Well, I sent a Remington model 721 in .300 Win Mag to Briley and they say it needs a barrel. We were gonna put a take off barrel on it but, I got to thinking, which usually results in trouble!

I already have a .300 WM in an A-Bolt, why fix the 721 with another barrel?

So I kinda decided on a 7mm Remington chambering. He says he can just put a take off barrel on the action. It's a caliber I don't have and thought it would be fun at least.


Here's the question............

Not knowing anything really about the caliber, what's the best combo of bullet and powder that you've found for long range shooting/hunting?

Checking some data, the cartridge looks like it likes the slow burning powders. I haven't looked at any bullet BC's yet............

I happen to like either the 140 or 160Accubond in front of 7828, RL22 or H4831. I have used both bullets from 7x57 velocity to 7stw on deer, hogs up to Elk and Kudu. Accurate as a BT and performs as good or better than a Part.

160 grain Partitions is by far the most popular bullet in western Canada along with RL-22.

Another question since this project hasn't even started.

I already own a .264 win mag. I think that the 7mm may be redundant if I build it since the two calibers are so close in performance.

Any suggestions on caliber changes without having to do any costly bolt or magazine work?

I own:
.300 win mag
.264 win mag
.243 wssm
.22-250

What might be fun to build based on the .300 win mag case or the belted mag case the bolt face is ready for and possibly fill a gap?

470AR
458AR
416AR
450AM
458Lott
458WM
416Taylor
375Taylor
416Ruger
375Ruger
375H&H
375AI
416RM
375Webbie
340Webbie
358STA
358NM
8mmRM
338WM

Thanks .366.

Looks like I'm stuck on the 7mm. My gunsmith doesn't have any take offs for the big bores.

I think I'll be happy with the 7mm even though it's so close to the .264. I guess it beats having 2 -.300 win mags. It'll be something to play around with.

I use 7mm rem mag. My load is 168g Berger VLD over Reloader 19.

The 7Mag and 160gr Nosler partitions are just made for each other. Try the combo with a healthy dose of H-4831.

JTEX and 30378.....

What kind of velocity are you achieving?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Here's the question............

Not knowing anything really about the caliber, what's the best combo of bullet and powder that you've found for long range shooting/hunting?

Checking some data, the cartridge looks like it likes the slow burning powders. I haven't looked at any bullet BC's yet............

they aren't really that close and the 7mm is a whole bunch more tolerant when doing load development.

I'd actually recommend against the 160
because with 160's the 7mmMag is nothing more than a noisy expensive 30-06.

The be-all end-all bullet for the 7mag is one of the premium 140's.
weather you choose the Nosler partition, the Barnes TTSX, the newer Nosler E-tip, etc you can kill anything that you should be trying to kill. with a 7mm.

160grain bullets are often insisted upon as "necissary" by people who ALSO post that "premium bullets are a waste of money"

If you want to "out perform" the 264 look up a 7mmMag will do with a 120gr

Barnes makes a 120gr TTSX....
deer bullets at varmint bullet speeds...


AD

The premiums are an absolute waste of money! Premiums are the biggest marketing gimmick in shooting. Literally good money up a wild hogs ass!! Besides what is wrong with a good 30-06? It will kill ANYTHING that goes in my skillet.

Getting 3020 out of my 7Mag but not at max.

Well since you handload, and since you are talking about a 721 which has more length than you can use in the action,, I would vote for the 7mag.
First thing is pick a good 140 grain bullet, Barnes is a good choice..
Skip right over the R 22 and head directly to R 25.
Now have your lands in your thoat set so that you are just touching them as you have just enough bullet in the neck to insure it won't come out,, and now you have something that a 264 can't touch.
As is sometimes said about horses,, its not worthy to shit in its stall.

Don't think of comparing it to the 264, now think more in lines of the 7STW.

Thanks alan and 30378........

That's kinda what I was thinking of doing with the .264 and the 7mm. It seems that I'm having problems getting the velocity I want out of the 140 gr .264 win mag bullets. I thought I would load a 120 to 130 grain bullet for the .264, get great velocity and with the 7mm load 150's or, like you say, the 140's.

That way I can "separate" the two calibers a little bit and both will have "varmint bullet speeds with the deer bullet"

I should be able to get 33-3400 fps with the .264.

What will the 7mm do with the 140-150's?

If you set it up like I mentioned it will push the heck out of 3400 with the 140's

Can't wait to see how it works out.

Thanks for the help gentlemen!

My go to deer rifle is a Tikka T-3 in 7mm Rem. Mag. It shots 160 grain Partitions very well. I reload it with IMR-4350 The bullets have worked great for me on North American and African animals.

Greg

rcamuglia:

Here is a somewhat off-topic curiosity question. Is the 721 with the 300WM barrel factory original? Just curious, because my feeble mind recalls that the 300WM was intorduced in '63, and Remingtion introduced the M700 (which replaced the 721) in '62. Sooo, if you have an original 721 in 300WM, it would have to be a pretty rare bird...

Great question olarmy,

You obviously know your stuff.

No, it is not original. It was an old gun chambered for 30-06 that was a hand-me-down from my father. As a kid (20), I thought that the '06 didn't have the ballistics the .300 did so I had it rechambered.

Please don't tell me I screwed up 25 years ago and ruined a rare piece! The '06!

Nope you didn't, they are rather common, in fact I own two.
Personally I love the old 721, and both 06's are truly shooters.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Thanks .366.

Looks like I'm stuck on the 7mm. My gunsmith doesn't have any take offs for the big bores.

I think I'll be happy with the 7mm even though it's so close to the .264. I guess it beats having 2 -.300 win mags. It'll be something to play around with.

How a bout the 7mm STW? The bullets fired have a really short flight time!

quote:

..If you want to "out perform" the 264 look up a 7mmMag will do with a 120gr

Barnes makes a 120gr TTSX....
deer bullets at varmint bullet speeds...
AD

Actually,.25/06 85gn momometals are deer bullets at varmint Bullet speeds. http://www.gsgroup.co.za/galStagNZ.html

7mmMag 120gn monometals are Elk bullets at varmint bullet speeds...

The STW is a GREAT idea!

Will I have any problem finding brass or dies?

Nope, no problem whatsoever.

The smith's working on it.

Check out the 'Buyer's Remorse' post on the small caliber forum. I just saw on the net an article about the 7 STW which included the whole STW family........

I think I should have gone with the 6.5 STW instead of the .264 win.......

Look at the amount of powder you must burn to really beat the 7mm Rem. Mag.. Barrel life also..I own both ..The STW will make the lighter weight bullets scream..
H-1000 is a good powder in both..
AK

If the take off barrel is 26 inches long you might go 7mmSTW.
I personanly don't see any disadvatage to using a 160 grain bullet in the 7 MAG.
My stw and my buddies &mm REM seem to love the accubond.
I have had best luck with RL-22, in the 7 mag. The stw seems to like H-1000.
Nothing wrong with the 140 grain bullets either , but I can't see what they do better than the 160s
You mention long range. That means different things to different people.
To me any thing longer than .350 Yards is getting out there.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Thanks alan and 30378........

That's kinda what I was thinking of doing with the .264 and the 7mm. It seems that I'm having problems getting the velocity I want out of the 140 gr .264 win mag bullets. I thought I would load a 120 to 130 grain bullet for the .264, get great velocity and with the 7mm load 150's or, like you say, the 140's.

That way I can "separate" the two calibers a little bit and both will have "varmint bullet speeds with the deer bullet"

I should be able to get 33-3400 fps with the .264.

What will the 7mm do with the 140-150's?

During load development I had three different propellants (RL19, RL22 and IMR4350that would drive a 140gr Nosler partition to 3300+ out of my 26" Hart 7Mag barrel.
Expect ~100fps slower with the 150's (But with different propellants)

The 120's? I haven't bought any TTSX 120gr bullets yet, but I was "tickling" 3600fps
with acceptable accuracy (2.25-2.75@200)
with the "junk" scope I have on the rifle
with either the Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip or the 120gr UNtipped TSX and about 50fps slower
with those old unbanded X-BT's

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

..If you want to "out perform" the 264 look up a 7mmMag will do with a 120gr

Barnes makes a 120gr TTSX....
deer bullets at varmint bullet speeds...
AD

Actually,.25/06 85gn momometals are deer bullets at varmint Bullet speeds. http://www.gsgroup.co.za/galStagNZ.html

7mmMag 120gn monometals are Elk bullets at varmint bullet speeds...

I've been bawled out for advocating 100gr partitions as all that's needed from a 25-06 for deer, because one of the resident "Heavy Bullet Mafia" believed the 25-06 was only a "Game cartridge" when loaded with 120's

Personally I don't see the point of a 120gr bullet in a 25 as people don't normally buy a hotrod like a 25-06 to shoot bullets at 2900fps.

I can say that none of the deer shot with 100fps
did any meaningful controlled motion after being struck and only one of them moved at all
and that one was in the act of jumping over a fence when my carfully aimed and planned shot
(but less lucky than one witness claimed)
hit the retreating deer in the back of the head.

Contrary to the arguements proposed against me was the argument that "exit holes were necissary" two others were both body shots angling towards and neither bullet was recovered
as they wound up somewhere past the deer.


I will note that Barnes makes two TTSX bullets in 25cal and the HEAVIER one is a 100gr.

I'm not sure I'd chose the light one for mulies, for whitetails or Antelope it'd be my choice.

I don't believe there is a deer ever born that a 7mm 120gr TTSX launched at an initial speed of 3500+ would not lay low in it's foot prints provided the bullet finds the boiler room.

I didn't want to go that far about Elk as I wouldn't personally carry a 25-cal-anything if shooting an elk was in the range of possibilities. others may, others have certainly done so sucessfully, I choose not to.

Frankly IF I KNEW I was going to see an elk I'd almost rather have my 30-06 than my 7mmMag, because what my 30-06 can do with 165's is very confidence inspiring...

AD

A 140 gr at 3000 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Well, I sent a Remington model 721 in .300 Win Mag to Briley and they say it needs a barrel. We were gonna put a take off barrel on it but, I got to thinking, which usually results in trouble!

I already have a .300 WM in an A-Bolt, why fix the 721 with another barrel?

So I kinda decided on a 7mm Remington chambering. He says he can just put a take off barrel on the action. It's a caliber I don't have and thought it would be fun at least.


Here's the question............

Not knowing anything really about the caliber, what's the best combo of bullet and powder that you've found for long range shooting/hunting?

Checking some data, the cartridge looks like it likes the slow burning powders. I haven't looked at any bullet BC's yet............

My choice here is the 175-grain Nosler Partition bullet with 70 grains of IMR 7828 in a Ruger No. 1B. 3050 FPS MV from the 26" barrel. Good expansion at long ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Another question since this project hasn't even started.

I already own a .264 win mag. I think that the 7mm may be redundant if I build it since the two calibers are so close in performance.

Any suggestions on caliber changes without having to do any costly bolt or magazine work?

I own:
.300 win mag
.264 win mag
.243 wssm
.22-250

What might be fun to build based on the .300 win mag case or the belted mag case the bolt face is ready for and possibly fill a gap?

How about a .338 Win.?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
The STW is a GREAT idea!

Maybe or maybe not. If your 721 is a converted .30-06, then my guess is that it has the shorter magazine -- about 3.3" or so, as compared to the magazine that came on the "magnum" actions of around 3.6". If this is correct, then you'll have to find a magnum magazine box and follower (and perhaps modify the bolt stop) in order to chamber the longer 7mm STW. Besides, if your goal is to minimize costs by simply screwing on a take-off barrel, rechamering that barrel will add some bit of cost to the job.

Yes, the idea was not to have to do any magazine or other work, just rebarrel. I'll have to check the mag length

Thanks for the heads up

Thanks for the input El Deguello,

I don't think my smith has any barrels for the bigger bores. I had that in mind as well, the .338.

If he happens to have one and since I have the .264, I think it would be great.

since you are still in the cogitating stage : ...

There is also the 308 Norma Magnum. Almost exactly the same ballistically, of course, as your 300WM, but still differenct and more "cool"...

Don't you love all the "help" you get from us?

Thanks olarmy,

My life is the quest for "cool!"

The help is appreciated. I'm learning a lot from all you's guys!

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
The premiums are an absolute waste of money! Premiums are the biggest marketing gimmick in shooting.

How many guns do you own? Please don't say more than 20 after posting the above on premium bullets. I own 1 rifle for everything and can afford to shoot premium bullets.

Assuming you sell 1 for $500, you can afford to buy yourself 12 boxes of premium bullets. That should easily last you 20 years of hunting.

I believe the 7mm Rem. Magnum is one of the best hunting calibers out there. It has better trajectory than the .270 for mule deer yet can be loaded to outperform the 30/06. Contrary to what people may think or say, full power loads with a 175 grain 7mm will best 180 grain 30/06 loads by almost 200 fps. That is significant to me but not why I would choose the 7mm over the 30/06. The reason I would choose the 7mm over the 30/06 is because it allows me to shoot the 120-140 bullets for long range antelope or mule deer. The 30/06 can't do this nearly as well.

The only thing a 30/06 has on the 7mm is the ability to shoot 220 grain bullets. That does not impress me nor interest me. The 30/06 is not powerful enough to properly shoot those bullets.

Concerning powder for the 7mm? I would go with RL 22 and buy yourself a Lee Factory Crimp Die. This will greatly make uniform, your pressure curves and allow powder selection be much less critical.

I would also start with the 140 grain Barnes TTSX and see how accurate it is. You should be able to get at least 3/4 MOA.

Many people say to use whatever bullet flys best but that depends how much better it flys. I can get 1/3 MOA using the TSX 160's in my 7mm but am going to try the TTSX 140 this fall. If I can get the 140 to 3/4 MOA then I will still use it. Unless the 140 or 150 TTSX are grossly inaccurate(1.5 MOA) then I will fall back on the 160 TSX which does .377 in my rifle.

Yes, I consider 1.5 MOA inaccurate for long range mule deer at 400 yards. If I don't get an elk this fall that means relying a anterless mule deer does to fill the freezer. I could shoot 4 of them last year and I hope they keep the same rules this year.

I'm rarely amused by people who talk down "premium bullets" by saying they are a waste.

I'm also never disappointed by their obvious lack of cognitive function, because by and large I EXPECT my fellow man to have the IQ of a soccerball.

What does amuse me a little is the guy who goes out and buys a $800 rifle then sinks another $1200 worth of custom gunsmithing into it THEN because it won't shoot the particular CHEAP AS DIRT 160gr bullet he wants to shoot he gets rid of it.


what's worse is thhe guy with the $2500 Blaser rifle
and the Swaro scope who's saying premium bullets are a waste.

If they're so worried about waste why didn't they buy a stevens 200?


AD

Funny posts guys.

Thanks for the input on the 7 Mag.

As for the premium bullets, that's a debate for another thread. I shoot both. I like the Accubonds in my .300 win mag but I bet just a good Sierra King or Hornady SST would probably be just as good.

Example:
The mule deer I killed this last season with my .300 win mag was shot a close range with a 180 gr Accubond. The deer was quartering away hard. The shot couldn't have been over 25 yards. The bullet entered the left side rib cage taking out 3 to 4 ribs and then just exploded inside. I recovered some pieces of jacket. The exploded pieces tried to exit up front, just forward of the right shoulder, kinda the front chest area. Looked like it was shot with a shotgun almost up front but not that many holes. Maybe 5 to 10 schrapnel holes. With the Accubond, I was expecting better weight retention, even at that range.

I also was expecting to have him DRT. Instead, when I fired and looked up, he kicked like a bronco rearward and took off running. I was stunned. He went about 75 yards and piled up. He was a tough, strong buck.

I bet just a regular bullet would have done just as well. And the fact is at longer ranges, you want a bullet that will expand at the lower velocities at those ranges and the regular bullets are better at that.

I know, I'm a pot-stirrer...........

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
I'm rarely amused by people who talk down "premium bullets" by saying they are a waste.

I'm also never disappointed by their obvious lack of cognitive function, because by and large I EXPECT my fellow man to have the IQ of a soccerball. AD

So why do you spend/waste your time and superior intellect having discourse with us morons with soccer ball IQ's?