I tried 62 grain of R17 with the 250 TSX and accuracy was very good and the load seemed mild, unfortunately I have no chrono.

I got my initial loads for RL-17 from RealGuns, that were shot from a Ruger 23" African. Their top loads gave me FAR less than what I was getting from RL-15. They included some (or most) of the loads Ray is quoting.

So, I was about to quit on RL-17 until a very good friend urged me to keep on keeping on. I'm glad I did!! With the 286 NP I finally achieved 2546 fps with MOA accuracy at LESS pressure than I was showing from RL-15 at 100 fps LESS muzzle velocity.

Last year, I went 2 more grains, still showing LESS pressure than RL-15, and shot a nice bear with that load. It's all on my website if anyone is interested. You'll have to go back to July through September dates of 2013. Then, recently, I've written more about that in a current series on RIFLE BALLISTICS.

As already pointed out, however, we don't all load our rifles the same way, our components vary as well as our rifles. It's simply NOT valid to expect what Ray is getting from his 26" loading the way he loads his from the same weight bullet, brass, primer AND COL!!!!!!!!!!

I seat my bullets in any rifle to MAX allowed by the magazine, if a magazine rifle. For a single shot I load just off the lands, as examples.

The COL for my T3 TIKKA in 9.3 X 62 is 3.37" for most loads, 3.36" for some and 3.38" for others. For the 286 NP it's 3.37". THAT can make a HUGE difference compared to 3.29", for example, as to psi and how many grains of RL-17 you can get by with.

My load is compressed, but I could still use 1 or 2 grains more. And, as a matter of fact, I intend to try 1-grain more this coming Spring.
That doesn't mean that I'll stay with that if it works, but it will give me an idea of how far I am from max.

I've done a search, and to date I've not found any reliable data for RL-17 in the 9.3 X 62 that gives reliable psi. Quick Load may be useful as a starting point but, personally, I wouldn't trust it anymore than I'd trust what Ray says, or, if I were you, what I say.... We are individuals and load differently looking for signs of enough or too much!

Even the "books" acknowledge that when they say in effect: "Back off a couple of grains if there are signs of excess pressure", while denying that "signs" mean very much! It's like car warranties: "60,000 miles or 3 years, whichever comes first".

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I agree with Bob, and I suggested that everyone start several grains below my loads and Kocurs and work up..I usually start 10% any recommended load then may jump a grain or two to get close to where I want to be then go up one grain at a time..also the use of magnum primers can build fast pressures and the kind of brass you use can also be a definate factor..

I have just completed another 9.3x62 and will have two guns to work with RL-17, at least for a while...Its just too cold the last few weeks to do any further work..but what I am finding out so far is that I can get just a little better velocity and less pressure with RL-17 over RL-15 probably because I can get more powder in the case..

Schools still out as we have no real load data as yet, so we're all flying by the seat of our pants, but I've been doing that for years as an old wildcatter. The fact that I'm still in one piece, have all my fingers, both eyes give me some confidence to proceed. OOPS

Some Progress. I loaded 62.5g to 65g of the same RL 17 as before. Had to shoot at 50yds due to the crowded range. As I progressed through the loads, velocity increased and groups shrank.
65g gave me 2370fps and a 1/2 group. Still no signs of pressure, but the recoil was also noticeably greater. I will press on as before to approach my best load . 18 rounds from the bench was enough for a sitting. Recoil is there, but seems a bit less than my slightly lighter 338 WM.Pigs beware !

TK,
your just not getting the velocity that Daniel, Bob and I are by a long shot..You must be doing something different, maybe you have an oversize barrel or a "slow barrel" that happens...I say this because 65 grs. was absolutly max in my rifle and made it Zimbabwe legal big time. I do have a tight chamber however..??

I must get my 9.3x62 to legal standards to use it legally in Zimbabwe, and lots of Africans and other hunters are doing that by loading the 286 gr. bullets to 2525 FPS to meet the energy standards required..IMO your loads are more than suitable for even buffalo but are not up to snuff with the rest of us..check your chronograph..

So far what I see is RL-17 will give a little better velocity than RL-15, and do it at less pressure and that you can get more RL-17 in a 9.3x62 case thus increasing velocity..I am almost completeing another 9.3x62 to compare to the one I have..so I will have a 20 inch to compare with my 24 or 25 inch barrel?? need to measure it again.

Ray, do you believe older rem 9 1/2s could be the issue ?
Remember, I also had lower velocities w/ RL 15.
But, the factory Hornadys were also slow(not my primers there ).
Accuracy IS there, just not the velocity.
I understand fast/slow barrels. I have a Shilen 30-06 that is incredibly fast. Maybe I now have a slow one.
I am going to try more in smaller increments, 65.2,65.5,65.7 & 66 OR try a different primer and start again. No, I will change primers and start again .

I would use PPV brass or Lapua and fed 210 or 215 primers..I think thats what most of us are using..
PPV brass is Graff and it has considerably more powder capacity than other brass and Lapua is next followed by Norma. I only apply this statement to the 9.3x62 as I did the homework.

At 2370 FPS with a 286 your really not that far off off from the rest of us..and that will kill anything on our planet for sure.

Another thing I have noticed with the 9.3x62 is that it really responds to long tubes..I am going to go back to the 26 inch barrel on my next 9.3x62 as it duplicated the 9.3x64 with a 22 inch barrel and then some. But I would only go that long if I intended to use the 300 gr. Swifts and 320 gr. Woodleighs..and I like both bullets, so thats my next project. guess I'll peddle one of my 9.3x62s to build that one, but still more testing to do..Its warming up in Idaho this week, its 50 today, a week ago it was below zero for 7 straight days at my place.

I am using PPU brass and have the Fed primers.
Thanks for the info.

Well, a little improvement. Used all the same components and charge weights as last time, except the primer . Fed. 215 this time.
62.5g gave me 2348 fps w/ all 3 shots touching.
65g gave me 2432 fps, 3/4 in group w/ an ES of 9. Still no pressure signs.
I have not decided whether or not I'm done. May try a bit more, or not. .5g is netting 20-30 fps. Maybe 65.5g. @. 2450 fps.
Then on to my first double, 9.3x74R.
Then back to 9.3x62 w/ 250g pointy bullets.
What a ride !

You need to get 2525 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler to be African legal..Africans been doing that for years with their local powders..RL-15, H414,H380 and RL-17 will do that in most of, if not all of the 24" and 26" guns I have loaded. I am waiting for a warm day to check out my 20 inch carbine, but 2400 FPS with a 286 will kill anything.

2300 to 2350 FPS is doable with 300 gr. Swifts and quit deadly on big animals..

9.3x62s respond to 26 inch barrels btw..

quote:

You need to get 2525 FPS with a 286 gr. Nosler to be African legal.

Sounds like Zimbabwe, though I've not hunted there. In Tanzania the law cuts a little differently. The bore needs a few thousandths more diameter: 0.375".

That is correct, Zimbabwe, that just got by me.

However, in either Zim or Tanzania,in fact thoughout Africa the 9.3x62, 9.3x74 and 9.3x64 sees considerable use every year by locals and hunters from all over th world, and mostly with mild factory loads on DG, and has never been questioned as far as I know. Africans are a practical lot..Its highly recommended by every PH I have talked to over the years, I can't think of one that didn't praise it for DG.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
That is correct, Zimbabwe, that just got by me.

However, in either Zim or Tanzania,in fact thoughout Africa the 9.3x62, 9.3x74 and 9.3x64 sees considerable use every year by locals and hunters from all over th world, and mostly with mild factory loads on DG, and has never been questioned as far as I know. Africans are a practical lot..Its highly recommended by every PH I have talked to over the years, I can't think of one that didn't praise it for DG.

I've heard them say, "It's not legal," in Tanzania. Granted, its like a mild load in a 375H&H, but it won't get a DG license.

I've also heard PH's say that they've had more follow-up problems with '375' than 'over-40'-- whether accurately or not is what causes these threads to keep spinning.

A couple of months ago I double checked the legal side because we were looking for a rifle for my wife. Tikka makes a nice lefty lightweight in 9.3x62. Rather than do end runs around bureaucracy we've decided on mild loads in a 375Ruger lefty.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
That is correct, Zimbabwe, that just got by me.

However, in either Zim or Tanzania,in fact thoughout Africa the 9.3x62, 9.3x74 and 9.3x64 sees considerable use every year by locals and hunters from all over th world, and mostly with mild factory loads on DG, and has never been questioned as far as I know. Africans are a practical lot..Its highly recommended by every PH I have talked to over the years, I can't think of one that didn't praise it for DG.

I've heard them say, "It's not legal," in Tanzania. Granted, its like a mild load in a 375H&H, but it won't get a DG license.

I've also heard PH's say that they've had more follow-up problems with '375' than 'over-40'-- whether accurately or not is what causes these threads to keep spinning.
True this!

A couple of months ago I double checked the legal side because we were looking for a rifle for my wife. Tikka makes a nice lefty lightweight in 9.3x62. Rather than do end runs around bureaucracy we've decided on mild loads in a 375Ruger lefty.

Comment noted in red following the bolded text.

quote:

I've also heard PH's say that they've had more follow-up problems with '375' than 'over-40'-- whether accurately or not is what causes these threads to keep spinning.

True this!

Here is what one safari company lists for African law by country, TZ and south.:

Minimum Calibers for Africa

We are often asked often to recommend a particular caliber for Africa. Aside from personal preference several countries have laws requiring minimums for certain species.
Below is a list of minimums by country.

Minimum Equipment Requirements for Rifle Hunting in Africa by Country

Joule = Divide Joule by 1.357 to get ft. lbs.

Zimbabwe
Class A game
Elephant, buffalo, hippo
A minimum bullet diameter of 9.2mm and energy level of 5,300 joules (3,910 ft-lbs) is required. Most outfitters consider the .375 to be a minimum

Class B game
Lion, giraffe, eland
A bullet diameter of at least 7mm (.284) and an energy level of 4,300 joules (3,170 ft-lbs) is necessary.
Most PH's will recommend a .338 mag as minimum on lion

Class C game
Leopard, crocodile, hyena, kudu, sable antelope, blue wildebeest, waterbuck, zebra, nyala, tsessebe, hartebeest, gemsbok, blesbok
A bullet diameter of at least 7mm (.284) and an energy level of 3,000 joules (2,115 ft-lbs) is necessary.

Class D game
Warthog, impala, reedbuck, bushbusk, sitatunga, jackal and animals smaller than 25 kg (56 lbs).
A bullet diameter of at least 5.56mm (.22) and an energy level of 850 joules (630 ft-lbs) is necessary.

South Africa
• Most provinces do not have a minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting. I typically recommend nothing less than .270 or equivalent
• Some provinces require a minimum of .375 caliber for dangerous or big game hunting.

Mozambique
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Mozambique. Like South Africa I would recommend nothing less than .270 or equivalent

Namibia
• Smallest caliber allowed 7 mm (.284).
• Minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity)
• Big Game
5400 Joule
(Elephant, Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, etc.)

• Large Game
2700 Joule
(Greater Kudu, Cape Eland, Oryx / Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest, Hartmann's Zebra, Burchell's Zebra, Giraffe, Sable Antelope, Roan Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, Leopard, etc.)

• Medium to Small Game
1350 Joule
(Springbok, Impala, Blesbok, Gray Duiker, Steenbok, Ostrich, Caracal, Black-Faced Impala, Red Lechwe, Damara Dik-Dik, Klipspringer, Black-Backed Jackal, Warthog, Cheetah, Nyala, Chacma Baboon, Game Birds, etc.)

Tanzania
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Tanzania is .240 caliber for any game other than dangerous game.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Tanzania is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.

Zambia
• Zambia does not have a minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting plains game and rely on common sense. Caliber in the .270 range will be well suited for some of the smaller plains game in Zambia.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .300 caliber for dangerous game such as Leopard and Lion. I would recommend .338 for lion as minimum
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting such as Elephant, Buffalo and Hippo.

I have a recommendation for those individuals and PHs who believe the 9.3 should be an approved DG caliber in all countries within Africa, “Why not collectively work to change the laws in those African countries where it is not DG legal – to make it legal?”

Then you can use it and Saeed will move it up to the Big Bores...

I’d also recommend that ya’ll work to have a legal 9.3x62 +P loading introduced – I’d recommend it have a PMax of 4331 bar/ 62817 psi so that it’d meet the 5400 Joule projectile energy to meet other country DG requirements. Of course you'll also need to have the DG Joule requirement changed to 4900 Joule so that the 9.3 DRs are legal...

Here's a nice article:

http://exclusive.multibriefs.c...mm-mauser-cartridges

Yes, Capo, countries like Tanzania, Namibia, some areas in SA, and Botswana (also .375 minimum) could all use a legal update as bullets and rifles get better.

The simpler, inexpensive solution is to get a 375Ruger and load to 3500ftlb levels.

quote:

The simpler, inexpensive solution is to get a 375Ruger and load to 3500ftlb levels.

A true but not popular statement...

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

The simpler, inexpensive solution is to get a 375Ruger and load to 3500ftlb levels.

A true but not popular statement...

I can live with that.

And maybe, if they change the laws, we can get a 9.3 when we're really old.

Africans, Americans, and about every other country have been using the 9.2x62 in all of Africa for ions, and think little of it, and they don't even try to hide it or keep it a secret. don't believe it then read Doctari book The Perfect Shot or Van der African Dangerous Game Cartridges just for starters, so my point being that changing the law won't change a thing..

I would bet that at least two or more 9.3x62, 9.3x74 doubles, or 9.3x64 show up in every safari camp in Tanzania every hunting season and certainly in Zimbabwe, all of which have Game officials in their camps.

We, as Americans, think a little different about laws, than folks do in foriegn countries, and we also are arrogant about how the mordida system works in Mexico and the bribery works in Tanzania, its a way of life there, and it seems to work quite well as a matter of fact. I was once told by a high ranking official that the only differnce in their country and mine, was they put the money on top of the table for all to see, and we sneak it under the table, unfortunatly that seems to be the case these days.

And yes, form time to time, I have used the 9.3x62 in both Zim and Tanzania and will continue to do so..

I probably should be clear that Ive been playing the pressure game for many years and when I say MAX, I mean MAX, that I will not deny..but I know where absolute MAX is, and I suspect not many do, they jump and run at the first sign of pressure, as they should if they are not sure...Once I find MAX and that's just short of losing a primer for instance, then I back off two grains as a rule, and I know then where real MAX is....Its worked for years and the worst scenario Ive had so far was a blown primer on very rare occasions and a bolt or two I had to hammer out with a rawhide hammer!! Do I recommend my method, NO unless you've played the game for years...I did blow a primer, stuck a bolt, ruined the case that blew in half, its was close, the load was a book starting load misprint many years ago..and Ive been advised of factory ammo that's blown up guns, those cases are in court as we speak..

Always go fourth with care Ive been told, but a welder mask and gloves work a hell of lot better when MAX is a concern!~ ..