had better luck in terms of accuracy, plus at least a 200 fps. edge in velocity with the same bullets out of the 7mm Rem. Mag.

For me, the .280 had been a fussy cartridge that has always performed below my expectations, but I'll freely admit that maybe I just haven't owned the right rifle yet.

But the 7mm Rem. Mag. and I go back to 1977, and I've probably had a half-dozen rifles in this caliber that were real superstars, and only two turkeys with bad barrels/bad chambers.

AD

Well my go to deer gun is a Rem 700 in 280.I've have never shot anything but 140 grain Noslers out of the rifle.My choice for powders are Imr 4831,RL 19 or RL22.The 7MM Mag is certainly more potent as an elk round but the 280 is certainly up to the chore,just a bit slower.Kinda like comparing the 308 to the 06.
Would I take my 280 on an elk hunt?Naw that's what my 300 Weatherby is for.

If I were to buy an "elk rifle", I would NOT buy a 7mag, or a 280 for that matter. You seem to have that end of the spectrum covered.

Likewise, I am also not a fan of the 300 mags. Fine chamberings, but neither fish nor fowl. Too much for deer, and there's better for elk.

Instead, a 338 or 358 chambering would be much more appropriate as an "elk gun". My choice would be a 35Whelen or perhaps a 350Rem, in the right rifle. Both are plenty for elk at ranges to 300 yards, and are easy to shoot in a well designed rifle of an appropriate weight.

As a matter of fact, I would much rather shoot my Whelen than my 7mag. Those two rifles are about the same weight, too. JMO, Dutch.

Get yourself a Chrony.
Then get yourself the .280 with a 24"bbl.

Get yourself a Chrony

I had a chrony and the frikkin thing went PPTTHHPTHBBB!!!!
Sent it back for fixin'.
Haven't heard a word since.

I like the 7mag for elk, but you can build a very nice. light, low recoiling rifle in .280. I have a 7 1/4#, 23" bbl. .280 & get an honest 2850fps w/ 160gr NP. I have taken this rifle as backup to my .338-06 when elk.deer combo hunting & wouldn't hesitate to use it for elk out to about 250yds or so. You could move up to a 175gr @ 2700fps & I'm sure that you could shoot just about end to end on an elk. Mine loves IMR7828 under just about any 160gr bullet, but I like the NP for the possible elk.

You want a powerful cartridge, a light rifle and little recoil! I suppose we all do.

You might consider small but effective improvements. If your Ruger shoots ok now I will make a suggestion that you up grade it. As you know if you trade guns you loose some on every transaction.

A Bansner type cored synthetic stock will cut a half pound off and improve the balance. A Decelerator type pad will reduce the felt recoil and you are not giving up any power.

If your scope is a heavy one some ounces could be saved there to. What kind of scope are you using?

On the other hand if your fed up with the Ruger buy a Kimber 8400 Montana. It will weigh less than a 308.

I would go with the .280, although as has been stated there is not a heck of a lot of difference between it and the 7x57/.308 as far as terminal performance. I have always used the slightly heavier bullets in my Sako .280. Usually 150 grain Partitions or 160 grain Grand Slams. I did take one antelope with the 140 grain Hot Cor and one deer with a 145 grain Grand Slam.

I have a .35 Whelen and would use it if specifically elk hunting. I would have no qualms about using the .280 on elk, I just have some other rifles that I would reach for first.

If a .280 Rem. is loaded to the same pressure from the same length barrel with the appropriate powders, it will get within 50-75fps of the 7mm Mag with similar bullets.

All this with considerably less powder and muzzle blast.

The increased load density of the 280 should lend itself to better accuracy too.

7MM REMINGTON MAGNUM



Daryl

What about the 300wsm? I have one in a really light rifle (TikkaT3) and the recoil always surprises me - it never seems much more than a 3006 or a 7mm Mag. That with premium projectiles would make a good elk cartridge.

I would prefer a 9.3x62 though or a 338 win mag although the latter will have more noise/recoil.

You could also consider Winchester's 325wsm - that would also be a good cartridge.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have shot 39 elk myself, and been in on the kill of a few hundred more, as a guide and outfitter. You DON'T need a magnum anything to kill elk. You need to shoot well. IMO a magnum is to increase your range. I have become a fan of the Kimber rifles. They are light, accurate, and the best handling and most graceful factory rifles I have owned. For the use you have described I would consider the Kimber in the 7mm or the .270, both WSM because Kimber doesn't offer a .270 or .280. The .270 loaded with 140 to 150 gr Accubond or Partition type bullets will be adequate elk medicine out to any range you are realisticly going to shoot.

I am agreement with Allen on good luck with 7mm Mag's. Two drawbacks for your use though recoil which you want minimum, and it's fussy with reduced loads ( not impossible just fussy ), which would help on your recoil. The 7mm mag pack is a pretty close pack of contenderes though. The 7mm Weatherby is a very fine cartridge also. I would have to ponder that decision closely of which one.

I have not convinced myself of the need of 280 after all these years, I know its a very good cartridgge but I would rather have a long chambered ( action ) 284 Winchester, given the choice. An improved 280 is also interesting, and no I am not buying into the matches 7mm mag velocities agruement.

Some good advice is to shoot the 7mm mags before buying something. I live in elk country and used 7mm mags are not hard to find. Those who aren't affected by recoil usually go into 30 or 338 mags, and those who are recoil shy want less kick I suppose, my best explaination why they are always availble used in my neck of the woods.

My last opnion is the 7mm Rem mag is one of the very best long range mule deer cartridges ever made, and I have seen more than one moose and caribou dropped by a 7mm Mag. And mags shine with the heavier 7mm bullets from 150-175 grs where the velocity, coupled with high BC's and SD makes these very fine rifle/cartridge combo's. I admit I have a soft spot for almost any 7mm and they have their limits but it's a rare hunting opportunity in the lower 48 a 7mm Rem mag won't be up to task at hand.

A 280Rem. will do just fine for elk. Of course,
so will your 308s or the 7mmMauser.
For a 280Rem., take a look at Remington's Mountain Rifle.

Conrad wrote:You need to shoot well. IMO a magnum is to increase your range.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm looking for. If I wasn't expecting a good chance at a 200+ yard shot, I'd just use the 30-06. I really like the 7mm caliber and I'd like to have what I'm shooting do at 200+ yds what my 7-Spanish does with 140 gr.at 80, but with a 160 gr. N.P.
Yes, it's mostly about range. I'm plenty familar with killing animals (farm and wild) and know ain't nothing running too far with a hole ripped through both lungs.

I suppose it all comes down to what 'you" want..the 7 mag is a more powerful rifle than the .280 especially with 175 gr. bullets, it shoots flatter and arrives with more authority at longer ranges and it is a better elk rifle, not saying the .280 won't kill elk, it will of course, but the 7 mag is still a better elk rifle...Personally I like the .338 for elk.

The difference between the .280 and 7 mag is indeed small.....however the difference between the .280 rifle and the 7MM Mag rifle is large.....I can get a light weight .280.....and that makes it the sure winner.....I seriously don't think there's 100'/sec difference but there's at least 1 whole pound difference.....that's the stuff to go after.

280 ackley with 150-160 grain bullets at 3100 fps. into an inch. 25 or 26 inch barrel. nuff said.

If you are not a fan of recoil, then it the 280 in a similarly weighted rile. A 7mm bullet thru the lungs is always terminal performance

Now I am a fan of 280 including AIs but...if you load a 7mag and a 280 case to the same pressure with all other things equal the mag will outrun the 280 by at least 150 to 200fps...there is that small issue of an extra 15g of powder capacity...which you are going to feel in your shoulder. The AI brings that down to 11 or 12.

I hunted alot of years with a 7mag and 7wby for elk. My hunting rifles where geared more for the combination hunts here in Co but now that we don't have to hunt deer in the same season as elk I'm thinking of just a deer rifle now my old 7mm express may work now. Don't get me wrong the 280 will take elk and when you look at velocity difference in the two shooting the same bullet one will retain more engery at a longer range. If 100% of your hunting is deer and your looking at many years at an elk hunt I'd get a 280 and enjoy what hunting you do you can always load up some 160 or 175 gr bullets for an elk hunt.

If you already own 7x57 and .308, I can't see a need for a .280, maybe not even a 7Mag. The 7Mag does come into its own with 175 Noslers at 2950 fps. I don't think anyone's .280 will do within 50 fps of that at any reasonable pressure. It will realistically go as fast with 175's as a .280 with 150's. You can knock down elk quite efficiently with a 160 gr 7x57 at 2700 fps if you're truly recoil shy, you have the best light recoil big game calibers already in the 7x57 and .308.

7MM MAG.

If you don't like the recoil or the velocity, load it down. It wont go the other way if you get the 280.

Although many say a 280 is close to a 7RM, if you can show me a 280 that gets 3300+ over a chrony w/ 140s and safe pressures I'd believe it but, It aint gonna happen.

Both are good carts, I would just focus on the range you intend on using the rifle. I also find that the Mags kill w/ much more authority and game animals travel shorter distances after being hit w/ the Mags versus the standards yet I have 50/50 in my Safe.

This is just like comparing the 30-06 to the 300 Winnie.

Good Luck!

Reloader

I have shot several elk with my 270 win and 130 grain bullets. With cheap ammo two shots two knock down. the third elk killed was a 200 yard pass through shot with premium bullets handloaded. The 280 is pleanty of gun.

IN a word, yes. both are perfectly suited to elk at reasonable ranges. both can match the 3000 fps with the 3000 ft pounds that is the magic for all non-dangerous big game animals in mky opinion. and at the maximum reasonable range of 400 yards, both retain 1000 foot pounds. no one can say one is better or worse FOR YOU, cause they aint you.

But watch all these self-serving mywayistheonlyway and youareanidiotifyoudisagreewithme types.

if you dont like recoil, stay at 3000 fps with a 140 grain nosler partition or accubond, and you can kill anything in the country at any reasonable range.

how about an' 06'? i know it isn't your question but with two 7x and a 308 you are real close to your 280 in overall choices.
the 30 will give you little to big options in an abundance of factory ammo (if your wantin'). the 7 mag makes the most sense of your 2 choices but given a shyness of recoil that heavy 7 mag your totin' now wont compare in recoil to a newer version if your lightening up.
anyway, it is always nice to have a dilema with choices.....
woofer

A WHILE BACK I HAD A WIN MODEL 70 IN 7MAG AND A REMINGTON 700. Both loaded to the point where there were pressure sighns, The 280 was never more that 40 fps behind the 7Mag. With 140 grain bullets I actually at times got higher readings with the 280. I have had five 7 Mags and 3 280's. I have now just kept one 280 and it has a 26 inch barrel. In the field the 280 and 7 Mag perform about the same when it comes to the animals it will take.

The 7mm mag.is better.Anybody who thinks the 280 will out perform it is not loading the 7mm mag. with the right stuff.You got my opinion.

I have an older Ruger 77 in 338 WM - and it is heavy - but for this caliber it is a blessing. Now a newer SS R77MKII I have in 7mm Mag - with the earlier boat paddle composite stock - is very light and handy in comparison. Now in my handloads for the 7mm I am generating 3300 with 140 gr, 3170 with 150 and 2940 with 175 gr - I believe that is about 200 fps plus better than a 280 would deliver and that is about norm for magnum vs non-magnum calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by 2manyguns:
I have an older Ruger 77 in 338 WM - and it is heavy - but for this caliber it is a blessing. Now a newer SS R77MKII I have in 7mm Mag - with the earlier boat paddle composite stock - is very light and handy in comparison. Now in my handloads for the 7mm I am generating 3300 with 140 gr, 3170 with 150 and 2940 with 175 gr - I believe that is about 200 fps plus better than a 280 would deliver and that is about norm for magnum vs non-magnum calibers.

I believe that you are quoting 280 factory MV. The 280 fctory loads are loaded to less than 58,000psi while the 7mm mag is loaded to about 73,000psi plus the 7mm Mag is usually found with a 26" barrel. I was able to get just over 3,100fps with 139gr SSTs in a 22" barrel on a 280 Mountain Rifle and I think I should be able to best that by nearly 100fps with the 280 CDL that I replaced it with, the CDL having a 24" tube. The few remaining loads I had left with Norma MRP were clocking over 3,200fps with the 24" barrel.

Alas Norma MRP is no longer readily available, but I should be able to get near that performance with RL 22.

What would the 7mm Mag be able to do with a 22" barrel and 140gr bullets?

You can't compare the two. It's like comparing the 30-06 and a 300WM. Buy the rifle that fits you the best and is light enough for you.Then hunt with it.

The 280 SAAMI pressure specs of around 55,000 PSI for the 280 are based on Remington pump in which this caliber was first released. It can be laoded substantially higher in a modern turnbolt. Then it campares very favorably with the 7 mag, less then 150 fps difference.
If recoil is an issue the 280 loaded with a premium bullet like the 140 Barnes TSX is your answer. I have shot both and my "football shoulder" can definitely tell the difference. For that reason I recently went to a Kimber Montana in 7/08. 6.5 lbs trailside. 2900+ fps with a 140 TSX. Accurate, lethal, low recoil, stainless with McMillen stock.

Have you considered a muzzle brake? I had one on a 7 mag and I could comfortably shoot 40 rounds of 168 gr Matchkings at prairie dogs without discomfort. I'm curious about the kind of accuracy you fella's are getting shooting those really fast loads. I could never get either of the 7 mags I owned to group at their best with max, or near max loads. The better of the two rifles, a Ruger, shot consistently into the .4's with the MK's, but only at a velocity of a little over 2800 fps.

quote:

I'm curious about the kind of accuracy you fella's are getting shooting those really fast loads.

Cobrad,

My 7mm RM loves max loads. w/ 160 Sierra GK BTSPs it shoots consistent .5s @ 3100 fps (66 grns R22). That same rifle shoots sub moa w/ the 140s (NBTs or ABs) at 3200 fps. My 7mm Weatherby shoots pretty well w/ 140s going 3280.

I've found that most of my rifles really shine w/ max loads. Some even like compressed loads.

Reloader

I have a 7mm RM and would not hesitate to take it elk hunting with a good 175 gr Nosler Partition load. I like loading heavy for caliber bullets for added momentum and less wind deflection.

Granted, a .338 Win Mag is a better elk round and my .375 Hoot & Holler is even more so....the question being, how big of a cannon are you willing to shoot?

Farflung

7X64 is not a 7mm mag

A 7mm rem or 7mm wby loaded with a 160 or 175 grain bullets will do a 200-300fps more than a 7X64. I prefer Norma MRP(RL 22 is a close match) for 7X64 and 7mm mag's.

PS. Rudolf Sand used a S&L in 7X61 to bag 281 different species of game

I prefer the 160 gr bullets for elk with the 7 RM. I like the combination of impact energy and velocity.

I have killed 5 elk with a .280 in a M70 Featherweight. All one shot kills. Took it to Africa for Kudu and other stuff as well. Everything was dead when it was over.

So here we go again, the old "280 equals the 7 Rem Mag" debate. Well,..the 280 will only equal the 7 Rem Mag if it will do at least 3300 with a 140 out of a 24" barrel.Actually the 7 Rem Mag that I had did 3400 but that load was a bit hot and was backed off to 3325-3350. I have a 24" 280 here now that I haven't fired yet, but I sure as hell don't expect to get 3300, never mind 3400 with a 140. My friends 22" 280 will get a 140 up to nearly 3000 before the primers get pretty flat.Another friend has a 24" 280AI that will do 3100 with a 140.
Here's something to ponder.
If we compare '06 based rounds to magnums with approximately 2.50 case lengths why is the 280 the only one that is said to "equal" it's magnum cased counter part?
The 25-06 is never regarded as equalling the 257 Weatherby, even a 257 Wtby chamber without the freebore, the 270 Win is never regarded as "equal" to the 270 Weatherby, the 30-06 is never regarded as "equal" to the 30-338/308 Norma, The 35 Whelen is never "equal" to the 358 Norma..but the 280 is always "equal" to the 7mm Rem Mag.....strange set of circumstances at work here.....must be that "magical" .050" longer base to shoulder distance :-)

It's gotta be the 7mm MAGNUM!

It's got that sexy belted case so it will feed smoother!

When loaded to the same pressure and barrel length it shoots about 1/2 an INCH flatter at 400 yards! ( When zeroed at 250 )

It only uses about 25 % more powder on average!

It only recoils about 30 to 40 % harder!

It has has only about 50% more muzzle blast!

It only goes through barrels about 50% faster!

Those facts mean nothing when you can pick up almost a half an inch flatter trajectory - AT A QUARTER OF A MILE AWAY!

LOL!