I am toying with the idea of another "TOY".

I hear great things about the 7mm-08 but when I compare apples to apples balistics, you can get more out of the 308 with the same bullet weight, just a little mor powder.

The 308 is a pretty accurate and proven cartridge, some people say the 7mm-08 is more accurate.

I would just like a short action deer gun that I can shoot .75 MOA with.

Which would you choose and why?

I would choose the 308.Why? Because I own 3. I've wanted a 7-08 for a long time and ran across a.308 and another then a 3rd. They are similar. 7-08 may shoot flatter,little less recoil. 308 wins hands down energy wise with heavy bullets. IMHO a coin toss between the 2.

If you are looking for a deer gun I would choose the 7mm08. This caliber has proven to be excellent for whitetail deer. It is accurate, deadly on Deer and easy to shoot.
No flies on the 308, but I prefer the 7.

Actually I prefer the 7X57, but the 7mm08 is its twin.

I went thru this same decision about 3-4 years ago. I went with the 7-08 and glad I did.

quote:

but when I compare apples to apples balistics, you can get more out of the 308 with the same bullet weight, just a little mor powder.

More what? That's true if you are looking only at muzzle velocity. But the distinct advantage of 7mm bullets is that they are quite sleek. A 7mm Hornady 154 grain Interbond as a bc of .525. The Hornady .308 150 grain Interbond has a bc of .415. Why? The .308 is much shorter. At closer ranges this isn't a huge advantage but it does result in less wind drift and at longer ranges more velocity. At 7mm-08 velocities, cup and core bullets will perform excellently.

LWD

As most everyone said, they are both good rounds. I prefer the 7-08 because it is flatter shooting (but not much) and has less recoil in a mountain rifle. With the new Alliant powders you can get to with in 150 fps of the 7mm Rem Mag. I can't explain it but it seems to kill beyond what you would expect. I saw a zebra dropped with one shot @ 367 yards. And then watched the young man shoot 34 other animals with equal ease. This included 3 gemsbuck.......Tom

quote:

Originally posted by thirtycal:
I am toying with the idea of another "TOY". LOL...



I hear great things about the 7mm-08 but when I compare apples to apples balistics, you can get more out of the 308 with the same bullet weight, just a little mor powder. That's debatable

The 308 is a pretty accurate and proven cartridge, some people say the 7mm-08 is more accurate. there is no proof of this whatever.

I would just like a short action deer gun that I can shoot .75 MOA with. It's called the .260 Remington

Which would you choose and why?

Of the two you mention it's the 7-08 for me and solely for the slightly less recoil which might translate into better shooting.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by thirtycal:
I am toying with the idea of another "TOY". LOL...



I hear great things about the 7mm-08 but when I compare apples to apples balistics, you can get more out of the 308 with the same bullet weight, just a little mor powder. That's debatable

The 308 is a pretty accurate and proven cartridge, some people say the 7mm-08 is more accurate. there is no proof of this whatever.

I would just like a short action deer gun that I can shoot .75 MOA with. It's called the .260 Remington

Which would you choose and why?


Of the two you mention it's the 7-08 for me and solely for the slightly less recoil which might translate into better shooting.

I agree but I have a 7x57 that shoots .75".

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:

quote:

but when I compare apples to apples balistics, you can get more out of the 308 with the same bullet weight, just a little mor powder.

More what? That's true if you are looking only at muzzle velocity. But the distinct advantage of 7mm bullets is that they are quite sleek. A 7mm Hornady 154 grain Interbond as a bc of .525. The Hornady .308 150 grain Interbond has a bc of .415. Why? The .308 is much shorter. At closer ranges this isn't a huge advantage but it does result in less wind drift and at longer ranges more velocity. At 7mm-08 velocities, cup and core bullets will perform excellently.

LWD

That is all true and not only is the BC higher so is the SD which equates directly to improved terminal performance. The 7mm 150 grain bullets will perform better on game than the .308 150's.

Flip a coin - both are excellent for deer.

308 ammo appears to be easier to find at the local gun shops. If you hand load. it makes no difference.

Compare the 165gr 308 to the 140 gr grain 7-08.

Both are very accurate.

I have both...yep!!! flip a coin.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
yep!!! flip a coin.

as long as both sides of the coin say 7-08

I tend to like my 7-08 better than my .308 but I think it's the package, not the cartridge.

My 7-08 is a Kimber 84M and my .308 is a Remington 740

Of the two, I would go with a 7mm-08.

+1 for the 7-08. No particular reason other than I am not a 308 fan. I think it's a great round for the M240 or M60.

Lou

More and more, the only rifles I reach for anymore is my 7mm-08 and my .338 WM, both Savages.

The .308 I built last year has become a favorite of mine in just one year. Shoots great, better than the .75 you ask for. This is the second .308 I have killed deer with and both worked great. First .308 I had was not very accurate. It was a commercial German made Mauser it actually shot 125 grain Nosler BT's the best and I killed a white tail buck at about 50-75 yards with it before I re barreled it to a .257AI. The new one I built on a K98 action and shoots 140 Barnes X bullets and Nosler 150 grain BT's into nice little holes. I killed a big doe this year at a lasered 253 yards with the 140 grain X bullet.

Personally I would find a gun I liked in either caliber and buy it. I will admit I almost bought a Ruger Hawkeye in 7-08 this year.

I vote 308. A good/wide selection of factory ammo is easier to find if you don't handload.

quote:

some people say the 7mm-08 is more accurate.

You can find "some people" who will say anything, frequently on very flimsy evidence - if any at all.

Fact is, neither you nor the deer will ever note any difference in the field.

I have 2 7-08's, a rifle and an XP100 and 2 308 plus a couple of swap-in 308 barrels of different lengths, contours and twists.

They all shoot better than .500" groups and kill anything I point at...PERIOD. I guess the game never read the stuff on the net or they would have laughed at what I poked them with.

The constant comparison stuff is just total BS.

Both calibers have good bullets and various BC's for the different weights which means different drops. There isn't enough difference or sameness between the two to sweat for deer size game.

It's nothing but the 270 vs 7mm Express vs 30-06 arguments all over again.


Hey...You want a REAL TOY...be a man...go with the 338 Lapua or something bigger...

Luck

Thanks all. it seems general concensus is 7mm-08.

Most deer hunting I do here in NY is close range thick cover.

I have shot maybe 5 deer over 100 yds in 35 years of hunting.

I already have 3 30-06s 3 30-30s I just thought it would be easier to buy the components in .308 caliber.

I have a 270 which is almost too pretty to take in the deer woods.

Foobar I already have a 338 in win mag.

Maybe it's time for the 7mm-08.

Less powder and better bc as was stated by LWD.

Recoil doesn't bother me.

I'll really need to mull this over.

Thank you all for your input.

Have a great Holiday season.

quote:

I already have 3 30-06s 3 30-30s I just thought it would be easier to buy the components in .308 caliber.

That statement makes alot of sense.

Find the rifle you like first. If it is chambered in either cartridge, you will be happy and more than adequately armed for your stated purpose.

Now let's start talking about rifles.....

the only MEANINGFUL difference between them lies between the owner's ears.

both are fantastic hunting rounds

Well I like the Savage 16FCSS for $800 or the Ruger M77 Hawkeye All-Weather for $827.

I like the DM, Accutrigger and Acustock on the Savage.

I bought a Stevens 22-250 last year for coyotes that's a tack driver, so I would purchase another Savage product.

I like the control round feed and the 3 position saftey on the Ruger.

I would like a Win, but they do not chamber for 7mm-08.

There is also a Marlin XS7S which you can pick up for $500.

any and all sugestions are welcome.

7mm-08 is IMO the best medium range deer cartridge there is. I use a 280 Rem when hunting from a fixed stand because it adds about 50 yds to the MPBR but if I have to tote the rifle, I like the lighter 7mm-08.

The 7mm-08 I have has killed EVERY deer that it has been shot @ W/it.

This year I loaned it to a freind's 15 yr old son & he killed his 1st deer W/it.

W/140gr Noler BTs loaded to 2925fps out of a 22" bbl, it has shot more than one 3/8" group @ 100yds.

If you want an idea of the terminal performance of that load, just check out the exit wound on that young man's 1st buck shot @ about 90 yds.

You can load down your 30-06 or 338 too meat your needs.

Anyone that thinks there's any meaningful difference between the 7-08 and 308 is dreaming... yeah, I've had/have both.

If you're a handloader, either will suffice. If you shoot factory ammo only, you'd be crazy not to get a 308. 7-08 ammo isn't exactly everywhere, 308 ammo is.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Anyone that thinks <snipped> is dreaming... yeah, I've had/have both.

<snipped> If you shoot factory ammo only, you'd be crazy <snipped>

Translation:

If you don't agree with Brad then you are dreaming and crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Anyone that thinks <snipped> is dreaming... yeah, I've had/have both.

<snipped> If you shoot factory ammo only, you'd be crazy <snipped>

Translation:

If you don't agree with Brad then you are dreaming and crazy.

Actually the lack of readily available 7mm-08 ammo can be a problem in places.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Anyone that thinks <snipped> is dreaming... yeah, I've had/have both.

<snipped> If you shoot factory ammo only, you'd be crazy <snipped>

Translation:

If you don't agree with Brad then you are dreaming and crazy.

Actually the lack of readily available 7mm-08 ammo can be a problem in places.

A similar issue exists when you compare the 270 Win to the 280 Rem.

If you don't reload, the 270 ammo is readily available in most any country store while the 280, though not readily available in over the counter ammo is concerned, IMO, out-performs the 270 when reloaded to it's full potential.

I vote 7-08. Excellent deer cartridge and it seems quite a few folks use them for elk. wide selection of bullets. Compact, nimble package. Easy to reload for. And nowadays, it seems the ammo is available anywhere .308 ammo is available.
The same things can be said about the .308 but I just like the 7-08 better.

Does it kill better than the .308? Is it more accurate? I don't know. I do know when I had a .243 re-barrelled to a 7-08 back when it was still a wildcat, that Douglas barrel put the first 10 rounds ever fired in the rifle into 7/8". That sort of thing will certainly make you look with favor on a rifle.

In the hunting conditions you describe either cartridge will work fine. As a matter of fact, in any hunting conditions either cartridge will work fine. Is a deer/caribou/elk going to know the difference in .024 of diameter in a bullet? Only in your mind.
Personally I have wrestled with this for 30 years and have come down with the 308 caliber every time. Why? Because I reload and no other caliber offers the bullet selection available in 308.

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:

Translation:

If you don't agree with Brad then you are dreaming and crazy.

No translation needed... what I meant was: "Anyone that thinks there's any meaningful difference between the 7-08 and 308 is dreaming..."

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I vote 7-08. Excellent deer cartridge and it seems quite a few folks use them for elk. wide selection of bullets. Compact, nimble package. Easy to reload for. And nowadays, it seems the ammo is available anywhere .308 ammo is available.

A fellow rifle looney and I run a test every year wherever we are in Montana... we count 308 ammo and 7-08 ammo on the shelves... year in, year out the availability of 308 ammo over 7-08 works out at around 20:1 in favor of the 308... Many, many stores don't even carry 7-08.

Handloading it obviously means nothing. Actual field differences will work out to meaningless. What one can do the other will as well and anything else is just personal whim.

But whims are what keep the rifle industry afloat!

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
A fellow rifle looney and I run a test every year wherever we are in Montana... we count 308 ammo and 7-08 ammo on the shelves... year in, year out the availability of 308 ammo over 7-08 works out at around 20:1 in favor of the 308... Many, many stores don't even carry 7-08.

Handloading it obviously means nothing. Actual field differences will work out to meaningless. What one can do the other will as well and anything else is just personal whim.

But whims are what keep the rifle industry afloat!

In addition to factory ammo availablity, one might also consider cost (due to economy of scale) as well as availability / cost of factory chambered rifles. If I were interested in varmint / coyote with the possiblity of deer, I might opt for a .243. Otherwise I would stick with .308, for the reasons given above.

True... component's and factory ammo price are as cheap as it gets with the 308. 308 brass is everywhere to boot. Definitely not the case with the 7-08

That said, I really like the 7-08.

However, the 308 is the least fussy, most eager to please cartridge I've worked with of the many different rounds I've loaded for over the years... why that should be, I can't say.

Though theories abound

While there's no question that ammo is far more available and in far more places for the .308 over the 7-08, I can't ever remember making a hunting trip and having to buy ammo. It was always taken along and in several places.

I have ammo in loops on the sling. (4X) and on the gun case (10x) and inside the gun case (20X) and the most I've ever fired my rifle on any hunt was eight times using a .308 for pronghorns and deer on a meat hunt in Wyoming.

If I forgot the ammo.....I also forgot the rifle.....and it's never happened!

For this reason, I consider the "availability issue" (while real) to be quite insignificant.

If one is flying to Africa.....we have another story......and at this point in time, I'd not take a gun or ammo!...I'd borrow one from the PH or outfitter. The hassle of taking a gun and ammo on an airplane just isn't worth it to me!

I read an article in handloader magazine afew years or more ago and it was about inherent accuracy. In the article it pointed to the smaller calibers getting better group sizes.

Basically purchase which one you like and run, not much difference.

Hi Guys,

I do own a 7-08. Like it very much.
So far, it killed several red and roe deer without any problems. nearly no felt recoil, highly accurate.
Love it. especially, as it is so exotic, you nearly do not get ammunition anywhere...

Go get it ...

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
In the hunting conditions you describe either Why? Because I reload and no other caliber offers the bullet selection available in 308.

Not neccessarily true.

Some bullet makers make a wide array of 7mm bullets available.

I'm not sure if it is still so, but Sierra used to offer more choices in .284 than .308.