Saw a modified 1903 30/06 at a rural gun store in Florida.

Serial number 4728809

It has a left handed stock

It has small redfield scope

It is for $750

Any info thoughts greatly appreciated.

I am interested in it but more as a hunting rifle. I would like to put a new scope and mount.


Thanks

Mike

What you saw was not a 1903; it was a 1903A3, made by Remington or Smith Corona.
I would not pay that much for a butchered one.
Send me a picture of the markings. .

Heck "D", sporterized doesn't mean butchered!

I'd have to see pictures. I have several sporters that I wouldn't let go for twice that amount.

I like sporter 1903 variants MUCH better than Mausers!

.

The gun is located 120 miles from me. Will be back up that way 11/23. I may ask the gunsmith to send me some pictures tomorrow.

It has a left hand check piece. I kind of like that. Otherwise I don’t think it has been changed much. The front sight hood is missing.

The scope mount is where I have some questions as the mount seems scope specific. The scope bell is small and barely sits above the wood. I would need a new scope mount.

I own 4141683 in very good condition.

But I want a modified/scoped one I can hunt with. I would not risk shooting And injuring an animal with iron sights.

Can i shoot regular modern factory ammo in 1903a3?

Thanks,

Mike

seein as how the 30-06 round was made specifically for that rifle and the rifle specifically for 30-06 ammo and neither one has changed in a hundred sum years,,, yeah.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
The gun is located 120 miles from me. Will be back up that way 11/23. I may ask the gunsmith to send me some pictures tomorrow.

It has a left hand check piece. I kind of like that. Otherwise I don’t think it has been changed much. The front sight hood is missing.

The scope mount is where I have some questions as the mount seems scope specific. The scope bell is small and barely sits above the wood. I would need a new scope mount.

I own 4141683 in very good condition.

But I want a modified/scoped one I can hunt with. I would not risk shooting And injuring an animal with iron sights.

Can i shoot regular modern factory ammo in 1903a3?

Thanks,

Mike

The 1903 and it's variants weren't designed for the pressure rating of modern 30-06 commercial ammunition. SAAMI raised the pressure rating for the 30-06 some years ago. I believe the ammo for the 1903's was in the 40k bracket. Yeah you could probably get away with shooting modern stuff in it, but for how long? The closest commercial rifle to a 1903 was the pre-64 Model 70 Winchester. They even had the coned breech. Not sure if the new remakes of the pre 64 Winchesters have the coned breech as I haven't looked at any of them. For strength I would prefer the later 1903A3 models Remington is a good choice.

quote:

The 1903 and it's variants weren't designed for the pressure rating of modern 30-06 commercial ammunition. SAAMI raised the pressure rating for the 30-06 some years ago. I believe the ammo for the 1903's was in the 40k bracket. Yeah you could probably get away with shooting modern stuff in it, but for how long?

Many thousands of rounds is my guess.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

The 1903 and it's variants weren't designed for the pressure rating of modern 30-06 commercial ammunition. SAAMI raised the pressure rating for the 30-06 some years ago. I believe the ammo for the 1903's was in the 40k bracket. Yeah you could probably get away with shooting modern stuff in it, but for how long?

Many thousands of rounds is my guess.

Doesn't matter what you put through yours, they weren't designed for today SAAMI pressure rating. Just like the Garand wasn't. Or the Swede 96...or a how bunch of other rifles of the old days.

Somewhere I have those serial numbers for Springfields as to safe and questionable..I will look for them.

Ok guys; this is a WW2 made, 1903A3; they were made from 8620 steel, very well heat treated. They are as strong or stronger as any rifle made. The 03A3 is safe for any modern ammo.
No need to look for your list; I have them memorized; up to 800K at SA, and 286K for Rock Island Arsenal, were made from single heat treat low carbon steel, and some are brittle. After that there were double heat treated low carbon steel; hard and tough. After that, at about 1.27 million, they were nickel steel; not hard at all, but very tough.
The 03A3 made by Remington and Smith Corona were completely different materials. They are super hard, and super strong.
And yes, once you sporterize any original 03 or A3, you have just reduced the value by half at least. I know, they did it way back when they weren't worth much.
I have a RIA made 03 receiver, cracked from one end to the other. I took it to show my boss when I worked there; he said that it was too late to file a warranty claim.

Yes the new model 70s with the claw extractor have a coned breech. Ones with the bolt face extractor have a flat face; in fact I fitted barrels to both types in the past two days.

I would say that a sporterized 03-A3 for $750 better have some fantastic wood, quality workmanship, and good aftermarket trigger and safety. If it is just drilled/tapped and put in a plain jane left hand cheek piece stock it is $350-$450 in my opinion.

Just to add, the Rock Island M1903's switched very early on from double heat treat to nickle steel; in 1918 at I think serial # 311000 or there abouts. Rock Island's records are availalable and very specific. No abouts or approx's. They say this happened at this serial on this day.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
The gun is located 120 miles from me. Will be back up that way 11/23. I may ask the gunsmith to send me some pictures tomorrow.

It has a left hand check piece. I kind of like that. Otherwise I don’t think it has been changed much. The front sight hood is missing.

The scope mount is where I have some questions as the mount seems scope specific. The scope bell is small and barely sits above the wood. I would need a new scope mount.

I own 4141683 in very good condition.

But I want a modified/scoped one I can hunt with. I would not risk shooting And injuring an animal with iron sights.

Can i shoot regular modern factory ammo in 1903a3?

Thanks,

Mike

The 1903 and it's variants weren't designed for the pressure rating of modern 30-06 commercial ammunition. SAAMI raised the pressure rating for the 30-06 some years ago. I believe the ammo for the 1903's was in the 40k bracket. Yeah you could probably get away with shooting modern stuff in it, but for how long? The closest commercial rifle to a 1903 was the pre-64 Model 70 Winchester. They even had the coned breech. Not sure if the new remakes of the pre 64 Winchesters have the coned breech as I haven't looked at any of them. For strength I would prefer the later 1903A3 models Remington is a good choice.

The new PRE64 pattern model 70s have a coned breach.

The closest commercial rifle to the Springfield may have been the Model 54

Ive seen some beautiful sporterized Springfields, and they were sold for big bucks, just like anything else it depends on the workmanship and the name of the maker..There are a lot of Springfields out there being shot with factory ammo and over many years..the A3 is one of the better ones. The Rock Island with low serial numbers is supposed to be bad, but the higher serial numbers ( I have that cut off serial numbers someplace) are good rifles as I recall the later Rock Island 1903 was double heat treated and the low numbers were single heat treat??? The American Rifleman did several test with Whites Lab. and wrote the results in their magazine at one time..

I gave you the cut off serial numbers above, for both RIA and SA. Both RIA and SA made double heat treat, and nickel steel 03s. The nickel steel is the strongest, and are actually quite soft.
The A3 was not produced at any Government Facility and are made from modern alloy steel; nothing like any previous Springfield. The A3 is the one with the peep sight on the bridge.

Just to expand a little bit on the Rock Islands. Their records are precise and available. My memory is not, as far as specific dates / serials. Their records as I stated before say this happened at this serial on this day. Some of those things are:
1. Went to Double heat treat @ 285xxx on this date
2. Went to nickle steel at a specific serial number on a specific date in 1918
3. Last complete rifle made at a specific serial number on a specific date in 1918
4. Last completed and serialed receiver again at a specific serial number on a specific date (guns were finished at Springfield
5. Last completed receiver but unserialed; there are numbers and these received Springfield serials in the 1,400,000 range along with Springfield made nickle steel receivers.
6. I do not remember if that had any unfinished receivers sent to Springfield or not.

The reason I post is Rock Island's are constantly getting bypassed as being Low Number unsafe guns and this is simply False.

Also 03-A3 are definitely strong.

If Rock Island, sn 4,7xx,xxx would be nickel, beginning at SN 3,000,001 for 03, 3,348,086 for a3

and your SN would be 1943

if Smith, all of them are a3, your sn would be 1944

so, it would be a nice rifle, depending on the level of craftman's ship

-- I believe Ackley (i could be wrong) made a cool, but complex, left-hand bolt conversion for springfields.

for the record, the springfield is my favorite action .. the roughest 1903 or a3 is slick!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I gave you the cut off serial numbers above, for both RIA and SA. Both RIA and SA made double heat treat, and nickel steel 03s. The nickel steel is the strongest, and are actually quite soft.
The A3 was not produced at any Government Facility and are made from modern alloy steel; nothing like any previous Springfield. The A3 is the one with the peep sight on the bridge.

This may be of interest to you Tom and other 1903 aficionado's.

I really like sporterized Springfields. I know it's a mortal sin to sporterize a military one nowadays, so one that's already been converted is guilt free! But $750 seems a little high relative to prices I've seen the last several years, unless it's a Sedgely or Griffin & Howe Springfield. If I liked it or if the scope on it was great, I'd still make an offer on it.

Just to better educate the masses on Rock Island M1903's. Again Rock Island has very precise records; there is no at approx ser or approx date, they are specific. I don't have the exact dates handy but they are out there.

Rock Island "High Number" Double Heat Treatment began @ Serial # 285507 in 1918.

Rock Island switched to nickle steel @ serial # 319921 in 1918.

The last complete Rock Island Rifle was 346000 in 1919.

Rock Island made completely finished receivers with Rock Island Serial numbers from 346001 - 417633 and the guns were finished @ Springfield with Springfield barrels / parts.

I don't know how many completely finished but un-serialed Rock Island receivers were sent to Springfield for completion into rifles. These received Springfield serial numbers right along with Springfield made nickle steel receivers above serial number 1275767 up into "I think" 142500 or so.

The last Springfield M1903 is believed to be 1532878, but the Rock Island made receivers at Springfield were gone long before that. "High Number" Double Heat treat Springfields are at approx over 800,000; some say 803,000 some say 806,000 until they had the process perfected. There are no Approximates @ Rock Island.

A serial number of 4.7 million can't possibly be a RIA rifle; it has to be an A3.
Also, a serial number of 3 million would not be a SA, it would be a Remington 1903; they made about 350K of them before they decided they could be simplified and cheapened; hence the A3 model. You know, stamped and welded bands and trigger guards, and two groove barrels. And the peep sight. And rougher machining.
Also, just FI, RIA museum has serial number one; it was actually issued to a soldier in WW1 and someone thought it should be sent back and it was. I spent a lot of time in the museum, (on lunch periods of course!)
Anyway, back on topic; 750 is too much if it as I envision.

I really like some of those old Springfields built by some master gunsmiths back in the day..The just ooooze class, and are slicker n snot with a polished action... I owned a dozen or two of those $14.00 Springfields sold thru the American Rifleman back in the days before the liberals went berserk and peronoid...M1 carbines and 1911s also..Uncle Sam didn't destroy guns, they sold them to the cetizens in a free country, uncontaminated by politicians.

I have an original O3A3 with matching serial numbers I bought at a gun show over 40 years ago. It is a real tack driver and I wouldn’t change a thing on it.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
I like sporter 1903 variants MUCH better than Mausers!

I read this entire thread even AFTER reading this...


Anyway, I think the deal could be better understood not only seeing the quality of the work but also knowing what the scope is as many of the classic scopes can easily fetch half of the cost of the rifle in question which recoups much of your cost and gets you on the way to the scope and mounts that you would prefer.

quote:

Originally posted by drongo:
I have an original O3A3 with matching serial numbers

I didn't think 03A3 had more then one serial number on them and that is on the receiver.

But then my small example of the 10 03s and 03A3 I have owned could just be strange.

It was a European practice of putting serial numbers on all parts not and American one.

The first firearm that I sporterized was a Remington-produced 03A3 with a 4 million SN. That was back in the 1970s and I still have the rifle. It has a 2-groove barrel, dated 9-43, with the "flaming bomb" ordnance stamp. I bought a stock from Fajen and a checkered steel buttplate and grip cap from Brownell's. A local gunsmith bent the bolt handle to clear the ocular housing of the scope. He also installed a low-swing safety and drilled & tapped the receiver for a Redfiled one-piece mount. I installed an old "long tube" 4X Leupold and later installed a Timney trigger. I like to use Hornady's sadly-discontinued 190-grain BTSP and, using IMR4831, I can get nearly 2,700 fps. That was a fun project and I'd like to do another sometime.

How long does it take to develope headspace? ONe shot can do it, its not necessarily accumulative..

I would love to have a Springfield sporter by one of the old time custom gun builders, they are beautiful, nostalgic and warm..

Well, how does the story end? Did you end up getting the rifle? How about some photos?

quote:

Originally posted by montea6b:
Well, how does the story end? Did you end up getting the rifle? How about some photos?

I passed when the general sense from the thread was it was not a great value find.

I bought a akila chassis for my blaser r8 instead

Mike

US Arms do not have serial numbers on any of the parts except the receivers. Any other numbers you see are drawing/part numbers. Unless it is a NM 03, in which case they numbered the bolts. By hand.
Anyone who sporterizes an intact 03A3 now, is converting a $1500 rifle into $500 one. Or 03 too.

I think you are overestimating the value of an “intact” 1903 Springfield rifle.

Yes, an all matching one in good shape is worth good money, but one that is mismatched parts (as in armory rebuild) and well used is not a $1500 rifle as is.

There are also lots of 1903’s that have been worked on in the past, so a sporterizing of a 1903 isn’t by itself a bad thing.

Yes, taking a mint looking piece and changing it is cutting out value- but let’s be honest, it’s not automatically “changing a $1500 rifle to a $500 one”...

I’ve brought what appears to be unfired collector grade 1903’s for less than $1000 within the last year... don’t get folks thinking they are sitting on a gold mine.

There were some excellent Springfield sporters made back in the golden era, most of which have held their value.



This one was put together by Griffin & Howe and is being offered right now by them for US$8,000.

I'd love to own it, or one like it.

But, by the same token, it would be hard for me to justify cutting up a pristine military specimen to make a custom.

G&H have a couple of nice Remington '03-A3s on sale right now for US$1,200 each.

That's a beautiful rifle. Have 2 springfields myself. Does anybody know what the 'tit' is behind the trigger inside the guard.

I believe that bit eliminates any trigger overtravel.

My 1903 Griffin & Howe sporter. It was a little banged up when I got it and I have left it that way, since I wanted a hunting rifle, not a safe queen. I don't know how many white tails it has accounted for over the years, but it's a bundle.

I have owned a few O3/03A3 "sporterized" rifles one used to able to buy them cheap 100 to 200 dollars at any gun show in the 70's and 80's.

The only one I have left is a 18" scout rifle.

It is my favorite pig rifle with 220gr round nose.

I still have two full military 03's that I should really sell.