The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles I don't get the .338/06.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| I don't get the .338/06. | Login/Join |
| one of us |
I really just don't get it...why build a .338/06? Either the regular or the Ackley version.....I know several fellows who have and unless they used a longer barrel and really pushed the pressure they don't even approach the .338 WinMag in performance. And yet it is so easy to load the .338 Mag down to .338/06 performance levels. Help me out here. | ||
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| one of us |
They want a 30-06 that makes bigger holes and moves the heavier bullets at reasonable velocities, and they don't want the case belt. Plus, you can usually get one more round in the mag. As for loading down the 338, well, what good is the 338? You could get a 340 Wby and load it down. Oh wait, what good is the 340 Wby, you could get a 338-378 Wby and .....etc, etc. It all boils down to what each individual thinks is a balanced rifle, and their particualr use and viewpoint. FWIW - Dan | |||
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Moderator |
While I will readily admit a very large and strong bias for the .358" bore over the .338" (for those that haven't noticed  ) I also see the 338-06 w/ the 210 gr partition as an outstanding combo, and if I were ever to build a 338-06, it would be the only bullet I'd use in it. This really is a question of, why build a custom, when there is a factory offering that will do about the same, and then some more. I suppose the best response to that is, so what? | |||
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One of Us |
I agree with Dan. I've had a couple of 338 Win's and they were ok but they weren't rifles that really "stuck to my hands". I had them just to see what they were about, then traded them off. The main reason I like the 338-06 is that everyone and their dog and their wife doesn't have one. And just in case they all get one, I'm having mine built in the Ackley version. Maybe I'm weird to want things that are a bit different than the things others have, but that's what makes the horse races. Good Hunting, ------------------ | |||
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quote: *S* *I* *G* *H*. Shades of the 8 x 64 thread and its accompanying ignorance... Carcano | |||
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| <6.5 Guy> |
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One of Us |
I have a "thing" for the 338 Win Mag. It's a nicely balanced cartridge (bullet weight, power, case-capacity and recoil). The 338 Win Mag runs nicely with a 22" bbl. to boot. I think 225 gr. bullets are ideal in the 33's. If I want less bullet weight, I'll drop down to the 30 cal's with a 180 or 200 grainers. With 225's in the several 22" bbl'd 338 Win Mag's I've owned I get right at or just over 2,850 fps. I did have a 338-06 built and it's a nice cartridge too. With 225's (22" bbl) I was able to achieve right at 2,700 fps with H4350. That's not bad... 150 fps less than the 338 Win Mag with 11.5 grains LESS powder. My 338-06 held five cartridges... the 338 Win Mags, three. Much as I like the 338-06, I'd rather use the 338 Win Mag. Recoil isn't all that bad and the extra velocity does stretch its range a bit as well as providing a bit extra smashing power. I really doubt the 338-06's viability (if it matters to you) as a factory cartridge. I believe the 338 WSM and/or 338 SAUM will wipe it off the factory lists (currently Wby only) before it has a chance to catch on. It'll probably go back to its semi-wildcat status. Brad | |||
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Brad, OH fiddlesticks!!! My 338-06AI does the job I built it for and I'm glad my barrel doesn't have 338-SUPER-DOOPER-ULTRA-MAXIMUM-SHORT-LONG-REM-WIN-WOW-MAGNUM written on the side of it. Ol' Sarge, Spot on! -Catter ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
Really? Why do any of us pick any caliber/rifle combo? It's what you think you need or what you want. I have been hunting w/ my .338-06 for aome years & it has never let me down. Any thing in .30-06 to .375h&h would have served me as well, but I LIKE hte .338-06. That's reason enough! I've never understood the craze for the .270, go figure! [This message has been edited by fredj338 (edited 03-07-2002).] | |||
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| one of us |
Brad you're gonna love this but I'd love to have a M7 in a 338RUSM or what ever the heck they call it!! When you get off the floor from laughing or pukeing let me know what you think? "GET TO THE HILL" Dog scope it with a 4x Leo compact, I just know you're digging this! [This message has been edited by Mark R Dobrenski (edited 03-07-2002).] [This message has been edited by Mark R Dobrenski (edited 03-07-2002).] | |||
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| one of us |
By the way Brad what speed do you think a 338 RUSM would run a 210? Dog | |||
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| One of Us |
Hey Mark... Bob T. from HA (Bob338 here at Accurate) had a 338 WSM built as well as several 338 Jamisons. He was getting around 2,800 fps with 225 grainers in his 21" barrel. That's pretty darn good. Apparently, however, Winchester hasn't settled on the exact dimensions for the 338 WSM so we'll see. The 338 SAUM (if it happens) will have a little less capacity than the 338 WSM and a 30 degree shoulder vs. the 35 degree shoulder of the WSM. Actually, I really dig the short-fat stuff... I think a 338 WSM and, say, a 6.5-08 or 7mm-08 would be a great "pair"... been thinking along those lines myself! You can pick yourself up off the floor laughing at me now! Good talking to ya today... let's hook up SOON... drive safe hombre... Brad | |||
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Thanks Brad-we'll have to get after yogi this spring-break in your 300WSM. Saturday night for MRP?? "GTTH" Dog by the way what the heck is a 338 Jamison? [This message has been edited by Mark R Dobrenski (edited 03-07-2002).] | |||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: What kind of barrel length would you need to put that on the side of it? | ||
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Years back, I had a 338-06AI, based on a Rem 721 (I also had a 338 Mag and a 375 Whby mag), and wasn't trying to surpass the 338 mag. I had it built to try something new. Thats it. To try something new and interesting. The bullet this rifle liked best was the 210 Partition, going 2700+. I had a heavy sporter barrel and a Quiet Brake installed, allowing for felt recoil less then a 243. A very nice, accurate (the most accurate rifle I've ever shot to date). I traded it for a pre-64 300 H&H from my buddy, then re-sold the 300 back to him a few years later. ~~~Suluuq | |||
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| one of us |
Mark, a few years back Rick Jamison (Shooting Times writer) put together some short fat wildcats. Originally they were on the 425 Westly Richards case, then he went to the 404 Jeffry. Not a lot differant than the WSM's, and done chasing that PPC idea as well. Good, efficient rounds from the articles, but I've never used or tested one, so take it for what it's worth. Take care - Dan | |||
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Thanks Dan | |||
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Gary, I'd think about 27". You have to have that long a barrel for most of the SUPER-POOPERS anyway, right? -Catter | |||
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quote: That sure sounds interesting, Dan - but I wonder whether the rebated rim did not present feeding problems ? I just read a very interesting and substantial article by Harald Wolf about the .425 WR, in the Hatari Times No. 16 (German Edition), pp. 6-9, which pointed out this problem. He also compared the .425 WR to the older 11,2 x 60 Sch�ler; here as in many other cases (pun intended), German designs were lateron tacitly copied by US or British ammo makers (other examples are the 9 x 63 M/88 and the 10,75 x 57). Best regards, [This message has been edited by carcano91 (edited 03-07-2002).] | |||
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| <Puddle> |
.338WM = fun. .338-06 = fun+. 6mm/264WM = fun++. Get it? | ||
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Hi Carcano, I believe the rebated rim problem was why Jamison switched from the 425 WR brass to the 404 brass. And yes I believe you are right, there was a German version that was copied. - Dan | |||
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Thru some wheeling and dealing, I just picked up a custom pre 64 Model 70 done in 338-06. It will be joing some big brothers in the 338 portion of my safe - a 338 WSM and a Custom A-Square that Art did in 338-8mm Rem Mag. My question is as follows: Will I get anything more out of the 338-06 if I ream it to 40�? Or am I bettre off leaving it alone? I have a 25-06 40�, that will actually shoot into 1 hole with 100gr Bal Tips and 60gr H1000. You guys seems to be in tune to the 338-06. Your advice is appreciated. ------------------ Regards, Mark | |||
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PAW-you are one lucky dog-that's gotta be a nice piece! Wood or africa walnut (fiberglass)? "GET TO THE HILL" Dog | |||
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Mark, African Walnut?!?!?!?!? hehehehe Never heard it put that way before. Composite aramid, like a Sendaro stock. All it cost me was a NIB Marlin 1895CB. Not too bad. I'm not really a lever fan - other than the older Savage 99s. Just don't know if I should AI it or not. ------------------ Regards, Mark | |||
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| Moderator |
I would not recomend having the ackley chamber cut. For that added cost of custom dies, fireforming brass, and the cost of the work, you will see a modest increase in velocity. I'm also convinced from my personal experience with the ackley chambers that most velocity gains are achieved by folks loading to higher pressures, not due to minor increases in case capacity, or some magic improved burning efficiency. I will also add that you will likely loose the smooth feeding you have, and will require work to the feed rails, ramp and possibley follower to get it back. You already have bigger rounds that will do more then any improved chamber will, keep it the way it is and enjoy it. | |||
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| <WyomingSwede> |
Sorry but have to disagree. I built my 338-06 for three reasons. 1) As stated previously...everyone and their brother doesnt have one. 2) It hits like the hammer of Thor on game with the 225 gr and 250 gr bullets. 3) You dont need the stock surgically removed from your shoulder after firing. and I like it....swede ------------------ | ||
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| <T/Jazz> |
Db-Bill, I would have thought it would perhaps be better to have a 400 Whelen instead of the 338/06. Shooting a 350 grain bullet would be good on the bears, moose or other big stuff now verses the 250 grain 338. | ||
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one of us |
I'm new to the forum but sure am suprised by all the hoopla over a cartridge - especially this one. I expected banter over the 270 win or the "light-bullet-going-fast-vs-heavy-bullet-going-slow" debate. The 338-06 will do to elk what the 308 Win does to deer - make clean kills at modest range with tolerable recoil. Just shut up and shoot somethin'!! | |||
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I totally agree with you DB, IMHO the .338 win makes more sense any way you cut it. But each to there own !! | |||
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One of Us |
Paul - I agree the dies for the AI's cost more, most of the time. I have never experienced the AI round feeding noticeably less smoothly, though, at least with moderate bore diameter rifles in cartridges based on the '06 case. Most of my parallel experience is with various (a dozen or so) Mausers chambered for the 8mm/'06 and 8mm/'06 AI. Velocity, BTW, is not why I chose the AI versions occasionally. The principal reasons were to better burn IMR 4350 powder, and to minimize brass flow (case length changes). It was my experience (admittedly anecdotal), that the abrupt shoulder and very slightly larger case capacity of the Ackley version in that particular cartridge (the 8mm/'06) seemed to give more consistent chronographed velocities with, and more complete (cleaner) burning of, the IMR 4350 lots I was using. The same might or might not pan out in the .338/'06 as well? My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I had a point to make, but then realized that it was no more, and probably less valid than the next. Now on a more serious note, the thought occured to me that no matter which calibre one likes, 338 or 35, all are in good company when one thinks about the 9.3X62. In fact, that's the one I'm looking for when the right ol' husky comes along. | |||
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One of Us |
It is REALLY simple, if YOUR shoulder does not mind the punch from a magnum, shoot it. If it does not, like mine, a '06 version may be agreeable to your shoulder like mine w/o flinching. I would rather shoot and hit what I aim at, than miss with a little more velocity. 200's-2900 215 2790 225 2670 I believe the velocities I had in my 06 version would kill anything I needed to 400 yards about as far as I intend to shoot. Sure if one can hit, a magnum can stretch that. I never felt undergunned with my '06 version and it was nice knowing I had 5 in the gun vs 3. Not that I ever needed a 2nd shot. They all kill, ALL cartridges, it is just personal preference, so long as vitals are hit with any bullet that will destroy them. There are pros and cons either way, I just NEVER could squeeze my magnum, but no problem with my '06 with lots less powder and recoil. If only we could all shoot silencers and recoil less rifles all hunters would be fools not to use rifles of max performance for hunting i.e. a 338 Lapua or 50 browning. BTW, just ask Rich at Sierra what happened to his neck when shooting data in the Lapua! No crap! Things got shifted around. Of course he shot more than a hunter would in the field, but you get the point. Oh, I don't GET a 264 mag, a barrel burner, now the 6.5x55, another story. It all depends on application. I shoot many rounds off a bench for fun, and magnums for me just ain't fun. But that is just me. | |||
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| One of Us |
Talk about dredging up a 3 and a half plus year old tread.... But getting back on topic... I own two 338 Mags.. and one 338/06.... The 338/06 sees field time... and the 338 Mags see range time... since they are too accurate to get rid of.... the Mags also see a lot of loads with SR 4759 or Blue Dot.. loaded to the old 33 Winchester velocities.... Given a 100 fps or less MV on the 338/06 with any bullet weight ( handloads)... what do I give up? 10 yds or so of point blank range???? That sacrifice with a magazine of 5 rounds vs 3.. is a real fair trade off for me.... I can take the recoil of either.. so I don't supposedly notice any less recoil on the 338/06...When you are shooting at game, you don't think about it any way..... cheers seafire  | |||
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| one of us |
Yup, even rifles that knock the dog snot out of me on the bench when I have them in the field don't bother me. A second follow up shot if needed depends on the rifle and cartridge combo. | |||
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One of Us |
I agree with Dan also. In addition, one of my childhood heroes, Uncle Elmer Keith, developed the .333 OKH for shooting North American game, and it was a great cartridge. In fact, it is the .338"/'06 just shooting a bullet slightly smaller. So the .338/'06 is really a modern version of the .333 OKH. That's good enough for me! A perfect round for the '03 Springfield with no need for any action modifications. "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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one of us |
The only reason I got one is because the pits in my 270 barrel (whole 'nother story) were too deep to rebore to 30-06 so I went up a notch. The gun was a Sauer 200 so throwing away a barrel was not an option and I try to resist intentionally selling trash on eBay or at gunshows. Once I got it back and hunted with it I realized what a solid performer it was. I still have that barrel. I've moved on to hunting with different guns but I still think a great deal of the 338-06. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yeah Sea I was kind of amazed to see this old thread come up also, read some of the old posts I made and had to wonder...grins On a side note it is snowing here like a banchee and I am agin thinking about elk. My wife has a late elk tag, and she may just use my rifle I have aquired since this thread started. It is called Fat Bastard and it is a M70 with a 21" 3 weight Schneider on it in 338 WSM. It runs right with factory loads for a 338 (HE being the exception) and is about 100 fps behind most home brewed for each (at most). Mark D | |||
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| One of Us |
Mark: Good luck to the wife when she goes out late season Elk Hunting... Keep us posted on how the WSM does... I havent' thought much of that case as a hunting round.. but I have purchased a Savage 12 and 116 that I am looking to do some switch barrel set ups on...As a TARGET cartridge, I am looking at the WSM case for a 7mm Target barrel.... I am also looking at the WSSMs for a target barrel in 6.5 mm.... I think that with a 107 grain Sierra or a 108 Scenar might be worth playing with.... The 223 WSSM also looks kind of interesting for 75-80 grain long range target/prairie dog work... Cheers seafire | |||
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| One of Us |
Sea-its just me for sure but the only thing that remotely interests me in 223 wssm is the rifle. I for some reason or another can't get over how I like the feel of the Black Shadow. If it came in the 22/250 or Swift I'd own oen for sure. Mark D | |||
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