The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Most accurate question. 7x57 or .284 Win.?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Looking to build either a 7x57 or .284 Win. But, which is the most accurate. I sort of have a love affair with the nostalgic 7x57. But, accuracy is what counts. Please send along comments that you have experience with. Or, is the barrel maker and gun builder more critical? | ||
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I have three rifles chambered to the 7x57.  The Ruger #1 A will do 1" with ammo it likes but is a tad fussy about what goes down the barrel. The Winchester m70 Featherweight will do anywhere from .375" to 1" depending on what I run down its barrel. my custom 7x57 on an FN Mauser action will run from .375" to .75" depending on what I run through it's barrel. FWIW, the 170 gr. Sierra and 175 gr. Hornady round nose bullets are the most accurate in all three rifles. Sadly those Sierra bullets have been discontinued for some time so when my meager supply runs out, I'm screwed. The 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips have been very accurate in two rifles, mostly in the .75" range but my stif load has proven to be way too hot for the custom Mauser with tight chamner and barrel. Too illustrate the difference, when I was playing with the 175 gr. Hornady RN trying to duplicate the original early load the cartridge made it's reputaion on,the Ruger and M70 easily did the 2300 FPS of that load. That same load in the Mauser delivered a full 100 FPS higher velocity. Never had anything to do with the .284 so no help there. The 7x57 has been an easy round to load for and work with for me. I haven't had the time to do much lately but I have a supply of the 120 and 140 grain Barnes TSX to play with. Accuracy is decent in my .257 Robt. and very good in my .35 Whelen with the TSX bullets (100 and 225 gr.) so I expect good things in the 7x57. Paul B. | |||
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My wife's 7 x 57 shoots about 3/4 MOA with factory ammo in 173 gr with absolutely no alteration from the factory off the rack build. I'd call that accurate enough. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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The barrel and the gunmaker are going to impact accuracy a whole lot more than cartridge selection Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I love my Ruger No. 1 RSI in 7 x 57. I wanted a metric round to match the European style of the rifle. Like many No. 1's it's a bit finicky, but I use it for whitetail at ranges under 200 yards. It can be counted on for consistent sub-1.5" groups, though it has turned in a few far better. I do agree that the other vairables will count for much more than the cartridge selected. In theory a short fat case is more likely to produce best accuracy. It must be true, because everybody says so. Tell that to my 375 H & H that shoots 1/2" groups. | |||
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 X 2. Both will do the job. Now that the accuracy is solved let Nostalgia rule.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I read one of your post about having couple rifles build by D. Christman and both were shooters. The 250 Ackley sounded pretty nice. VFW | |||
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I've a 7x57 built on a Sako L691 Action, wears a 25' PacNor select match barrel and is bedded into a McMillan Sako Hunter stock. This thing shoots everything I have put through it to a 3/4 inch group maximum and it particularly likes 150gn Sierra GMK, 140gn Sierra GMK, 139gn Hornady Interlocks, 162gn Hornady Interlocks and 160gn Sierra GMK. It shoots these into less than .5inch 5-shot groups, and the 140gn GMKs and 139gn Interlocks into the low .2s at 100yards. It is the most accurate rifle I have, next to my 6mmBR. I would not change it for anything else in 7mm, no matter what they told me. Best wishes, Finman better have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.... | |||
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The barrel/builder are the number one factors in a rifle's accuracy. As far as what to chamber the gun for, I'd probably pick the 7x57 over the .284 Win. If you want more oomph in a 7mm than the 7x57 offers, I'd probably still skip .284 Win and go with a .280 Rem or a 7x64. | |||
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The .284 has some marginal advantages in its geometry and case construction which may make it a little easier to coax high precision target accuracy out of it as compared to the 7x57, but in terms of a hunting rifle the responders are correct: How well constructed the rifle is and of what quality components will make a great deal more difference in accuracy than the case it is chambered for. The thick head and stout brass of the .284 case allow bench shooters to run somewhat higher pressures than are wise to use in a hunting rifle. Some of the best (particularly long range) loads are not constrained by more modest pressure limits, which is why the .284, and particularly wildcats based on it, are popular in benchrest circles. For hunting, I'd prefer the 7x57 since its more tapered case feeds slickly, extracts easily, and you generally get one more round in the magazine compared to a .284. | |||
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Yes, to a point but beyond that point, accuracy of the rifle may be secondary. Sure, a good gun assembler nd a good barrel ARE more important than the cartridge chosen. BUT, the rifle's physical accuracy itself is not the whole story...how well it fits you and your style of holding, and your ability to bring it to bear on the target in field conditions are all very important if you are going to hunt with it. As evidence of that, how many folks do you know who go hunting in the woods toting 15- pound long-range benchrest rifles to stalk deer? I don't know of any who are actually hunting, rather than just sitting on a stand. That's because the hunting rifle and you are both major components of a hunting system. To function well as part of that system the rifle must have ENOUGH ACCURACY, but it doesn't need any more than that. Concentrating on mechanical accuracy can be detrimental if it forces one to accept things which do not make the hunting rifle handy and easy to use in the field and in the style in which you actually hunt. So, as everyone else has in effect told you, don't worry about the cartridge. Build yourself a rifle which works quickly, comfortably, and well in your hands, and is accurate enough. 1-1/4 MOA is usually plenty accurate for any hunting rifle one is going to carry when hunting. That will be much more effective than some clumsy, heavy, awkward, bench-queen tack-driver. | |||
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What are you going to do with it ? Hunt or target shoot ? You don't see too many 7x57's at range comps but you do see .284's, for a number of different reasons. Definantly get a 7x57 for hunting and have it throated for your projectile of choice. | |||
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 My-O-My , there certainly are a whole lot of well informed, intelligent folks posting on this thread. roger Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Thanks to all for your comments. I was initially leaning towards the 7x57 and now you only aided my decision. The 7x57 it is. | |||
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Nostalgia is about all the 7x57 has over a 284. If you gotta have a LA, might as well 280.... | |||
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Hmmmmmmmm, my most accurate rifle is a 77 Ruger tang safety I had rebarreled to 7x57 using an inexpensive F54 contour (heavy varmit style barrel) A&B barrel from Midway. I've come to expect a 4 shot 1/2-3/4"" 100 yd group with it. Did an experiement one day with the rifle. Loaded up 4 groups of 4 rounds each and only difference between the groups of ammo were the brand/type of primer. 16 shots later at 100 yd target, had about a 1/2" wide hole around 2 1/2" long. | |||
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Yes. Look at the precision of this gun builder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KICBv-0U87Y Look how precise he sets up in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aII2tbavKnM When a riflesmith builds a rifle with this type of precision, it doesn't matter what caliber you choose. You are going to get 1/4 moa if you spend enough on your barrel, action and stock to get quality products. How accurate do you want to shoot? | |||
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In essence the choice is between a relatively long, moderate shouldered cartridge case and a shorter case with a non-belted Magnum case diameter and a sharp shoulder, the latter with greater case capacity. The .284 case is beloved by bench rest and long range shooters because they believe, with justification, that short, fat cases with steep shoulders are more conducive to accuracy. However, these same cases are much more difficult to get to function correctly in repeating rifles. Since bench rest and long range target rifles are invariably single shots, this is not an issue. You will seldom, if ever, see a .284 based case on the line in an across the course match, where rapid fire is included in the program. This is where the 7mm-08 shines. I have four hunting rifles in 7X57, including one on a G33/40 action which has accompanied me to Africa, one a pre-war Model 70 Winchester by Al Biesen and one a commercial Mauser by Hoffman Arms, plus an original commercial Mauser Model S. You won't go wrong chosing this caliber in a hunting rifle. Particularly in a Mauser or Model 70, they will feed anything put into them to perfection. | |||
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Short, fat cartridges burn powder more efficiently, which contributes to accuracy. Long, tapered cartridges feed more reliably. The .284 will fit into a short action. The 7x57 needs at least a medium action. (It gets lost in long action, where a 7x64 or .280 might be a better choice). | |||
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If you do go with the 284 I would recommend a long action. I have a 6.5/284 on a short Remington action and the 140 grain bullets must be seated deep to fit in the magazine. I agree with the above statements that the barrel and builder are more important than the cartridge case. The 284 is more accurate in a bench rest situation but in the field a ten or two of an inch will make or break a shot. Mark | |||
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Never pull a reamer out of a hole unless it is turning. | |||
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The .284 will indeed fit in a short action. (That's the reason for its existance, to provide .270/.280 performance in the Model 88 Winchester lever action.) However, long heavy bullets have to be seated so deep that they reduce the powder capacity of the cartridge. Using a 7X57 in a standard (.30-'06 length)action, such as a pre-64 Model 70 Winchester, allows the overall length of the cartridge to be determined solely by the chamber throat. After all, the difference in case length between a .30-'06 and a 7X57 is only 6mm, or .244". I have owned two 7X57's built on pre-64 Winchester Model 70 actions, and both fed flawlessly. | |||
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I have had a 284 Win before and it was accurate enough, but the Remington 700 in 7x57 that I hunt with now shoots 140 grain Nosler Partition's at 2830 fps. That is enough to take whatever game roams around here. The 7x57 shoots 3/8ths of an inch at 100 yards. The 284 is a good round, but I like the 7x57 more. Free speech has been executed on the altar of political correctness. | |||
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I think if you had same gunsmith build either using same parts accuracy should be the same. 2009 I decided I wanted couple 7mm build so had 280AI/284 build and I used long action for the 284. both rifles I've used deer/elk tags. I've always like the 284 case had couple 6x284 and 6.5x284 build same as my first AI was the 7x57AI. VFW | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Most accurate question. 7x57 or .284 Win.?
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